Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=518048:date=Oct 15 2010, 08:23 PM:name=Covarr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Covarr @ Oct 15 2010, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518048">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->GUYZ LISTEN

    You can't compare speedrun times like that. Sonic 3 has been out for more than 16 years, and Sonic 4 has been out for less than 16 days. I think Sonic 3 speedruns are a bit more polished than what's currently on the Sonic 4 leaderboards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    All the top 10 players are cheating lying faggots
     
  2. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=518048:date=Oct 16 2010, 04:23 AM:name=Covarr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Covarr @ Oct 16 2010, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518048">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->GUYZ LISTEN

    You can't compare speedrun times like that. Sonic 3 has been out for more than 16 years, and Sonic 4 has been out for less than 16 days. I think Sonic 3 speedruns are a bit more polished than what's currently on the Sonic 4 leaderboards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The numbers I posted are MY not top-notch Sonic 3 speedrun times against THE BEST Sonic 4: Episode 1 speedrun times so far (minus hacking). Also, the times won't decrease by any considerable amount now, at least not enough to discount the point that there is very little difference in the length of the two games.
     
  3. Solaris Paradox

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    Speedruns aren't really an accurate measure, per se, because depending on zone structure, two levels that can be speedrun'd in a minute and a half could both last very different lengths in a casual, blind playthrough.
     
  4. Nix

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    Breaking up the discussion, but I'm raging all over the place now.

    I can not for the life of me beat E.G.G. Station without getting touched. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>The 4th boss being an asinine chase fight throwing goddamn balloons at you with no indication of which balloon he's throwing at you in the first place. If there actually is a way to tell which one he's going to throw please for the love of God tell me. My rage is only increased by the final boss's pinch mode in which he shoots his arms at completely random times stealing my rings constantly. Even if I want to continue on with the fight so I'll be able to hopefully unlock the Avatar item, he'll block me from my rings so I can't get back to them. Then comes his finishing move. I attack him like I'm supposed to and I somehow get hurt and robbed of yet another life.</span>

    E.G.G. Station......you deserve every ounce of my rage. That being said, I recently <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>got my 7th Emerald and unlocked Super Sonic, and he sure is a blast to play as. Not a fan of his music personally.</span>
     
  5. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    The Super Sonic theme grows on you. E.G.G. Station takes a lot of practice, but I can confidently say that if I were to record a no-hit run on my Dazzle right now, I'd probably be able to do it in less than four tries.
     
  6. Willie

    Willie

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    Remember how Sega gave GameSpot more exclusive sneak peek announcements than any other site? Did anyone find it odd how long it's taking for GameSpot to review Sonic 4? Well, they finally reviewed it and gave it a <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/projectneedlemouse/review.html" target="_blank">6.5</a>. Notice how all of the early Sonic 4: Episode 1 reviews were overwhelmingly positive? Yeah, this is so goddamn obvious. Sega are a bunch of fgts. They probably refused to give GameSpot an early copy because of failure from GameSpot to guarantee a high score. Fucking Sega. A week from now, the Metacritic score for this game will probably be in the low 7's.
     
  7. Dude

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    <!--quoteo(post=518064:date=Oct 15 2010, 11:51 PM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ Oct 15 2010, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518064">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Remember how Sega gave GameSpot more exclusive sneak peek announcements than any other site? Did anyone find it odd how long it's taking for GameSpot to review Sonic 4? Well, they finally reviewed it and gave it a <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/projectneedlemouse/review.html" target="_blank">6.5</a>. Notice how all of the early Sonic 4: Episode 1 reviews were overwhelmingly positive? Yeah, this is so goddamn obvious. Sega are a bunch of fgts. They probably refused to give GameSpot an early copy because of failure from GameSpot to guarantee a high score. Fucking Sega. A week from now, the Metacritic score for this game will probably be in the low 7's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I have postulated that SEGA has paid for some of the high praise reviews surrounding sonic 4, but never really cared enough to say it before. Hopefully the metacritic score goes down to juuuust enough to get Sega of Japan to actually listen to their community team, but not low enough to cancel future episodes.
     
  8. Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonic 4 is not an easy game. There are sections that require you to move with precision through passages while massive walls nip at your heels, ready to crush you if you make one false move. These areas can rapidly siphon your lives away. Balancing this out is one easy level, called the Road of Cards, which heaps extra lives on you by the dozens. This level, in which you spin playing cards around as you speed past them and gain extra lives whenever three of them at a time come up with Sonic's face, is a joy the first time you play it, racing along and trying to turn over as many cards as possible in a short amount of time to improve your odds of racking up lives. But because this stage is by far the easiest way to earn extra lives in the game you'll probably find yourself coming back to the Road of Cards numerous times. Eventually, it starts to feel like a chore, and you'll wish there were a greater variety of ways to stock up on extra Sonics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This part makes me wonder which happens to suck harder—the game, or the person playing it. :v:

    EDIT: My God. Why is the only "average" review I've read so far the only negative one that doesn't mention the physics at all? Seriously, GameSpot's review is a 6.5 for nearly all the wrong fucking reasons. And the one thing worth complaining about in the Special Stages—the goddamn bumpers—is the one thing they don't mention. Fuck you GameSpot, fuck you IGN, you're both fucking worthless whether you're praising a game or otherwise.

    Fuck you both and die in a digital fire.
     
  9. JaxTH

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    lol. I've never done Casino Street Act 2 for lives. :P

    I did get the immortal achievement from the level though, but thats because I kept failing the Special Stage there and refused to proceed until I got it.
     
  10. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=518068:date=Oct 16 2010, 05:27 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518068">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonic 4 is not an easy game. There are sections that require you to move with precision through passages while massive walls nip at your heels, ready to crush you if you make one false move. These areas can rapidly siphon your lives away. Balancing this out is one easy level, called the Road of Cards, which heaps extra lives on you by the dozens. This level, in which you spin playing cards around as you speed past them and gain extra lives whenever three of them at a time come up with Sonic's face, is a joy the first time you play it, racing along and trying to turn over as many cards as possible in a short amount of time to improve your odds of racking up lives. But because this stage is by far the easiest way to earn extra lives in the game you'll probably find yourself coming back to the Road of Cards numerous times. Eventually, it starts to feel like a chore, and you'll wish there were a greater variety of ways to stock up on extra Sonics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow. They really suck at platformers.

    Dimps and Sonic Team, please make Episode II harder. It'll please me, not only because I'll have a level with an actual challenge, but also because you'll piss more reviewers off. I live on the fumes of angry reviewers.
     
  11. Kylegamer98

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    Dammit, my mom went out and preordered Colors instead of getting a points card (not that I have a problem with Colors)... Should I just play through my <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>pirated</span> iPhone version until I rack up enough G's, or wait it out?
    Also, we should have seen this coming years ago. In Sonic Advance 1 & 2, you can get stuck on a slope for around a second before falling down. A whole second.
    [​IMG]
    Sorry if I'm bugging anyone by addressing multiple topics in a single post, and one of those topics always being that , "Get stuck on a slope" contest. Being a trial member sucks, and that contest has gotten me super interested in attempting to impress you guys. Seriously, last post that has anything to due with that. Onto the Sonic 4 discussion.
     
  12. Spatula

    Spatula

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    -the first boss should be medium difficulty to get past without dying, but hard to get past without losing some rings
    -the first boss lasts long enough to use up all your rings if you try to go super to protect them. This is key right here, because it forces everyone to fight the really hard boss for the first time without cheap powerups.
    -second boss - very easy if you know it. you can do it in your sleep. not easy if you don't know it.
    -the third boss should be hard enough to kill anyone the first time, no matter who they are, no matter how many rings or powerups they have, and excruciatingly difficult for a human to beat without rings or shields of some kind.
    -you get one chance to use rings against the final boss, and if you blow it you get to waste all of your lives and all 9 continues trying to fight ringless :v: . Everyone loses the first time, so everyone has to do this.

    that is basically the template sonic 2, 3, and S&K used.

    The platforming aspects of Sonic games are not that hard compared to some games, with the exception of the last level, and maybe a couple other areas of interest. The bosses should be HARD though. The final boss should be a wall of pain. And scary. It needs to make children cry.
     
  13. Solaris Paradox

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    DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMPS!!!! :argh:

    ... :v:

    On a more serious note, it's really funny the odd kind of love-hate relationship I've developed with this game. It's like, the more I play it, the more I love it, but at first, there was so much about it that annoyed me.

    Bah. Serious business, these games... serious business...

    <!--quoteo(post=518079:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:39 AM:name=Spatula)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Spatula @ Oct 16 2010, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518079">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-the first boss should be medium difficulty to get past without dying, but hard to get past without losing some rings
    -the first boss lasts long enough to use up all your rings if you try to go super to protect them. This is key right here, because it forces everyone to fight the really hard boss for the first time without cheap powerups.
    -second boss - very easy if you know it. you can do it in your sleep. not easy if you don't know it.
    -the third boss should be hard enough to kill anyone the first time, no matter who they are, no matter how many rings or powerups they have, and excruciatingly difficult for a human to beat without rings or shields of some kind.
    -you get one chance to use rings against the final boss, and if you blow it you get to waste all of your lives and all 9 continues trying to fight ringless :v: . Everyone loses the first time, so everyone has to do this.

    that is basically the template sonic 2, 3, and S&K used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh... wut?
     
  14. Namo

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    Were I forum staff, I'd have approved you for your wintastic avatar alone, Kylegamer.

    Anyway, maybe I'm naive, but has anyone considered that maybe Sonic 4 is getting high scores (initially) because the reviewers are actually enjoying the game? I mean, I know I am. The new physics, at least in my belief, are designed so it's approachable to newer Sonic players who, unlike us, wouldn't be used to being able to let go of the button to gain momentum - hence why for any momentum to be gained you actually have to keep the directional button held down. To those of us who've played the old games to hell and back, the physics and controls end up feeling stiff, but I guarantee if I were to give my 8 year old niece a crack at this game, she'd get it quickly.
     
  15. Hanoch

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    Oh and doesn't Mad Gear act 3 remind you of Power Plant act 3 in from Sonic Boom (the chase part) It really looks like they are stealing from hacks, homing attack from megamix and overworld from Bro Tro.
     
  16. Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    A few of my friends who aren't intimately familiar with classic Sonic, having simply played it in the past and enjoyed it (rather than obsessing over it like a certain forum full of nerds that shall remain nameless) played the game and can't see what anyone is bitching about.

    So yeah, it's perfectly possible that reviewers have given it positive scores out of simple enjoyment.

    I don't doubt the GamesRadar guy did, after watching that speedrun of his. Not that I necessarily agree with his opinion of the physics...

    <!--quoteo(post=518083:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:47 AM:name=Hanoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hanoch @ Oct 16 2010, 01:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518083">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and doesn't Mad Gear act 3 remind you of Power Plant act 3 in from Sonic Boom?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh, no, actually. It reminds me of Hydrocity Zone Act 2, except now the wall damages you and things try to crush you along the way.

    And there are seesaws. And the wall isn't made of FIRE.

    EDIT: Oh, and you do more than just hold right the entire time.

    Why?
     
  17. Ravi Singh

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    <!--quoteo(post=518082:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:43 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Oct 16 2010, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518082">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new physics, at least in my belief, are designed so it's approachable to newer Sonic players who, unlike us, wouldn't be used to being able to let go of the button to gain momentum - hence why for any momentum to be gained you actually have to keep the directional button held down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You should look into getting a PR job at SEGA.

    Seriously though, I don't think it's that because newcomers wouldn't really notice anything different. Besides, I really can't see the advantage of some of the new physics, such as how the spindash pretty much amounts to nothing once you roll off a cliff. I can see the "green eyes" and even the "homing attack" being used to appeal to newcomers or modern Sonic fans, but not the physics.

    On another note, I like the new Super Sonic music.
     
  18. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    The physics weren't designed with anything in mind except playing the game. They suck because the designers had a simultaneous idiot moment and forgot that making a retro-throwback title actually feel and function like the games it was throwing back to might be a prudent concept to work with. End of story. It's as simple as that.
     
  19. Slingerland

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    <!--quoteo(post=518093:date=Oct 16 2010, 02:02 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 02:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518093">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The physics weren't designed with anything in mind except playing the game. They suck because the designers had a simultaneous idiot moment and forgot that making a retro-throwback title actually feel and function like the games it was throwing back to might be a prudent concept to work with. End of story. It's as simple as that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, I don't think there's any subtext to why the game controls the way it does. I agree with you here. It's just lack of talent, knowledge and effort.
     
  20. Namo

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    <!--quoteo(post=518090:date=Oct 16 2010, 02:23 AM:name=Ravi Singh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ravi Singh @ Oct 16 2010, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518090">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518082:date=Oct 16 2010, 01:43 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Oct 16 2010, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518082">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new physics, at least in my belief, are designed so it's approachable to newer Sonic players who, unlike us, wouldn't be used to being able to let go of the button to gain momentum - hence why for any momentum to be gained you actually have to keep the directional button held down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You should look into getting a PR job at SEGA.

    Seriously though, I don't think it's that because newcomers wouldn't really notice anything different. Besides, I really can't see the advantage of some of the new physics, such as how the spindash pretty much amounts to nothing once you roll off a cliff. I can see the "green eyes" and even the "homing attack" being used to appeal to newcomers or modern Sonic fans, but not the physics.

    On another note, I like the new Super Sonic music.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Think of it this way: Imagine you're a young lad of say, 8, 9, and this is your first time playing a Sonic game, 2D or otherwise. You're told that the incentive is to get to the end of the level, located inevitably but seemingly indefinitely to the constant right. Having a basic grip on video games, all you know you need to do is get there, and you get there by using the D-Pad. You're told Sonic goes fast. Really fast. Your 8 year old brain doesn't quite comprehend physics yet, so rolling down a hill to gain speed or using a half-pipe to get to a higher area ala Sonic 1 means nothing to you. All you want to do is hold right and get to that sign post.

    Or, maybe you are aware of physics - rolling down hill makes you gain speed, etc. You just don't think the game knows. So you play with the assumption that the only for Sonic to go fast is to make him go fast.

    Now, that may not be the intention of the programmers - maybe they were lazy, or maybe they don't understand how variables and floating points are better than fixed values - whatever the case may be, Sonic 4's physics are easier for either newcomers, young'uns, whatever.

    (Come to think of it, maybe that's partially contributing to Sonic 4's positive reception - I imagine a game reviewer doesn't exactly take the time out of his grimdark shootan gaem playing schedule to load up his Genesis for a good round of Sonic 2, so they may be rusty on their Sonic lore. Maybe if they were the game would be being more widely panned)