Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.
I wish I could have enjoyed the game as much as some of you are.
I like cute fluffy kittens.....
That filter made me laugh.
OK, so I just completed it on the Wii...
Firstly, I really enjoyed the game, it was without a doubt the best Sonic game since SA2. There are some glaring problems with it though, the lack of air momentum being number #1. I can't count the number of times I missed a platform because I took my thumb off of the direction assuming the momentum would carry me across. The physics suck so hard that I can't even describe, and I don't understand why either, I mean Mercury has documented the whole thing in the Sonic Physics Guide - any programmer worth his salt could duplicate that.
There are two other major flaws. One is the overuse of bottomless pits. I know that all the originals had bottomless pits but they were far less frequent (and far more obvious) than the ones in Sonic 4. The other is the sheer number of gimmicks shoved into each level. There's not enough space to just run and kill stuff. LLZ has falling balls, balls you run on, the whole torch thing, lighting fuses, lighting torches and the minecart! I've got nothing against any of those gimmicks, there are just way WAY too many of them. Just have one section of falling balls, a couple of fuses to light, and make the wall torches light up the whole level for a period of time (like Sandopolis Act 2), limit the minecart section and don't have that whole "running on the ball" repeated like 4 times in a row!
Oh yeah, there are way too many springs and boosters, and you shouldn't have to rely on the homing attack to cross anywhere - it should be an optional shortcut.
The final boss was just right, perhaps it was slightly too easy. SPOILER:
The falling floor was a nice touch, I didn't see that coming and died the first time that came about.
The special stages rock, I've only completed 4 so perhaps when I've done all 7 my opinion might change
The whole game just feels too "packed" as if they squeezed in as much as possible until it felt kinda cramped. Sonic is about big open levels where you can build up speed without springs or boosters, I didn't get that same sense in this game. Still I'd give it 8/10 it would be 9/10 if they fixed the physics and 10/10 if they toned down the gimmicks.
When I was between the age of 6 and 10, I played Sonic 2 and 3K a whole lot, without understanding the complexity of the physics engine, and I was able to enjoy it plenty. I'd say that is was one of the few games that I would boot up just to play for fun because it was exciting to go fast, with enough challenge to not feel like a cake walk.
Now if you want to go with the assumption that the game's physics were made for kiddies, then why are so many things made so frustrating. The vines work like crap. The timing puzzle in LLZ2 was just bullshit. And the crushing wall brought back from HCZ was just retarded, but then they throw it in MG3 THREE TIMES. Let alone that the Special Stage tried to slow you down with those transparent-till-gone-through bricks. Even getting to the Special Stage was harder than it should have been. You have to come to a complete stop before the sign most of the time because running right past it then trying to jump in at last second didn't really work.
Besides, this game was made for "us", the classic fans. Sonic Colors is what is supposed to be for kids, yet it appears that most views on this are in the negative, while everyone wants Colors.
I finally did it, finally got all chaos emeralds and played as Super Sonic!
Okay my final verdict is 8/10. Super sonic brought it over the edge for me. Super Sonic is amazing, absolutely how he should be. It' been a long long long time coming. Anyway, yeah I like this game, Im looking forward to episode 2.
Say wuh?.. Most people I find are really enjoying it.
It's rubbish that the physics were changed to gain more enjoyment from new gamers, even if SEGA are kidding themselves they did the right thing. Sonic The Hedgehog was universally praised upon release partly because of it's handling, which was and still is like no other game franchise. Then ten years later, Sonic Advance came out, with the same physics (more or less). Now, 9 years later, Sonic 4 is out, and it's not as if millions of people have just given birth to children who are unable to grasp basic physics.
I'm going to make a bold half-arsed statement, which I don't want to put up for discussion, and say that I feel that companies like Nintendo might be to blame for this, by making out that everything needs to be ultra simplistic to be enjoyed by people who haven't yet reached puberty. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo, and not everything they do is ultra simplistic, but it's the way they constantly advertise it as such, and it's a notion that's been drilled into us all.
Besides what I just said, I'm not slating the physics either, and I daren't start another discussion about them, because we don't really need to say anything else.
...If Sega was looking to Nintendo, we'd have physics like Super Mario Galaxy, which would be phenomenal. Galaxy's physics are ten times better than this game; Mario has a realistic feeling of weight and is actually affected by slopes.
The only people to blame here are at Sega.
I wasn't saying that. What I was saying is that the whole notion that everything must be super fresh, super unique and ultra family friendly has been drilled in too much to the overall gaming community nowadays. If SEGA were aiming for that style, they didn't really need to change the physics like they have said.
Except that Sega's target audience was quite clearly people who were fans of the Genesis games but disliked later titles- in which case this was not in keeping with their audience, and was simply incompetence.
Getting past this: Lost Labyrinth Act 2 is the best level in the game; I do wish there were more slower, puzzle-platforming based levels like that.
That's one of my favorites, I'll go on record to say my three favorite levels in no order are Lost Labyrinth Act 2, Mad Gear Zone Act 3, Mad Gear Zone act 2.
I always like the first zone of all the Sonic games, I don't know why. I like Lost Labyrinth Act 3 because it's a water stage, and I also like Mad Gear Zone Act 1, because the music and the whole starting of the stage is just epic.
This is actually a very good review. Thanks for it.
I did not know that.
I think I died my first time there and that was it. Use the jump boost to get more speed if you need to.
That I agree with. I had 19 and ended with 0.
Well yeah... They took two terrible levels and turned them into something good. That's worth delaying a game I'd say.
Yeah okay the physics are shitty but they're consistent and you can get used to them. The physics aren't buggy, I'm not falling through floors or homing attack over enemies or anything they're just not exactly as they were in the Genesis games, but you're able to work with them. I WOULD like to see an improvement here though. I can tell they tried really hard. In the past I always felt Sonic games were rushed with no heart put into them. This is the first Sonic game in a long long long time that I felt had heart in it.
People are being waaay to hard on this game and it's for the wrong reasons. Learn to use the new physics and explore some of the levels. It's fun. Super Sonic makes the game really worth it. And TBH, I have a feeling that even if Sonic team got the physics exactly like the genesis games, there'd be something else people would whine about like bottomless pits WHICH HAVE EXISTED IN EVERY SINGLE SONIC GAME SINCE SONIC 1. Green Hill Zone had some for crying out loud XD
Except that the classic physics obviously worked for eight-or-nine-year-olds back in the day, and the game was made with twenty-some-odd-year-olds in mind.
So... yeah... your point doesn't exactly work. You don't need to be able to properly comprehend physics for the game to be accessible; that stuff mainly factors into skilled play. This is true of Sonic 4, and it's true of classic Sonic. The only result of the new physics replacing the old is that oldbies like us have to re-adjust and adopt new tactics and reflexes to compensate, essentially flushing half our hard-earned Sonic skillz down the crapper.
I gotta admit, I was laughing when I was Super Sonic in Casino Street Act 1. Wow...what were they thinking about him always getting a Jackpot as Super Sonic? Racked up 999 rings (and 50,000 for every Jackpot) easy. They should make it so you have a high chance of getting a Jackpot or Eggmans at least. Y'know, make it riskier...
You always get a Jackpot as Super Sonic?
Jeezus. He can breath underwater, he's invincible, he's super-fast, he can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and he's blacklisted in Vegas. That is awesome.
They really buffed him up in the positive area, huh?
You can even rack up points in the millions if you keep at it. I'm sure some people have in the leaderboards.
...Wait, can you check out your score in the leaderboards? Looking back at it, I don't think you can.
It's not actually listed in the game's "instruction manual" (How To Play in Options), but it was published on the Sonicthehedgehog4.com website ages ago.
In particular, the part I had a problem with was the huge field of rotating cards over a bottomless pit. The timing of the cards was hard to suss out, and trying to use the jump dash when I'd misjudge the timing is usually what would end up killing me.
I don't know if I would call Casino Street Act 2 "good". The playing card thing is decent enough, I guess, but none of it ever really translates in to the sort of gimmicks worthy of carrying an entire stage. It's all flashy scripting and 400 rings and 30 extra lives, but the most amazing moments in that level are when the game takes my controls away and shows me what essentially ends up being a cutscene.
After the kind of Sonic games they've tried to push on us - your Shadow the Hedgehogs and Sonic 2006es and whatnot, they have a LOT to prove. The harder somebody fucks up, the more effort is required to be forgiven.
Sonic 4 has way too many moments where it feels like somebody said "Well, I guess that's good enough". But no, it's really not good enough, at least not for me. If you're ready to forgive them easier than I can just because they halfassed some fanservice, that's good for you, I guess. I can't tell you to stop enjoying Sonic 4, after all.
But I don't like it. It's too expensive for the amount of content contained within, the music is bland, the controls are at war with contrary level design... if Sega's going to be so bold as to claim a game is "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" and then ignore the specifics of what made games like Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and 3 so great, then no thank you. Retroactive continuity sucks if you're using it to spoil good memories with a bad future.
You can. The PSN version takes a while to update the Leaderboards after you upload them, but you can.
They keep a seperate set of boards for Super Sonic and Normal Sonic playthroughs, though, so the Jackpot score can only get you so much in the way of bragging rights.
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