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Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimpo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. The Taxman

    The Taxman

    Tech Member
    Retro Engine & Related Projects
    Super Sonic is only hard to control in the classic games if you use debug mode in Oil Ocean to unlock Amphetamine Sonic :v:
  2. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    I find EP2 Super Sonic easier to control. I think he could have less momentum but not "drop like a rock".
  3. JaxTH


    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    I remember that being called the Hyper Sonic cheat. And if you were regular Sonic it was called Super Sonic.
  4. Guess Who

    Guess Who

    It's a miracle! Oldbie
    Some little things I've noticed about Episode II.

    - When Sonic jumps, his rotational velocity (aka how fast he spins) is relative to how fast he's moving, just like the old games. In Episode I he always rotated at the same speed, which made him look and feel floatier. This combined with actually having momentum makes jumping feel way better.
    - They do some clever things with homing attack chains. Later stages use other enemies as well, not just Bubbles, and they have different ways of making you time your attacks.
    In Sky Fortress, for instance, they'll have homing chains of Cluckers and you have to time your attacks so you don't get hit by their projectiles. Oil Desert has enemies that roll balls at you, and if you try to home at them while they have their ball out, you just get hurt.
    - In Episode I, there were many times bosses looked completely vulnerable but you'd just jump right through them, like between the regular and pinch phases. In Episode II they almost always do a good job at communicating when a boss is vulnerable or not.
  5. Jace


    Just dropping something I was playing with for about an hour. I didn't do a midi of the original song because one exists, and I'm just that lazy but I could do one from the flp.

  6. JaxTH


    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    Anyone know how to play as Tails? :p NEVERMIND.

    EDIT: Jace, that is really sexy.
  7. Not too sure why there's spoiler tags in this. But hey ho.

    This is fantastic. As odd as it sounds, it's an extended mix, but do you have happen to have anything that's compact and quite "heavy"? I'd love to use this as a ringtone or alarm on my phone. :D
  8. Blivsey


    Charismatic Sonicaholic Member
    I'm optimistic by default, so I'm hoping for a change, but I can't help but feel like they won't bother. Not because they think it's an accurate representation, but because the programmers probably just don't think it's worth it to raise hell over it. In their position, I might fix it on my downtime, but that's me.

    Don't home their balls, man


    So I finally got the chance to sit down and play (most) of episode II...

    And I must say, I am pleasantly surprised by many things in this iteration. It's still not perfect, but it fixes far more complaints than I expected, and I was even able to do physics tricks I didn't think they ever paid attention to.

    1. Physics. Rolling is still kind of gimped, if you let go, it doesn't go anywhere near as far as it should. However, it is remarkably improved and generations didn't fully fix this either, so I'm willing to live with what we have for the time being. On the plus side, everything else about the physics that bothered me is fixed. Momentum, uncurling, heck, the thing that sealed the deal for me is the fact that I can still do a high jump trick when running up the very top of a ramp, just like in the classics. This pleases me 'greatly'! Overall? Thank you for listening Sega. Just tweak the rolling a bit more and I'm satisfied. Also, while I do find the forced co-op play to be a bit of a cop-out (honestly, multiple pathways for the sonic trio will always remain the best gameplay design), I must say that they use all of the combo moves very well, and that they're all easy and fun to use.

    2. Stage Design. At first, I followed along with everyone else's fears that things would be automatic homing attack pitfests, but in truth, this is not the case at ALL. Pits are rarely used, which shocks me, there are many paths in most levels, and even homing chains are actually quite rare and effectively used. There's still something a bit "dimpsy" about the stage design, object placement feels far more artificial and less like a natural extension of the world, but that may just be a matter of aesthetics and personal taste. Highly subjective I'd even venture to say. Overall, again, a MAJOR improvement and a pleasant surprise. I didn't think they'd ever listen to us on this. Also, the level design is very fair for the most part. Far less enemies you can't see creeping up on you.

    3. Visuals. Wonderful, all around. Great visual design on the stages for the most part. Yes, we have recycled stage tropes out the wazoo again, but they're well used for the most part and each have enough new touches to make them feel fresh. And the visuals look amazing all around, nothing technically phenomenal, but each character model is perfectly animated and feels exactly like they should. Seeing Metal Sonic fly and pose again really felt cool and got me excited for his return. Again, going with my earlier comments, the gameplay elements (abundance of speed pads, springs, dimpsy things) don't mesh with the stages as well as they should, but that remains my main complaint, and some parts of the levels suffer from copy/paste blandness. Everything else looks pretty good.

    4. Bosses. The first boss was easy, but still fairly unique. The Metal Sonic fight was tough, exciting, fun and I LOVED it. It made me giddy. Felt like one of the boss fights against him I've been waiting years to see. I liked it more than the generations one. I can't see a better way to do it. The Oil Desert boss was also very unique. Haven't played beyond that yet. Overall, wonderful work, Sega. You completely addressed rehashing complaints here.

    5. Special Stages - I've only played 3, but the best thing I can say about this version of the half pipe? It reminds me somewhat of the 3D Blast Saturn half-pipe, and that is no small compliment, as the 3D Saturn half-pipe remains the best special stages ever in the series. You have multiple layers, many gimmicks to make the stages fun to play, and challenging.

    6. Music - The instrumentation could be far better, as everyone has said, but I like the tunes themselves this time around almost universally. I wish they'd just do a standard OST with real instruments ALA Colors/Generations, but oh well. Many of these tunes will make great remixes. Oh, and Metal Sonic's new boss theme is sexy.

    Overall? I am pleased, far more than I thought I'd be. Yes, I never hated episode 1 as much as some people, but its flaws WERE quite glaring to me, even if I did have fun with it. Now I desperately want Episode 1 remade and fixed with this engine. Where is the Sonic 4 (& Knuckles) combo pack that makes both episodes 1 game? (Though I do want to play Episode metal.) Still, while it doesn't beat the classics, this episode to me solidifies it. Sonic is back, and he is worth playing again. Sonic 4 Ep 1 was an insult to classic fans, but a passable game. Colors and Generations, both iterations of each, were now solidly good, even great games. Taxman's Sonic CD is (almost, I'd still like a patch tweaking some time travel issues) perfection incarnate, surpassing the quality of the original game. Sonic 4 episode 2 continues the streak. Sonic has truly recovered from his downfall at this point for me.
  10. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

    Nut Lord Member
    It's great to hear that Episode II is a solid game from most people. At the time I kinda liked Episode I, but after really sitting down with it and playing it, it became more and more apparent that it was such a lazily designed cop-out of a game. Hearing that everything from the level design to the physics have been improved this time around, even if its not up to par with the classics it sounds like a really solid game. Its length disappoints me still 4-5 zones with 3 acts each is much too short, especially with certain spoiler gimmick acts, but so long as its fun and at least feels longer than Episode I it'll be hard to complain. It just makes me wish that they could've made a fuller feeling game, perhaps released as a disk release ala Rayman Origins or New Super Mario Bros. Wii. I'd honestly pay $50 for a full side scrolling Sonic game released today, under the pretenses that it has, say, a solid 12+ zones, 2-3 acts each with replayability through time attack, Red Rings, etc. I'm still holding out for a disk release of Sonic 4 that links all the Episodes together, gives them the same engine and allows for all characters to be playable in all stages with fixed physics, but that's just a pipe dream.
  11. Arique


    SHUWATCH! Member
    So hey, I recorded some footage of me playing through White Park Act 2. And just because I wanted to do it, I synced the video up to a Sega Genesis-like remake of the level's BGM that I made. :v:

    And yes, I decided not to put the Spoiler code on that video to make you guys happy. We're only two weeks away from the game being officially released, so I guess now it's safe to talk about the game without using those Spoiler codes.


    Well, Episode 1 and 2 combined have 27 acts (if I add in final boss stages which have new visuals, but ignore the regular boss acts), while Sonic 3 & Knuckles has 25 acts total, including Doomsday.

    The key difference is that Sonic 4 has 10 different zone types, while S3&K has 14.

    When combined, the two games are roughly the same length. Of course, they weren't originally developed as one like Sonic 3.
  13. corneliab


    Eh, I'm pretty sure this was still possible in Episode 1. I remember doing this all the time.

    That said, nice writeup! I'm looking forward to playing this once it hits consoles.
  14. Overlord


    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    Long-term happiness
    No, keep using them. I'm letting Youtube videos fly without spoilers because you have to actively click on them to get them going - they're essentially built-in spoiler tags.
  15. Joltanz Mantis

    Joltanz Mantis

    ! Member
    Quebec, Canada
    I sing
    To be honest, I was dissapointed in many aspects of Sonic 4-2.

    The only thing they fixed physics-wise is the restoration of Sonic's aerial momentum. When I roll downwards on an incline, I stop on the incline, which is sad.

    As for Tails, I find him fun to use, but I wish you could skip the little animation when the combo move happens, like in Sonic CD with time-travel. It gets very annoying.
    The worst part about tails is that they force you to use him in a lot of sections. The biggest offenders are one of the acts in Oil Desert (at the end of the stage) and Sky Fortress act 3. I hate being forced to use Tails. The worst part is that since when you're hit the combo is canceled, you fall in a pit. DIIIIIIMMMMPPPSSS! :argh: Thankfully, in Sky Fortress act 3 you can Spin Dash jump the first two bottomless pits. Other than that, I find Tails overpowered and fun to use underwater.

    For aesthetic, the worst zone was White Park (-Act 2) I hate how huge chunks of the level have an uninspired monotone ice background. It's pale. And sad.
    On the other end, the prettiest was Sky Fortress zone as a whole. Very nice recreation of Wing Fortress.

    Finally the level design.
    First of all, the special stages. Disclaimer: I've only cleared the first 4 for now. They're very fun and different enough to set themselves apart. Only one thing annoys me. In ShadowOfRuki's videos on Youtube, I noticed springs. I thought they were optional, to promote alternate paths in the special stages too. But no. Scripted. :flunked: Also, Sonic's running animation is fine in 2D, but looks stupid in 3D.
    Now the actual stages. It was pretty good, but not memorable. I remember many other games better. The stages are uninspired and after having read this (found on a thread while I was lurking) I can't take these levels seriously anymore.
    At least they have a few alternate paths which involve jumping over speed boosters / springs :v: It's like Dimps knows it's boring.

    But I'm still buying it because it is a huge improvement over that other turd (Sonic 4-1) On PS3 though.

    7 / 10 good, not amazing.

    Good first post guys? :specialed:
  16. Azu


    I must be stupid. Member
    Quick question. Anyone knows what font (or something similar to it) is used in the title cards?
  17. Naean


    Naean H.F. (Nez Man) Member
    United Kingdom
    2D. Sonic Fan Game
    Bolts SF, also used in Episode I. ;)
  18. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    In fact that's a pirated version. The font is ITC Bolt.
  19. Azu


    I must be stupid. Member
    26 dollars for a font. :v:
  20. Endri


    Officer I don't have my drivers license with me. C Tech Member
    How about neither? The credits of the game says that the Typeface used is DF Zong Yi, created by DynaComware, which is a font with full UTF-8 glyths range for Asiatic languages, and costs $495.00! I'm afraid that the fonts you guys mentioned only contains the Latin range.

    Moving on from the fonts. Did you know that, in Sylvania Castle Zone ACT 1 as soon as you land from the plane, if you go all the way to the left of the screen, there is a 1up Monitor siting there? I only learned about the existence of this 1up Monitor when I saw it on my Level Editor!