Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. trakker

    trakker

    The guy that's been warned! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=517994:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:12 AM:name=sonicblur)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sonicblur @ Oct 16 2010, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517994">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=517857:date=Oct 15 2010, 03:04 PM:name=trakker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (trakker @ Oct 15 2010, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517857">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think its far more apt to compare it to Dimp's previous work
    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-Ax52bK220&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-Ax52bK220&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->
    What went wrong in Dimps since 1999? they pretty much had this down first try<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fixed. (Although there weren't many videos of it to choose from)
    I thought SPA was wonderful, despite the weird nub-stick on the NGPC. The physics were decent and they did a good job copying the style of the old levels. (Sometimes too much)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok yeah yeah, people know more things than me, but its still the point, dimps surely have access to all these physics in pocket adventure and advance1, infact I wouldent be surprised if they copyed pocket adventure to create advace 1, so why not just do it again and still add the homing attack they so desperatly wanted
     
  2. Yuzu

    Yuzu

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    <!--quoteo(post=517539:date=Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM:name=Blue Warrior)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blue Warrior @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517539">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.sapphirecontrol.net/music/vg/sonic4-splashhill2.mp3" target="_blank">I think the Sonic 4 soundtrack would benefit from non-cookie-cutter instruments.</a>

    Whipped this up in just two or three hours. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It sounds amazing, I already love it far more than the original soundtrack. It'd be great if people figured out how switch Soundbanks on the Wii version.
     
  3. kazade

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    <!--quoteo(post=517539:date=Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM:name=Blue Warrior)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blue Warrior @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517539">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.sapphirecontrol.net/music/vg/sonic4-splashhill2.mp3" target="_blank">I think the Sonic 4 soundtrack would benefit from non-cookie-cutter instruments.</a>

    Whipped this up in just two or three hours. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Holy...

    Imagine what Sonic 4 could have been with Sonic 3 physics and decent instruments like this!
     
  4. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    In other news, I finally managed to at least get into the top ten on one of the leaderboards of Sonic 4 Wii. :specialed: Lost Labyrinth Zone Boss.
     
  5. LOst

    LOst

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    Finally played the game (so I am allowed to post here) :)

    It is not up to my standards. If you don't know my standards, they are:
    Original physics.
    Correct 2D perspective.
    Interesting levels.
    Awesome art.
    Awesome music.

    Sonic 1 had this. Sonic 2 definitely had this. Sonic 3 was revolotinary in every aspect.

    Sonic 4 has nothing, except some cool effects. But I am not worried about Sonic's future. Sega is on the right track for once!

    LOL: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBYMLebz9g&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBYMLebz9g...feature=related</a> at 1:44 he says "Okay, I walked up that... I'm not gonna ask"
     
  6. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game tries to mask this lack of creativity with a throwaway storyline about Dr. Eggman revising failed designs in another attempt to conquer the world. Given the proliferation of the original Genesis games on digital download services and recent compilations, one does not have to travel far to re-experience Sonic the Hedgehog 2, making Sonic 4‘s wholesale theft of old ideas feel less like “we're bringing back old favorites you may have forgotten about” and more like “we can't think of anything better to do”. With a few exceptions, almost every idea present in Sonic 4 was lifted from an old Sega Genesis game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think this is a little unfair. It's obvious that Episode 1, at least, is meant to be a bit of an homage to the original games. There's still quite a few new ideas (Lost Labyrinth's rocks, Splash Hill's vines, Casino Street's cards, Mad Gear's cog-controlled doors, etc.) and most ideas taken from the Genesis games have a twist to them.

    If they do Episode 2 the same way, then I think it's fair to say they're out of ideas. But a one-off tribute is fine with me.
     
  7. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=518137:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:59 AM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Oct 16 2010, 08:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518137">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game tries to mask this lack of creativity with a throwaway storyline about Dr. Eggman revising failed designs in another attempt to conquer the world. Given the proliferation of the original Genesis games on digital download services and recent compilations, one does not have to travel far to re-experience Sonic the Hedgehog 2, making Sonic 4‘s wholesale theft of old ideas feel less like “we're bringing back old favorites you may have forgotten about” and more like “we can't think of anything better to do”. With a few exceptions, almost every idea present in Sonic 4 was lifted from an old Sega Genesis game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think this is a little unfair. It's obvious that Episode 1, at least, is meant to be a bit of an homage to the original games. There's still quite a few new ideas (Lost Labyrinth's rocks, Splash Hill's vines, Casino Street's cards, Mad Gear's cog-controlled doors, etc.) and most ideas taken from the Genesis games have a twist to them.

    If they do Episode 2 the same way, then I think it's fair to say they're out of ideas. But a one-off tribute is fine with me.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not reviewing a game based on the potential of a future sequel that we have seen absolutely no information on.

    A couple new ideas don't really make up for everything else, either. Lost Labyrinth Act 2 was brought up because that's a level composed of almost 100% new ideas. That level is carried by the torch mechanic and nothing else. Everything else you mentioned are nice ideas, but to a certain degree, not really earth-shatteringly new concepts for a Sonic game.

    Let's take the rocks in Lost Labyrinth Act 1, for instance. The rocks falling from the ceiling find similar extremely mechanics in the falling streams of lava from Marble Zone and Lava Reef Zone. The rolling rocks that chase you have homes in, again, Lava Reef Zone (a spiked metal ball chases you in one portion of that level), and in Sonic Rush (round balls chase Sonic in several levels). Balancing on the rolling balls fill roughly the same function as the minecart in Act 2.

    Similarly, Casino Streets flipping cards share ideas with the flipping platforms of Chemical Plant Zone, and the cog-controlled doors could be viewed as a combination of the nuts from Metropolis and the push-switches in Sandopolis.

    For the $15 it costs to buy Sonic 4, you could buy Sonic 2, 3, S&K (at $5 each) and have, what, 25 zones (44 levels), and 3 playable characters? That may not mean much to guys like us who have memorized these games front to back, but to the average consumer who isn't obsessed with Sonic, it's an option they should be seriously considering.
     
  8. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Wait, how does the minecart function just like the boulders? Last time I checked with the boulders you have to constantly balance yourself, while on the minecart you basically jump when the game tells you to.
     
  9. Ravi Singh

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    <!--quoteo(post=518132:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:40 AM:name=LOst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LOst @ Oct 16 2010, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518132">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBYMLebz9g&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBYMLebz9g...feature=related</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Guy in video at 1:11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guy in video at 1:11)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get that. I mean, I'm going fast and all of a sudden I slow down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hear ya, bro. Also, I had the same reaction when something similar to what happens to him at 1:44 happened to me.
     
  10. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=518144:date=Oct 16 2010, 09:32 AM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ Oct 16 2010, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518144">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, how does the minecart function just like the boulders? Last time I checked with the boulders you have to constantly balance yourself, while on the minecart you basically jump when the game tells you to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hence why I said "roughly". In the sense that they wrestle forward control away from you to take you on a path that is quite literally on rails while you have to manage something separate. Both implementations are slightly different - but only slightly, and neither are really crowd pleasers in a way that could carry an entire level.
     
  11. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    <!--quoteo(post=518141:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:28 AM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Oct 16 2010, 08:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518141">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not reviewing a game based on the potential of a future sequel that we have seen absolutely no information on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that we're seeing the same things from different perspectives - you see the use of old content as a lazy and uncreative, while I feel like it's acceptable as a homage to the original games. My opinion is that your perspective is a rather cynical one.
     
  12. LockOnTommy11

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    Personally, I think Sonic 4; Episode 1 has the right amount of new content in. What did Sonic 3 & Knuckles bring to the table that was completely brand new and not in any shape or form affiliated with previous instalments? Maybe I'm being a bit thick as of writing this, but I can't think of anything. Sonic & Knuckles just did things on a grander scale.

    Okay, It did give us as players some things like those big spinning pipes in Carnival Night, and those long winding twists in Hydrocity, as well as those boosters that held Sonic in place with a robotic hand, so in terms of level content, it was new, but you could clearly see that it was an evolution from ideas previously used. Sonic 4 has gone the same way, with those big boulder-sphere things that you can ride, and those cards which function in a similar manner as the flipping floors in Chemical Plant Zone. I was surprised that you could actually ride the boulders when I first saw a leaked video, it was like they'd actually taken the unused Green Hill Zone element and re-implemented it quite nicely.

    Face it, if it had any more new gimmicks in, then everyone would be complaining that it was less like the previous games even more. It even had Sonic holding a torch, and it gave him some new moves, as well as some totally different types of physical terrain. There's also a mine cart, which didn't excite me too much, considering that Sonic Advance 3 had the same thing anyway.

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gAFm3zWjeY&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gAFm3zWjeY&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    See 20 seconds in.

    Edit: That's actually made me want to play the Sonic Advance games again. I think they're spot on when capturing the feel of Sonic's world.
     
  13. BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=518150:date=Oct 16 2010, 10:00 AM:name=Guess Who)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guess Who @ Oct 16 2010, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518150">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518141:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:28 AM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Oct 16 2010, 08:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518141">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not reviewing a game based on the potential of a future sequel that we have seen absolutely no information on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that we're seeing the same things from different perspectives - you see the use of old content as a lazy and uncreative, while I feel like it's acceptable as a homage to the original games. My opinion is that your perspective is a rather cynical one.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Given the history of this franchise, I think people should be rightfully cynical. This is not a franchise that has earned the benefit of the doubt.
     
  14. Bartman3010

    Bartman3010

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    One thing I noticed is that a number of people who are complaining about the physics are those who are used to playing the older titles on the Genesis. The game is quite playable, however those who try to immediately jump in are going to have trouble adjusting to the new system.

    Don't get me wrong, the physics are quite terrible. It's also why Sega should not have tried to cater towards older fans of the series with this title. However Sega is trying to enter the market that both Konami and Capcom has lept into with their older franchises. Of course titles like Mega Man 9 and 10, Contra and Castlevania Rebirth got them down pat because they play true to previous titles in their respective franchises. Its no surprise, given how vocal the fans can be, and how mishandled Sonic is, that people who grew up with Sonic are going to have trouble with Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Not just with the physics of course, but for the content the game features. With very few key members on the team returning, a title outsourced to a different company (With a decent track record for Sonic games.) Theres somewhat of a reason for the game to be called Sonic 4. Sega is hitting the highest notes the company can offer. Although considering the backlash that Sega is receiving from this game, there are bigger offenders out there. For example, both Goldeneye and Donkey Kong Country Returns, I have a problem with both of these. While the content promises to be new and exciting, none of the key members from Rare are giving their input about either game, whether or not they're good games. But they're coming out partially because of fan demand, partially because these companies are trying to sell nostalgia on you. Its a dirty trick, and its no insult to the developers behind either game, but its an example of how to be successful in the industry. You know that whole "Game is an Art Form" argument? Of course they're art. Its a conglomeration of different kinds of art to create an interactive product. Wait. Read that again. "Interactive Product." It may or may not be a term that I picked up from somewhere, but its true. These people are selling these games to you on name alone. How they get these products together is their business, but people have to realize that this is just a method for them to make money. It can be a soulless operation much like any shovelware title that exists on the market today. Sonic 4 was probably an idea from a higher up, and thrown at this company in order to make this happen and not burden the parent company with such a trivial matter. Hey, it 'worked' for Capcom, didnt it? I mean, if Street Fighter 4, a game created BY THE SAME DEVELOPER OF SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 it could've worked for Sega, right?

    I apologize for this huge block of text, and I know its not refined, but heres the cliff notes for everyone:

    Roger Ebert was right all along, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is an example of a video game being a product, not an art form, sold to consumers. Thats all it is.

    As for what the game itself is, I had fun with Sonic 4, despite playing the ever loving shit out of the classic Mega Drive/Genesis titles. However I can hope that future episodes of the game will feature harder levels and more content, such as playable characters or game modes. However I'll be lucky if we even get that. Most of the fun I've had came from blazing through the zones, and I actually like the art style the game has going for it, at times anyway. I miss this direction of pre-rendered CGi thats been missing from games, although the badniks could use some more detail on them.

    If I were to grade the game on a scale of 1 to 10 (Which I will) I'd probably give it a 6, while there is some fun to be had, theres no denying that the physics are going to throw people off. There are also some spots where the game is genuinely too difficult, and they're actually few and far in between with the majority of the game being too easy. For $15 you could pay for another Sonic title thats two or three times as long and more difficult. But hey, Sega loves throwing Genesis roms everywhere, can you blame them?
     
  15. Spatula

    Spatula

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    <!--quoteo(post=518129:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:04 AM:name=kazade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kazade @ Oct 16 2010, 08:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518129">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=517539:date=Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM:name=Blue Warrior)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blue Warrior @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517539">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.sapphirecontrol.net/music/vg/sonic4-splashhill2.mp3" target="_blank">I think the Sonic 4 soundtrack would benefit from non-cookie-cutter instruments.</a>

    Whipped this up in just two or three hours. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Holy...

    Imagine what Sonic 4 could have been with Sonic 3 physics and decent instruments like this!
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    then it would be a good game, and Sega would have my money
     
  16. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=518153:date=Oct 16 2010, 06:28 AM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Oct 16 2010, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518153">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I think Sonic 4; Episode 1 has the right amount of new content in. What did Sonic 3 & Knuckles bring to the table that was completely brand new and not in any shape or form affiliated with previous instalments? Maybe I'm being a bit thick as of writing this, but I can't think of anything. Sonic & Knuckles just did things on a grander scale.

    Okay, It did give us as players some things like those big spinning pipes in Carnival Night, and those long winding twists in Hydrocity, as well as those boosters that held Sonic in place with a robotic hand, so in terms of level content, it was new, but you could clearly see that it was an evolution from ideas previously used. Sonic 4 has gone the same way, with those big boulder-sphere things that you can ride, and those cards which function in a similar manner as the flipping floors in Chemical Plant Zone. I was surprised that you could actually ride the boulders when I first saw a leaked video, it was like they'd actually taken the unused Green Hill Zone element and re-implemented it quite nicely.

    Face it, if it had any more new gimmicks in, then everyone would be complaining that it was less like the previous games even more. It even had Sonic holding a torch, and it gave him some new moves, as well as some totally different types of physical terrain. There's also a mine cart, which didn't excite me too much, considering that Sonic Advance 3 had the same thing anyway.

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gAFm3zWjeY&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_gAFm3zWjeY&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    See 20 seconds in.

    Edit: That's actually made me want to play the Sonic Advance games again. I think they're spot on when capturing the feel of Sonic's world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You forget the new moves and shields S3K brought to the table. Those were really fun.
     
  17. MarkoMan

    MarkoMan

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    What did S3K bring to the table?

    Insta-shield
    Shield related attacks.
    Shield related defenses.
    Playable Flying Tails.
    Knuckles.
    Different paths for different characters.
    Multiple cutscenes that told a story.
    Running on water.
    Those damn barrels.
    The snowboard.
    Launch Base.
    Zones that have different backgrounds in different acts.
    Super Emeralds.
    The Master Emerald.
    Death Egg as an actual level.
    The Doomsday.

    And that's just stuff I got with minimal thought.
     
  18. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    Not that I've bought Sonic 4 or am absolutely crazy about it (My friend and I will be marathoning it tonight though on his PS3, so I'll have impressions later), but here's a list of things that I can think of that Sonic 4 brought to the 2D franchise so far.

    Homing attack
    Dash attack
    The minecart
    New special stages
    Score/Time Attack modes
    The ability to play a single level without being forced into the next one
    Running on rocks to move you forward
    Running on gears to open doors/move you forward
    Different music for every level
    The pullies

    Some more significant than others, but Sonic 4 isn't entirely rehashed and does bring some new things to the table. I'll have a more in-depth look at the game by like, tomorrow or tonight, but I'm not expecting too much in the favor of it being excellent or it being horrible; I'm gonna go in completely cold as not to be disappointed or bias my opinion. I know for a fact though that after playing the demo that besides uncurling, stopping in mid-air and losing momentum in a ball (All of which are pretty fair problems to complain about), that I thought it was pretty fun.
     
  19. <!--quoteo(post=518180:date=Oct 16 2010, 12:58 PM:name=MarkoMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MarkoMan @ Oct 16 2010, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518180">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What did S3K bring to the table?

    Insta-shield
    Shield related attacks.
    Shield related defenses.
    Playable Flying Tails.
    Knuckles.
    Different paths for different characters.
    Multiple cutscenes that told a story.
    Running on water.
    Those damn barrels.
    The snowboard.
    Launch Base.
    Zones that have different backgrounds in different acts.
    Super Emeralds.
    The Master Emerald.
    Death Egg as an actual level.
    The Doomsday.

    And that's just stuff I got with minimal thought.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thank you! And that doesn't even cover the competitive stuff like Time Attack and having new levels for the head-to-head races.

    S3K was a huge jump from S2.
     
  20. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    <!--quoteo(post=518182:date=Oct 16 2010, 10:06 AM:name=Solid SOAP)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solid SOAP @ Oct 16 2010, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518182">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Homing attack
    Dash attack
    The minecart
    New special stages
    Score/Time Attack modes
    The ability to play a single level without being forced into the next one
    Running on rocks to move you forward
    Running on gears to open doors/move you forward
    Different music for every level
    The pullies<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    *Dash attack was in S3&K with Fire Shield. Unless if you're talking about something I don't know of. I'm assuming you're talking about Homing Attack without locking onto anything.
    *The special stages aren't new, they're from Sonic 1
    *S3&K had different music for every level except sometimes Angel Island Zone due to a glitch
    *Time Attack isn't entirely new, it was in Sonic CD

    Also, the full version of Sonic 3 has 14 zones (Tails has 13, Knuckles has 12). Sonic 4's episodes combined may exceed that (plus S4 has 3 acts), the full version of Sonic 4 will probably have 12 zones if there's 3 episodes, but S3K has longer levels, and twice as many bosses (there's a boss per act), also even though S3K had re-used level themes, none of them are blatantly obvious unlike Sonic 4 (for instance, Splash Hill is obviously based off of Green/Emerald Hill, while Marble Zone from Sonic 1 and Marble Garden from S3K share the same theme, they look completely different), and are believable as entirely new zones. Plus S3&K had separate badniks per zone.