Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    I wish I could have enjoyed the game as much as some of you are.
     
  2. Rika Chou

    Rika Chou

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    I like cute fluffy kittens.....
     
  3. OSM

    OSM

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    That filter made me laugh.
     
  4. kazade

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    OK, so I just completed it on the Wii...

    Firstly, I really enjoyed the game, it was without a doubt the best Sonic game since SA2. There are some glaring problems with it though, the lack of air momentum being number #1. I can't count the number of times I missed a platform because I took my thumb off of the direction assuming the momentum would carry me across. The physics suck so hard that I can't even describe, and I don't understand why either, I mean Mercury has documented the whole thing in the Sonic Physics Guide - any programmer worth his salt could duplicate that.

    There are two other major flaws. One is the overuse of bottomless pits. I know that all the originals had bottomless pits but they were far less frequent (and far more obvious) than the ones in Sonic 4. The other is the sheer number of gimmicks shoved into each level. There's not enough space to just run and kill stuff. LLZ has falling balls, balls you run on, the whole torch thing, lighting fuses, lighting torches and the minecart! I've got nothing against any of those gimmicks, there are just way WAY too many of them. Just have one section of falling balls, a couple of fuses to light, and make the wall torches light up the whole level for a period of time (like Sandopolis Act 2), limit the minecart section and don't have that whole "running on the ball" repeated like 4 times in a row!

    Oh yeah, there are way too many springs and boosters, and you shouldn't have to rely on the homing attack to cross anywhere - it should be an optional shortcut.

    The final boss was just right, perhaps it was slightly too easy. SPOILER: <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'> The falling floor was a nice touch, I didn't see that coming and died the first time that came about.</span>

    The special stages rock, I've only completed 4 so perhaps when I've done all 7 my opinion might change :)

    The whole game just feels too "packed" as if they squeezed in as much as possible until it felt kinda cramped. Sonic is about big open levels where you can build up speed without springs or boosters, I didn't get that same sense in this game. Still I'd give it 8/10 it would be 9/10 if they fixed the physics and 10/10 if they toned down the gimmicks.
     
  5. JcFerggy

    JcFerggy

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    <!--quoteo(post=518095:date=Oct 16 2010, 04:08 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Oct 16 2010, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518095">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Words about kids playing Sonic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    When I was between the age of 6 and 10, I played Sonic 2 and 3K a whole lot, without understanding the complexity of the physics engine, and I was able to enjoy it plenty. I'd say that is was one of the few games that I would boot up just to play for fun because it was exciting to go fast, with enough challenge to not feel like a cake walk.

    Now if you want to go with the assumption that the game's physics were made for kiddies, then why are so many things made so frustrating. The vines work like crap. The timing puzzle in LLZ2 was just bullshit. And the crushing wall brought back from HCZ was just retarded, but then they throw it in MG3 THREE TIMES. Let alone that the Special Stage tried to slow you down with those transparent-till-gone-through bricks. Even getting to the Special Stage was harder than it should have been. You have to come to a complete stop before the sign most of the time because running right past it then trying to jump in at last second didn't really work.

    Besides, this game was made for "us", the classic fans. Sonic Colors is what is supposed to be for kids, yet it appears that most views on this are in the negative, while everyone wants Colors.
     
  6. Quexinos

    Quexinos

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    I finally did it, finally got all chaos emeralds and played as Super Sonic!

    Okay my final verdict is 8/10. Super sonic brought it over the edge for me. Super Sonic is amazing, absolutely how he should be. It' been a long long long time coming. Anyway, yeah I like this game, Im looking forward to episode 2.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yet it appears that most views on this are in the negative<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Say wuh?.. Most people I find are really enjoying it.
     
  7. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    It's rubbish that the physics were changed to gain more enjoyment from new gamers, even if SEGA are kidding themselves they did the right thing. Sonic The Hedgehog was universally praised upon release partly because of it's handling, which was and still is like no other game franchise. Then ten years later, Sonic Advance came out, with the same physics (more or less). Now, 9 years later, Sonic 4 is out, and it's not as if millions of people have just given birth to children who are unable to grasp basic physics.

    I'm going to make a bold half-arsed statement, which I don't want to put up for discussion, and say that I feel that companies like Nintendo might be to blame for this, by making out that everything needs to be ultra simplistic to be enjoyed by people who haven't yet reached puberty. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, and not everything they do is ultra simplistic, but it's the way they constantly advertise it as such, and it's a notion that's been drilled into us all.

    Besides what I just said, I'm not slating the physics either, and I daren't start another discussion about them, because we don't really need to say anything else.
     
  8. Afti

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    ...If Sega was looking to Nintendo, we'd have physics like Super Mario Galaxy, which would be phenomenal. Galaxy's physics are ten times better than this game; Mario has a realistic feeling of weight and is actually affected by slopes.

    The only people to blame here are at Sega.
     
  9. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    I wasn't saying that. What I was saying is that the whole notion that everything must be super fresh, super unique and ultra family friendly has been drilled in too much to the overall gaming community nowadays. If SEGA were aiming for that style, they didn't really need to change the physics like they have said.
     
  10. Afti

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    Except that Sega's target audience was quite clearly people who were fans of the Genesis games but disliked later titles- in which case this was not in keeping with their audience, and was simply incompetence.

    (edit: ninja'd)

    Getting past this: Lost Labyrinth Act 2 is the best level in the game; I do wish there were more slower, puzzle-platforming based levels like that.
     
  11. Dusk Golem

    Dusk Golem

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    <!--quoteo(post=518110:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:31 AM:name=Afti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afti @ Oct 16 2010, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518110">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except that Sega's target audience was quite clearly people who were fans of the Genesis games but disliked later titles- in which case this was not in keeping with their audience, and was simply incompetence.

    (edit: ninja'd)

    Getting past this: Lost Labyrinth Act 2 is the best level in the game; I do wish there were more slower, puzzle-platforming based levels like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's one of my favorites, I'll go on record to say my three favorite levels in no order are Lost Labyrinth Act 2, Mad Gear Zone Act 3, Mad Gear Zone act 2.
     
  12. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    I always like the first zone of all the Sonic games, I don't know why. I like Lost Labyrinth Act 3 because it's a water stage, and I also like Mad Gear Zone Act 1, because the music and the whole starting of the stage is just epic.
     
  13. CriticalMass

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    <!--quoteo(post=518100:date=Oct 16 2010, 02:30 AM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Oct 16 2010, 02:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518100">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Link removed-.

    I wish I could have enjoyed the game as much as some of you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is actually a very good review. Thanks for it.
     
  14. Quexinos

    Quexinos

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game tries to mask this lack of creativity with a throwaway storyline about Dr. Eggman revising failed designs in another attempt to conquer the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I did not know that.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In particular, I managed to rack up nearly 30 1ups in Casino Street Act 2, only to lose more than ten of those extra lives to falling down various bottomless pits in that same level – seven of which were lost in rapid succession thanks to a particularly nasty platforming challenge in the second half of the stage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think I died my first time there and that was it. Use the jump boost to get more speed if you need to.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game's final boss feels like the punchline to a bad joke – requiring a ridiculously large number of hits to defeat and an absolutely brutal attack pattern that brought me from 25 lives down to a measly 9<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That I agree with. I had 19 and ended with 0.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That delay seems to have been primarily spent on creating new versions of the aforementioned Casino Street Act 2 and Lost Labyrinth Act 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well yeah... They took two terrible levels and turned them into something good. That's worth delaying a game I'd say.

    Yeah okay the physics are shitty but they're consistent and you can get used to them. The physics aren't buggy, I'm not falling through floors or homing attack over enemies or anything they're just not exactly as they were in the Genesis games, but you're able to work with them. I WOULD like to see an improvement here though. I can tell they tried really hard. In the past I always felt Sonic games were rushed with no heart put into them. This is the first Sonic game in a long long long time that I felt had heart in it.


    People are being waaay to hard on this game and it's for the wrong reasons. Learn to use the new physics and explore some of the levels. It's fun. Super Sonic makes the game really worth it. And TBH, I have a feeling that even if Sonic team got the physics exactly like the genesis games, there'd be something else people would whine about like bottomless pits WHICH HAVE EXISTED IN EVERY SINGLE SONIC GAME SINCE SONIC 1. Green Hill Zone had some for crying out loud XD
     
  15. Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518095:date=Oct 16 2010, 03:08 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Oct 16 2010, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518095">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think of it this way: Imagine you're a young lad of say, 8, 9, and this is your first time playing a Sonic game, 2D or otherwise. You're told that the incentive is to get to the end of the level, located inevitably but seemingly indefinitely to the constant right. Having a basic grip on video games, all you know you need to do is get there, and you get there by using the D-Pad. You're told Sonic goes fast. Really fast. Your 8 year old brain doesn't quite comprehend physics yet, so rolling down a hill to gain speed or using a half-pipe to get to a higher area ala Sonic 1 means nothing to you. All you want to do is hold right and get to that sign post.

    Or, maybe you are aware of physics - rolling down hill makes you gain speed, etc. You just don't think the game knows. So you play with the assumption that the only for Sonic to go fast is to make him go fast.

    Now, that may not be the intention of the programmers - maybe they were lazy, or maybe they don't understand how variables and floating points are better than fixed values - whatever the case may be, Sonic 4's physics are easier for either newcomers, young'uns, whatever.

    (Come to think of it, maybe that's partially contributing to Sonic 4's positive reception - I imagine a game reviewer doesn't exactly take the time out of his grimdark shootan gaem playing schedule to load up his Genesis for a good round of Sonic 2, so they may be rusty on their Sonic lore. Maybe if they were the game would be being more widely panned)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Except that the classic physics obviously worked for eight-or-nine-year-olds back in the day, and the game was made with twenty-some-odd-year-olds in mind.

    So... yeah... your point doesn't exactly work. You don't need to be able to properly comprehend physics for the game to be accessible; that stuff mainly factors into skilled play. This is true of Sonic 4, and it's true of classic Sonic. The only result of the new physics replacing the old is that oldbies like us have to re-adjust and adopt new tactics and reflexes to compensate, essentially flushing half our hard-earned Sonic skillz down the crapper.
     
  16. Jay T.

    Jay T.

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    I gotta admit, I was laughing when I was Super Sonic in Casino Street Act 1. Wow...what were they thinking about him always getting a Jackpot as Super Sonic? Racked up 999 rings (and 50,000 for every Jackpot) easy. They should make it so you have a high chance of getting a Jackpot or Eggmans at least. Y'know, make it riskier...
     
  17. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    You always get a Jackpot as Super Sonic?

    Jeezus. He can breath underwater, he's invincible, he's super-fast, he can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and he's blacklisted in Vegas. That is awesome.
     
  18. Jay T.

    Jay T.

    It takes an idiot to do cool things... Member
    <!--quoteo(post=518120:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:22 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518120">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You always get a Jackpot as Super Sonic?

    Jeezus. He can breath underwater, he's invincible, he's super-fast, he can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and he's blacklisted in Vegas. That is awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    They really buffed him up in the positive area, huh?
    You can even rack up points in the millions if you keep at it. I'm sure some people have in the leaderboards.

    ...Wait, can you check out your score in the leaderboards? Looking back at it, I don't think you can.
     
  19. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=518115:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518115">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game tries to mask this lack of creativity with a throwaway storyline about Dr. Eggman revising failed designs in another attempt to conquer the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I did not know that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's not actually listed in the game's "instruction manual" (How To Play in Options), but it was published on the Sonicthehedgehog4.com website ages ago.

    <!--quoteo(post=518115:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518115">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In particular, I managed to rack up nearly 30 1ups in Casino Street Act 2, only to lose more than ten of those extra lives to falling down various bottomless pits in that same level – seven of which were lost in rapid succession thanks to a particularly nasty platforming challenge in the second half of the stage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think I died my first time there and that was it. Use the jump boost to get more speed if you need to. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In particular, the part I had a problem with was the huge field of rotating cards over a bottomless pit. The timing of the cards was hard to suss out, and trying to use the jump dash when I'd misjudge the timing is usually what would end up killing me.


    <!--quoteo(post=518115:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518115">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That delay seems to have been primarily spent on creating new versions of the aforementioned Casino Street Act 2 and Lost Labyrinth Act 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well yeah... They took two terrible levels and turned them into something good. That's worth delaying a game I'd say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't know if I would call Casino Street Act 2 "good". The playing card thing is decent enough, I guess, but none of it ever really translates in to the sort of gimmicks worthy of carrying an entire stage. It's all flashy scripting and 400 rings and 30 extra lives, but the most amazing moments in that level are when the game takes my controls away and shows me what essentially ends up being a cutscene.

    <!--quoteo(post=518115:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 16 2010, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518115">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah okay the physics are shitty but they're consistent and you can get used to them. The physics aren't buggy, I'm not falling through floors or homing attack over enemies or anything they're just not exactly as they were in the Genesis games, but you're able to work with them. I WOULD like to see an improvement here though. I can tell they tried really hard. In the past I always felt Sonic games were rushed with no heart put into them. This is the first Sonic game in a long long long time that I felt had heart in it.

    People are being waaay to hard on this game and it's for the wrong reasons. Learn to use the new physics and explore some of the levels. It's fun. Super Sonic makes the game really worth it. And TBH, I have a feeling that even if Sonic team got the physics exactly like the genesis games, there'd be something else people would whine about like bottomless pits WHICH HAVE EXISTED IN EVERY SINGLE SONIC GAME SINCE SONIC 1. Green Hill Zone had some for crying out loud XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    After the kind of Sonic games they've tried to push on us - your Shadow the Hedgehogs and Sonic 2006es and whatnot, they have a LOT to prove. The harder somebody fucks up, the more effort is required to be forgiven.

    Sonic 4 has way too many moments where it feels like somebody said "Well, I guess that's good enough". But no, it's really not good enough, at least not for me. If you're ready to forgive them easier than I can just because they halfassed some fanservice, that's good for you, I guess. I can't tell you to stop enjoying Sonic 4, after all.

    But I don't like it. It's too expensive for the amount of content contained within, the music is bland, the controls are at war with contrary level design... if Sega's going to be so bold as to claim a game is "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" and then ignore the specifics of what made games like Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and 3 so great, then no thank you. Retroactive continuity sucks if you're using it to spoil good memories with a bad future.
     
  20. Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518121:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:26 AM:name=Jay T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jay T. @ Oct 16 2010, 05:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518121">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They really buffed him up in the positive area, huh?
    You can even rack up points in the millions if you keep at it. I'm sure some people have in the leaderboards.

    ...Wait, can you check out your score in the leaderboards? Looking back at it, I don't think you can.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You can. The PSN version takes a while to update the Leaderboards after you upload them, but you can.

    They keep a seperate set of boards for Super Sonic and Normal Sonic playthroughs, though, so the Jackpot score can only get you so much in the way of bragging rights.