Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by 360, Jan 5, 2015.
Put your money where your mouth is then.
I want to play it
What does Sonic 4 have in Sonic's moveset that is so special? The basic jump, roll, and spindash are 2D Sonic staples, and the homing attack was added to the 2D gameplay starting from Advance 2 and onwards. Even when factoring in the co-op moves of Episode II, the only thing that's new is having Tails swim for Sonic. Flying was done in Sonic 3 and Advance 3, and the Rolling Combo (which, for the record, can go fuck itself) is largely a rolling-based variant of the boost that was amazingly more overpowered.
I do think Sonic 4 had some good concepts and I liked some of the music compositions, but otherwise I'd say the rest of the game is largely unsalvageable like Sonic 06.
This would be the part where I throw up a really poorly redone edit of Esrael's Sonic 2 Delta, but the rom file is acting up. Which is weird because it's worked fine and I've not messed with it in years.
Also pesky things called copyrights now actually being enforced or something.
Quite. That's exactly why I liked it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but up till now this has been Sega's only proper attempt at using Sonic's basic moveset for 2D modern Sonic (the Advance-series excepted, since they were handheld-only). When compared to 2D gameplay in more recent Sonic games I feel like this could have been a good starting point for developing more toned down controls without relying on his ability to boost. At least when it comes to how Sonic controls in 2D sections. But that's probably another story.
Wait really, have any fan projects been taken down recently?
No, no. That's not happening. They're as safe as ever in their "they're being allowed to exist" way. I just don't want to throw a rom out in the open to some shitty work I did 10 years ago by just messing around with ESEII. :v:
Also because I'm lazy and can't be bother to upload it.
Do you guys think there's a chance that these games (Sonic 4 episode 1, Sonic 06, etc.) would ever have their physics updated and properly re-released?
In Sonic 4's case, I think it would be cool if they updated Episode 1 to bring its physics in line with Episode 2, packaged them together as one game and re-released it. Think it could happen?
Nope. There's no point. There's no money in updating years-old games for anything besides making them available on other platforms when necessary. The amount of effort of hiring people to actually go in and change the game isn't worth the hassle or the money.
But such re-releases would mean that SEGA fucked up in the first place, and they would never admit to that. They can do no wrong! :v:
They may not have to hire new people. I don't mean rewriting the games from scratch... In certain cases it could be that just some physics tweaks and QA / bug testing is all that is needed.
It really isn't that simple. You also have to consider the negative PR most of those games have.
Unlike '06, mere physics and bugfix wont help Ep 1.
Even if it were 'that simple/easy', they still need to pay dozen people for the changes. Even more so, they 'knew' after the first game that physics need to be changed, and still got only so far. More than this, the layouts would need to change to accomodate as well. If I remember correctly, in an interview they said episode Metal's zones had different layout because the physics no longer worked there.
I'd rather have a PC/Console release of any other 2D Sonic game, especially the handheld Nintendo ones like Advance, DS, Colours, Generations and so on.
Sonic '06 has far more problems than just physics and bugs. If they'd want to make it a good game, they'd have to change the controls, art direction, level design, hubs, story etc.
So basically make a completely new game. :specialed:
Why would you even do this over making a new game?
I'd rather just see a "Sonic 4 Classic" done by a competent developer, or better yet, a new line of 2D Sonic games. If the Sonic 4 name can't have a good game attached to it, then just let the Genesis trilogy be and pull a Rayman Origins instead.
Rayman Origins/Legends are amazingly good examples. The best games the franchise has ever seen released decades after the franchise was first created demonstrating that it is possible to revive a franchise like that and create stunning, series-defining games regardless of how much time has passed since the series was first incarnated. The difference though is that Michael Ancel (Rayman's creator) and his wonderful team were still at Ubisoft when they made those games so much of the design and ambition must have come from him. Sonic in comparison has lost all of its original creators and designers (Yuji Naka being the most notable departure) so there's a chance that this is affecting the quality of Sonic games moving forward. I saw a documentary on Yuji Naka/Sonic Team circa the Sonic Adventure 2 era and you could tell that he and his team really, genuinely gave a damn about the franchise and were actively driven to make amazing games. There's a scene where the Sonic Team members have beds setup in special rooms named after the Sonic series' main characters so members of the team could sleep at the office overnight during development.
Something tells me the ethos at Sonic Team might have changed since then. They still have the power to make amazing games though and hopefully we'll see one soon.
On that train of thought, look at Nintendo - Miyamoto is still spearheading many of the franchises he created, and his passion and dedication shows in each of them. This is even more evident when you look at Starfox and the sudden decline in quality once they started licensing Starfox games to other companies (which makes me all the more excited at the fact that Miyamoto is back at the helm with whatever Starfox game they're working on for the Wii U). And let's not forget that time Nintendo let Phillips make a few games, and how the Mega Man series has virtually flatlined after Inafune's departure...
You can do amazing things if you have a team who is head-over-heels about the game they're working on and have an intimidate understanding of the experience they want to craft. They'll know exactly what needs to be done, who they need to hire and what they need to invest money into in order to make their vision happen. That's why there's been so many fantastic indie games these past few years. Passion, yo.
It's unfortunate that, unlike Ancel and Miyamoto (though they may indeed still feel franchise fatigue to be sure), Naka, Oshima and the other original team members, at least to my knowledge, have no interest in doing anything with Sonic even if they were still part of Sega.
And I think that, at the very least, Iizuka does have passion for the franchise. But I don't think passion is the problem. It probably just comes down to practical issues like budgets and deadlines, and fatigue among the team members. It's been made abundantly clear that the corporate heads of Sega of Japan are some of the most inept businessmen in history who don't know the first thing about fully tapping into the appeal of their products, probably because most of the appeal lies in Western territories that for some reason or another they seem to have nothing but disdain for. If not disdain, at the very least disinterest.
Huh, kinda wish we had gotten a Death Egg II conclusion, but I guess we really will have to use Sonic the Fighters as a makeshift conclusion to Sonic 4's story.
Part of me would like it if Sonic 4 was wrapped up in an entirely new future game, wherein Sonic returns to the abandoned, Death Eggified Little Planet.
The other part of me wants to see Sonic 4 forgotten.
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