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Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Megane

    Megane

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    Leaping through time, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that the next leap will be the leap home.
    So I tried the demo of the 360 version.

    I need a stiff drink now.
     
  2. OSM

    OSM

    retro is for losers! Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=516978:date=Oct 13 2010, 05:36 PM:name=trakker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (trakker @ Oct 13 2010, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516978">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tryed the demo and man, it brings whole new life to that old Sonic phrase "hold right to win" all the physics don't feel right. infact I know what this feels like.

    You know when there is something awsome, say like the iphone4, and then China makes a cheap version of it too, it looks the same, but its not quite right, its not all there, thats what Sonic 4 is.

    Its a Chinese iphone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fucking sigged.
     
  3. 87th

    87th

    FOX HOUNDER Member
    I mean this with 100% sincerity. Sonic 4: Episode 1 is exactly as good as I expected from a 2010 Dimps-developed 2D Sonic sequel that borrowed heavily from Sonic 1 and 2.
     
  4. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    As expected, everyone can't get over the name. What a shocker.

    I await an asinine rebuttal saying the name matters. "What's in a name?"

    I'll grant the physics are not up to par and definitely need work. This is pretty obvious. On other counts, though, the level design was a much nicer step up than past DIMPS endeavors. Bottomless pits didn't litter stages and were usually kept to trickier areas in the end.

    Some gimmicks needed work, like the cannons in CSZ3. I don't think removing control from the player would have made it better. If anything, you people would have complained more. However, it probably would have been better reduced in importance. What's another casino gimmick that could have worked here?

    LLZ and MGZ were pretty solid, showing they at least hit their stride here. While I do think two moving walls is a bit of a stretch in two different zones, it worked well enough, especially that last rush in MGZ3.

    As cynical as most of us tend to be, I'm giving this team benefit of the doubt and await to see their doings in Episode 2. I enjoyed Ep. I and, while it's still a weaker game than S2 and S3K, it's still a fun platformer that regrettably still has some flaws here and there.
     
  5. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I feel that Sega will listen to fans' inputs for Episode 2; and possibly even fix all of these physics issues. The reason I think this is because.. well, almost the entire amount of the fanbase that's played this (people that love it AND the people that hate it) think the physics are bad and need fixing. The only people that do not believe such are clearly in denial no matter their feelings on the game's quality. The physics aren't just unlike classic Sonic, they are unnatural and make what could've been a fantastic nostalgia-trip and gameplay experience just a decent one.
     
  6. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    I honestly enjoyed the game and liked it, but Sega must be made aware that the physics do need to be fixed. I went back to play Sonic 1 earlier today, and couldn't stop screwing up because the physics are so unlike Sonic 4.
     
  7. MarkoMan

    MarkoMan

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    <!--quoteo(post=516996:date=Oct 13 2010, 06:14 PM:name=GeneHF)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneHF @ Oct 13 2010, 06:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516996">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As expected, everyone can't get over the name. What a shocker.

    I await an asinine rebuttal saying the name matters. "What's in a name?"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A reputation.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll grant the physics are not up to par and definitely need work. This is pretty obvious. On other counts, though, the level design was a much nicer step up than past DIMPS endeavors. Bottomless pits didn't litter stages and were usually kept to trickier areas in the end.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree that the level design was really good. I do feel as though this was a new experience despite the familiar looking areas.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some gimmicks needed work, like the cannons in CSZ3. I don't think removing control from the player would have made it better. If anything, you people would have complained more. However, it probably would have been better reduced in importance. What's another casino gimmick that could have worked here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I liked the cannons. But if we had to choose a different gimmick, maybe balloons that magically reappear after a few moments could have done the trick in those areas.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LLZ and MGZ were pretty solid, showing they at least hit their stride here. While I do think two moving walls is a bit of a stretch in two different zones, it worked well enough, especially that last rush in MGZ3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The walls were amazing. They were much more thrilling than that wall in HCZ2 in S3.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As cynical as most of us tend to be, I'm giving this team benefit of the doubt and await to see their doings in Episode 2. I enjoyed Ep. I and, while it's still a weaker game than S2 and S3K, it's still a fun platformer that regrettably still has some flaws here and there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Episode 2 should be fun.
    But the problem about that will be the physics.
    Someone from Sega (I don't remember who) had said that it wouldn't be possible to fix the physics because they'd have to redesign all of the levels or something like that. So let's say they want to fix physics because it's clear that they're a problem, but then they can't fix them because they wanna do the lock on thing and the newer physics will "mess up Episode 1" (which, after having played the game, I could see why Sega would think that). <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>(I would also like to think that the programmers are smart enough to know how to fix that which needs to be fixed and then maybe add some extra stuff to the level design code of the locked on Sonic 4 with Episode 1 and fixed physics...)</span>

    Then what?
     
  8. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    I don't see what's so hard about fixing the physics in Ep. I retroactively. I do know that the speed boosters hide the bad physics, something the Techies have been very happy to show since the PartnerNet leak.

    At the same time, the main stuff that people complain about is acceleration, air control, and ball functions when spin dashing, rolling in a u ramp or a standard ramp, acceleration while rolling. Out of those three main categories, two can be easily fixed without busting up the level design too badly, as they claim. The latter will require them to remove some odd hills when running.

    Will one of the techies kindly explain how this works? I can't remember the specifics with fancy pictures to explain it for sure, but it'd help people at least understand the gist of it. All I remember is something to do with 45 degree angles.
     
  9. Solid SOAP

    Solid SOAP

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    I've been going at the demo stage again and again, and y'know what? I actually kinda like it, the new controls n' all take a bit to get used to but in the end I think it's a pretty fun game. I dunno if I'm gonna buy it immediately, if a buncha Microsoft points fall onto my lap I'll probably pick it up but I definitely enjoyed what I played, I look forward to playing the full game this Saturday at my friend's place.
     
  10. trakker

    trakker

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    2 reasons why the physics wont change in subsequence episodes

    1 - Its "reviewing" pretty well
    2 - Changing them will be admitting that have done it wrong, companys HATE doing that and genrally avoid it at all costs
     
  11. Quexinos

    Quexinos

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    <!--quoteo(post=516753:date=Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM:name=Otama Sanshiro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otama Sanshiro @ Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw the good ending. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>and It's plain obvious Metal Sonic is going to be in Episode 2</span>
    Not what I was expecting! I'm looking to play it now, methinks that the Sonic 2 Dimps hack is going to come in handy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    dammit, why did I read that? :(

    Also sorry if this has been answered but I don't want to go through the entire thread. Is there a specific reason that sometimes a special stage ring doesn't appear at the end of a stage even if you have 50 rings? I thought maybe it was because I already got a chaos emerald in that stage or something but... I'm not sure...

    and to those saying the game is reviewing well, it's actually not:
    <a href="http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?search=sonic+the+hedgehog+4&numrev=3&site=" target="_blank">http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?se...rev=3&site=</a>

    To me 80% is about average. Now if it was above 85% or something, then yeah it'd be reviewing good, but so far it just seems critics like it alright.
     
  12. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    If they don't fix the physics, then the only way to get them to listen is to hit them in the wallet.

    *looks at link*
    Is that Gamefaq's?
     
  13. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    <!--quoteo(post=517015:date=Oct 13 2010, 11:48 PM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 13 2010, 11:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517015">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=516753:date=Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM:name=Otama Sanshiro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otama Sanshiro @ Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw the good ending. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>and It's plain obvious Metal Sonic is going to be in Episode 2</span>
    Not what I was expecting! I'm looking to play it now, methinks that the Sonic 2 Dimps hack is going to come in handy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    dammit, why did I read that? :(

    Also sorry if this has been answered but I don't want to go through the entire thread. Is there a specific reason that sometimes a special stage ring doesn't appear at the end of a stage even if you have 50 rings? I thought maybe it was because I already got a chaos emerald in that stage or something but... I'm not sure...

    and to those saying the game is reviewing well, it's actually not:
    <a href="http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?search=sonic+the+hedgehog+4&numrev=3&site=" target="_blank">http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?se...rev=3&site=</a>

    To me 80% is about average. Now if it was above 85% or something, then yeah it'd be reviewing good, but so far it just seems critics like it alright.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, it's cause you already got an Emerald on that act. You can't just spam SHZ1 for them :P

    Also, 80% isn't average. It's quite positive.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=517015:date=Oct 13 2010, 03:48 PM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 13 2010, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517015">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=516753:date=Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM:name=Otama Sanshiro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otama Sanshiro @ Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw the good ending. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>and It's plain obvious Metal Sonic is going to be in Episode 2</span>
    Not what I was expecting! I'm looking to play it now, methinks that the Sonic 2 Dimps hack is going to come in handy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    dammit, why did I read that? :(

    Also sorry if this has been answered but I don't want to go through the entire thread. Is there a specific reason that sometimes a special stage ring doesn't appear at the end of a stage even if you have 50 rings? I thought maybe it was because I already got a chaos emerald in that stage or something but... I'm not sure...

    and to those saying the game is reviewing well, it's actually not:
    <a href="http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?search=sonic+the+hedgehog+4&numrev=3&site=" target="_blank">http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?se...rev=3&site=</a>

    To me 80% is about average. Now if it was above 85% or something, then yeah it'd be reviewing good, but so far it just seems critics like it alright.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd say 70 is average. 80 is good, 90 is great, and 100 is perfect.

    But ya if you got a chaos emerald in the act you can't get another in the same act. That's probably why nothing is showing up.
     
  15. SonikkuForever

    SonikkuForever

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's called Sonic 4, so it should be judged as such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But is that fair? I mean, most of us were little kids when the "classics" came out, and you know how kids love everything. We're older now, and see the world through much more critical eyes. My whole theory for the love of the classics is this: It's natural to have a special connection to games you played as a kid. People who embrace the classic games and want Sonic to be just like he was in the 90s are trying to relive their childhoods, even if they don't realize it. This isn't a bad thing, but sometimes I think nostalgia impedes the judgement of whether or not a game is actually good. If you keep looking for a Sonic game that makes you feel just like you did as a kid, you're going to have a pretty hard time because you're not a kid anymore, so you'll percieve everything differently. Sure, Sonic 4 is different from the classics, but that's probably because it's not. Physics don't make a game an instant classic. Time does. If today's children have fond memories of playing Sonic 4 20 years down the road, then the game was a success.
     
  16. Quexinos

    Quexinos

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, it's cause you already got an Emerald on that act. You can't just spam SHZ1 for them :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ... well I wish I had kept track of which ones I got an emerald in >_<
    Well I know Splash Hill one and two for sure... not sure where I got the other two XD

    There's no way to tell is there? (besides completing a level with 50 rings)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd say 70 is average. 80 is good, 90 is great, and 100 is perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I guess for me, it'd have to be above 85 to be good. But that's just me, it's certainly rating higher than any of the other recent Sonic games.
     
  17. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    <!--quoteo(post=517030:date=Oct 13 2010, 05:55 PM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 13 2010, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517030">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, it's cause you already got an Emerald on that act. You can't just spam SHZ1 for them :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ... well I wish I had kept track of which ones I got an emerald in >_<
    Well I know Splash Hill one and two for sure... not sure where I got the other two XD

    There's no way to tell is there? (besides completing a level with 50 rings)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It shows an emerald on the stage select screen next to acts you obtained one in.
     
  18. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    <!--quoteo(post=517015:date=Oct 13 2010, 02:48 PM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 13 2010, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517015">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=516753:date=Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM:name=Otama Sanshiro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otama Sanshiro @ Oct 13 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=516753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw the good ending. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>and It's plain obvious Metal Sonic is going to be in Episode 2</span>
    Not what I was expecting! I'm looking to play it now, methinks that the Sonic 2 Dimps hack is going to come in handy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    dammit, why did I read that? :(

    Also sorry if this has been answered but I don't want to go through the entire thread. Is there a specific reason that sometimes a special stage ring doesn't appear at the end of a stage even if you have 50 rings? I thought maybe it was because I already got a chaos emerald in that stage or something but... I'm not sure...

    and to those saying the game is reviewing well, it's actually not:
    <a href="http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?search=sonic+the+hedgehog+4&numrev=3&site=" target="_blank">http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?se...rev=3&site=</a>

    To me 80% is about average. Now if it was above 85% or something, then yeah it'd be reviewing good, but so far it just seems critics like it alright.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    First up, Gamerankings omits the reviews of several prominent sites. Use metacritic, it's what sega uses:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/so...hog-4-episode-1</a>

    second up, at Metacritic, Sonic 4 is higher than Sonic 1:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-live-arcade" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/so...hog-live-arcade</a>

    much higher than sonic & knuckles:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-knuckles" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-knuckles</a>

    the same as Sonic 3:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-3" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-3</a>

    and 3 points lower than Sonic 2:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-2" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/sonic-the-hedgehog-2</a>

    By comparison to another "well reviewed" game:

    <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/metroid-other-m" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/metroid-other-m</a>

    tl;dr: Sonic 4 is tied for 2nd out of 5 entries for highest rated main-series sonic game.

    EDIT: Also worth noting that, for some reason, the PS3 version is rated noticeably higher than any other version of the game: <a href="http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1" target="_blank">http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation...hog-4-episode-1</a>

    which makes it the HIGHEST scoring main-series sonic game.
     
  19. Quexinos

    Quexinos

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    Oh wow, thanks.... Guess I got some work to do.

    Also 4th special stage... wow it's been a while since I've been that frustrated with a Sonic game (then again the final boss was no picnic either)

    EDIT
    on the reviews, but there it's getting 79 when on game rankings it was getting 80 D:
     
  20. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    <!--quoteo(post=517034:date=Oct 13 2010, 02:58 PM:name=Quexinos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quexinos @ Oct 13 2010, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517034">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh wow, thanks.... Guess I got some work to do.

    Also 4th special stage... wow it's been a while since I've been that frustrated with a Sonic game (then again the final boss was no picnic either)

    EDIT
    on the reviews, but there it's getting 79 when on game rankings it was getting 80 D:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    83% on the PS3 version.

    But yeah, MetaCritic is what sega uses to judge the reception of a game: <a href="http://www.geek.com/articles/games/sega-removes-sonic-games-from-sale-if-metacritic-scores-are-average-2010107/" target="_blank">http://www.geek.com/articles/games/sega-re...verage-2010107/</a>