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Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimpo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. LockOnRommy11

    LockOnRommy11

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    Kogen, as far as I'm aware, Generations 3DS is set AFTER Sonic Generations (console). He learns the attack at the end of the first game and it carries over to the second.

    Also, seriously, what the hell is up with that sig? NSFW.
     
  2. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    Sonic Generations 3DS is supposed to be the same sort of canon as Sonic Colors DS: an alternate take on the main story. They share the same basic plot and carry over the same beats, but there is room for differences, such as Sonic Colors on the DS having numerous characters show up in Side Missions. The basic line of thought is that the events of the console versions trump the handheld ones. You could say they're in a parallel universe or something, but you don't have to worry about the storyline having some effect on Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

    As for the game itself...I did imply my position on the front page of Retro, but I can reiterate things here in a more candid form. Ken Balough does seem to contradict himself by saying that Episode 2 is meant to have a new graphics and physics engine, yet they're going off what they already had established in Episode 1. What that tells me is that they didn't make a new one but updated what they already had, tweaking aspects to make things supposedly look and feel better. It would be nice if we had something more concrete to see, though, because there is no reason for the advertising of this game to be played out in exactly the same way. You could have shown ten seconds worth of footage and still been all mysterious about what was to come.

    I have a bad feeling that while it might be nicer than the first, that it is still going to be a bad game. It is still being done by the same group of people, using the same tools they had before. It is just going to be rehashed once more, and we're all going to be stuck dealing with it. Sonic 4 has so far been mediocre, and even if Episode II is better, we still have the mediocrity of Episode 1, and unless they plan on extensively reworking that first game, we're not going to get what we should, in terms of a solid Sonic the Hedgehog title.

    And of course, they're going to force themselves to make it all standalone. That means that if they come out with a third episode (which they assuredly will), that is going to be stand alone as well. Linking them together is not going to form a cohesive game like Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Instead, we will get a mishmash of recycled ideas and concepts that will get more than stale by the time we're knee deep in Episode 3.
     
  3. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    Here's some observations I've made.

    Ep 1. Generally disliked and ridiculed for poor music quality, clunky controls, and ugly level tiles. Had a months and months of media hype, social network trending, and contests. Details scant right up until launch.

    Generations. Virtually came out of nowhere. Previews given almost to a fault, at least 5 major levels revealed long before release. Generally well liked and seen as a resurgence of the Sonic franchise.

    So, what did we learn? The most hype, the more tripe. If you'd like to know ahead of time how much this game will or won't suck, just keep an eye on the PR machine.
     
  4. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    You could say that really, Generations gained more hype via more exposure; Sonic 4's marketing downfall was how they built their hype-- namely, by leaving the actual game completely veiled, which is never a good idea. If you can't sell a game by its merits alone, then you may need to begin considering what can be done to make that possible.

    In the end, the marketing had nothing to do with it; fans weren't let down by Sonic 4 because of it's marketing campaign, but because of the fact that we had waited 16 years for a Sonic 4, and it was a clear and obvious step-down from it's predecessor, and worse, a mediocre product in and of itself.

    Generations, on the other hand, was a clear and obvious improvement over its predecessor and was a dang fun game on its own merit.

    I don't agree with them keeping this game so much in the dark again. It's not a good marketing strategy to hide the actual product to inflate it. It would be one thing if I believed that it could deserve the pedestal that they're putting it on, but this is Dimps, who's most landmark games were made 5 and 10 years ago respectively.
     
  5. Metal Man88

    Metal Man88

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    Mad does have a point, though: if they don't show much, then they could be hiding something. Or maybe they don't have much to show in the first place. Generally if you're proud of a product, you're not going to hide it in the dark forever. Alternatively... given the Sonic series, it's for the best if they show previews. That way, they can correct major bugs before it's too late (since, for whatever reason, it takes fans complaining for them to notice whenever something is seriously off physics-wise.)
     
  6. Kogen

    Kogen

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    An announcement of an announcement of a palm tree made with Silicon Graphics Computers. You would swear SEGA was still living in 1995, trying to outdo ol' Donkey Kong Country.

    I think PR may come down to the lack of staff/resources. I think Ken Blaoouugghh makes these on his own? You might not be able to blame the guy so much if SEGA of Japan is not helping him out. I do not think what he does ultimately has anything to do with Sonic 4's core development, although the idea that they have nothing good to show off is something.

    The one bit of faith I hold in Sonic 4 Episode 2 comes from how fast it seems Sonic Team have turned around with Sonic Generations' classic content. The game comes out as an awkward mess where less than half-way into development they were forced to do things right (at least make a solid attempt). I assume someone in management went out of their way to make Sonic Team do it correctly for once. Back in June of 2010 there was clearly an awareness that Sonic 4 was terrible, but it was too forgone to fix, unlike Sonic Generations. Episode 2 has been given more than a year, so there seems to be ample room for them to do something on par with Sonic G. DIMPS makes good products with other companies (everyone likes Scrub Fighter 4, right?), so they are not completely inept.
     
  7. TheLoz

    TheLoz

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCtXDkMX9Ss&feature=related

    Just thought I'd share this. Carry on.
     
  8. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    This has been shown almost 2 years ago. I still love it though.

    Anyway, one thing I constantly wonder about is these "new level tropes". Hopefully, 'new' doesn't mean slightly obscure, or some "new to the Classics" PR BS. I really want SEGA to seriously use their imaginations here for the level themes.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I have faith, I mean Sonic Colors shows they can pull some creativity out of their ass if they try hard enough.
     
  10. FuzzballFox

    FuzzballFox

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    Nothing anymore
    We need more food based levels.
    Cheese Moon Zone please. :I
     
  11. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    But even then, they had the 'Crazy Theme Park' premise to conceptually fall back upon. I just hope that they realize that any place in the Sonic Universe can be as interesting as those stages. I also really want to see stage specific gimmicks (that also adhere to the proper physics, of course), like the air propelled chute/loops from Launch Base, or the weird bouncy platform/trampoline things from Ice Cap.
     
  12. FuzzballFox

    FuzzballFox

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    Nothing anymore
    Actually now that I think about it, bring back...THE BARREL.
    Complete without instructions how to pass it!
    Time to let kids have a taste of the sweet feeling known as "how the fuck why isn't this game doing everything for me?" they have barely experienced!
     
  13. Nora Kisaragi

    Nora Kisaragi

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    I just saw the japanese "reveal" trailer for Episode 2. English with japanese subtitles?
    Oh, this is completely sad. I remember the days where Sonic games had better advertising in Japan.

    Yet now, Episode 2's "japanese" reveal is simply english with japanese subtitles, such a fall for what is supposed to be a japanese franchise.

    Oh Sonic Adventure commercials of old, how I miss thee.

    Ah, not like it matters anyway, just I figured how international advertising is being handled for this title makes it kind of apparant that Episode 2 is targeting the West primarily versus the East. And yeah, I know this is strictly talking about the advertising for the game versus the game itself, but the "advertising" is kind of the only thing we can legally discuss right now since we have barely any footage of the actual gameplay, so I figured I might touch up on Episode 2's international advertising for something to discuss in the meantime.
     
  14. Vendettagainst

    Vendettagainst

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    Sonic is more popular in English speaking countries than Japan, isn't he?
     
  15. Nora Kisaragi

    Nora Kisaragi

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    Yeah, Sonic was created with the west in mind, Yuji Naka confirmed this a handful of times, yet Sonic Team and their marketing still catered to Japan. For instance, back in the old days, in the West Sonic was marketed as a "blue dude with an attitude", remember that? The sonic that doesn't exist anymore? Yeah, well, in Japan Sonic wasn't a "blue dude with an attitude" but rather the good guy that's still strong and fights for what's right. Or something like that. It's all on the retro wiki. When Sonic Adventure games came out, this divide was kept with eastern advertising that contrasted greatly with the western advertising. In the West, SA commercials were heavy, dramatic, and hardcore, while as we know, the japanese commercials for SA were far more lightheaded, poking fun at the dude even. Sonic Generations even came out with a subtitle in Japan, being called "Sonic Generation: White, Time, and Space", there has always been a divide in sonic games in West/East, the Sonic CD soundtrack only being a small part of a bigger picture. The western/eastern Sonics used to be two completely different Sonics. With entirely different canons, I might add. Robotnik is only a small piece of that canonical difference. For more info on the canonical difference, you should look up Tails Adventure, the plot is entirely different if you're looking at the west versus the east.

    With Episode 2, it seems the marketing approach is to now spoonfeed Sonic's Eastern Fans with Western ads, which may alienate their hardcore fans in the East that regularly place on top of the leaderboards as far as time attacks go. But even moreso, it seems a morbid confirmation that E2 is clearly targeting the Western culture, even in the East. It's a cultural issue. How much that will effect this game is not yet seen. That's about all I can say on the matter.

    (just a note, I probably tripped up somewhere on my factchecking here, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I'm not an elite sonic follower like some of yall, lol.)
     
  16. Inb4 Sonic The Hedgehog 5!, and Inb4 EPIII's reveal being the same as I and II. I first thought the 'reveal trailer' was a joke, a well done one, but then I realized it was serious, and I lol'd. SEGA, concept art is nice and all, but don't show us pictures of trees. Show us concepts of levels, zones, bosses, big stuff. Hoping for some co-op in this, I really miss multiplayer in Sonic games, I really do :(


    Edit 1: God damn it Ken. You say we're REALLY gonna be happy? It kinda makes me laugh. He said the same thing about EP I. :|

    Edit 2: Genesis physics plz.
     
  17. FuzzballFox

    FuzzballFox

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    Nothing anymore
    You know not showing anything for a long time gets people hyped up too- look what happened to the rerelease date of Sonic CD-
     
  18. Shadow Fire

    Shadow Fire

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    I wonder if I'm the only one to notice that the trailer's subtitles are using the Kingdom Hearts Japanese font? Just putting it out there.
     
  19. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    Wait, what? explain this.

    Could be just quiescence.
     
  20. Clutch

    Clutch

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    Difference being we knew exactly what we were getting thanks to trailers that showed game play footage, Taxman being rather open about the game, existing knowledge about Sonic CD, and comprehensive video from people with early copies.

    It's "This game looks really fun and I want to play it already" versus "For Fucks sake, we still haven't got a clue what this game looks like". I know which I'd rather have.