Sega: retcon Episode I out of existence and have t3h re4l Sonic Team assemble completely awesome and canon-sensical actual Sonic the Hedgehog 4 for massive damage to naysayers’ e-phalli. It won't happen, but it's amusing to imagine.
The thing is, Sonic 4 and Generations have different goals. They were both made for two different audiences. Sonic 4 is supposed to be easily accessible to anyone - that's why they made it across as many platforms as possible, including iDevices, and strayed away from making it a mainstream title. It takes on two tasks at once by re-introducing older fans and introducing new fans. It's supposed to bridge the gap between the two gameplay styles to ween people into the mainstream games. It was never for the people who play the Genesis games religiously or are looking for some massive-scale adventure. Generations on the other hand is for people who are already familiar with Sonic and have been following the series throughout. It's for people who already own a current game console and play it regularly. It's for people who can look at things like City Escape and say "hey, I remember that!", perhaps because they still play SA2 from time to time. Cancelling Sonic 4 just because Generations is better for people who have access to it and didn't like Episode 1 would be like closing down a mall because the clothes they sell at the shop in the rural district look nicer. Two different purposes, two different audiences. Not everybody who played Episode 1 was looking for a "Genesis experience". A lot of people who played it probably don't even recall the Genesis games (~16 years, remember) enough to care whether or not it resembles them perfectly. If anything, Generations 3DS should be cancelled - the game looks painfully primitive in both graphics and structure, and it isn't really doing anything but killing Dimps's overall approval rating, which was already low after Episode 1. The fact that they chose such a new platform to begin with pushes me away, considering I couldn't care less about the 3DS and I'm sure neither do a lot of people. I would rather see Sonic 4 - a game that more people can enjoy and have already enjoyed - continue, than to watch them hastily slap a handheld exclusive together just for the heck of doing it. If it turns out being mediocre, it's not exactly helping the 3DS either.
They could reveal in Episode II that the events in Episode I was some kind of advanced "Sonic Simulator" for Metal Sonic. OR, Generations simply occurs simultaneously before Sonic 4, and the time-warping issues screwed with the timeline somehow [ + - Modern and Classic Sonic somehow switch places in the end, canonically explaining the modern design and homing attack? (meaning that the next game will feature Classic Sonic?!) ]lol wild mass speculation
Stop toying with my emotions, man.. EDIT: It occurs to me, the ending of Generations is going to probably have Modern Sonic saying goodbye to Classic Sonic in some form. Damn when you think about it, it's gonna suck for us older fans. Seeing as this is his last official game to appear in. Like saying goodbye to your childhood. ...aw...I made myself sad.
If Sega wants Sonic 4 to be a well-respected title, they'll retcon Episode I into a "prequel chapter" to a full-size game built on Generations' Classic Sonic engine. They won't, though. This is a cash-in; always has been.
Alright guys listen, I hate to be 'that guy' here but let's not delude ourselves: Sega is NOT going to just abandon a cash cow like Sonic 4 and start over again. It just won't happen, as it was said in the interview with Hayes, Sonic 4 was a commercial success, and that's really all that matters to Sega as far as a downloadable title goes, I'm sure. Believe me, I would like to see them try again with clean slate, 'for realsies' this time, yanno? But it simply won't happen, knowing Sega.
Episode II started development in January... I wonder if Sonic Team Wii has any hand on Sonic 4 now? Of course they could just be developing another game but I'd be 1000x more interested in Sonic 4 again if ST was developing it.
I don't see why Sonic Team creating Sonic 4 would make a blind bit of difference. They fuck up more than DIMPS. Did you play Sonic The Hedgehog 2006? Did you play Shadow The Hedgehog? Sonic 4 may not be perfect, but I very highly doubt that DIMPS just took the game and did it themselves unmonitored- they would have been very closely watched, that's how these sort of things work. DIMPS don't 'create' Sonic, they just develop the main concepts into a workable, playable format which SEGA/Sonic Team says "Yes, that's cool, release it". Why do you think Sonic Advance 1, 2 and 3 were totally different to Sonic 4 despite being worked on by the same people? It's demand, and DIMPS meet that demand. At my work place, we have contractors to do the manual work, yet when shit goes down, and during the planning stages, it's still us- the main company- that spearheads it all. DIMPS are working FOR SEGA. That's it. No matter how shit you think the game is, or how much you disliked Sonic Rush and would like to blame Sonic 4 on that, it's bullcrap. The reason why the physics are off is because it was requested. The reason why the physics have overlooked issues like wall-standing is likely because it wasn't deemed as urgently important or game breaking, and was left in. That's not a choice that's often made lightly, but a choice that's unfortunately still detrimental to the game, no matter how high up on their list the devs had it in terms of ultra important stuff to do before game release. Personally, though irritating, I'd have ranked that lower than say, removing gamebreaking glitches and potential game wrecking freezes or glitches due to insufficient game testing- obviously they need to manage their time better. I do not think for one second that "DIMPS AIN'T GOT A FUXXIN CLOOO." Rather, the higher ups didn't think certain issues important enough, despite having an extra couple of months to finish the game after the leaked prototype DIMPS are a decent company, who have made decent Sonic games for over 10 years. They follow the direction they're told.
This came from Gene on #retro and might have happened at the bar. I may have forgotten about a few things since #retro got dominated by Charmy Girl and the old man behind her. Anyway, Sonic 4 can be improved, if the right people are in place. Clearly the programmers at Dimps can't handle a correct engine, yet Taxman was able to create a solid engine for his stuff.
If you were making a car that was accessible to everyone, you wouldn't release it as the new BMW M5 would you? Good point. If we're being completely honest, the physics in Generations don't look mindblowing compared to the 3DS version. They're still not up to par, and that's all on Sonic Team. I will get Generations though, because it does look good. I can see the effort put into the title, and I can see myself having fun with it. I could say neither for Sonic 4, which was a real insulting, shoddy effort of a game.
Doesn't that just contradict the whole point of the game and its marketing? The message was clear: This is Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it. I don't say that as a slight to Ken, as I think he's a really cool guy and a dedicated worker along with Aaron and the rest of the community team, but I do cite that as the essential marketing message: Guys, this is the Sonic 4 you've been waiting for. It's going to be perfect, because it'll be as you imagined it. It's a ridiculous notion, but a bold marketing move than inevitably moves paper. It was also, honestly, a verbal promise and an indication of what kind of effort and attention to detail that will be going into this. Later they backpedaled and said, "Well, what we really want to do is make this game actually sorta for new fans and old fans, y'know, so it's accessible for everyone," which is a really silly notion. How long have they been re-releasing the old Genesis games on major consoles as well as on the newer downloadable markets? And what about the popular handheld games by DIMPs? None of those were enough? Well, maybe they wanted to advertise their older stuff to the younger audience, who mostly focus on the big 3D games and/or the handheld games. Get them to tap more into the Genesis re-releases and downloadable offerings. Maybe. Hence it made way more marketing sense to call it Sonic 4 and invest an unprecedented amount of community work into the whole project, because that would make it all the more exciting and exposed for a low-budget downloadable title. The objective and the means make business sense in the immediate short-term way, but ultimately didn't result in a great game like they said it would. And that's pretty much my problem: marketing double-talk and backpedaling promoting a relatively better Sonic game than recent times, but still disappointing in its average playability. It happened with Unleashed, and it happened again with Sonic 4. I sound like I'm whining a lot over a game that honestly doesn't deserve this much talk about it. It was successful, but I didn't like it that much and I'm not alone. Sail on, sailors.
^This, each one of the two games has a different concept, Sonic 4 is a DLC title made for both modern and classic fans and despite how many people didn't like it the game was a success, it may not deserve its title but it wasn't a bad game either and shouldn't be treated like that, as it perfect? no, can it be done better and have proper physics? yes, but in the end it was fully playable and a big success, canceling it is unlikely and personally I'm looking for episode 2.
Nope. On top of that, Iizuka dropped a quote saying we all (as in the fanbase collectively) should lower our standards. How about you all do your jobs and actually develop a working game? It's embarrassing when a team of fans can make a game engine with almost no money invested into it than what a multi-million dollar company can. Sorry, Iizuka.
He seriously told some of you guys to lower your standards? I heard someone on here say he wanted people to raise their standards. Which is it?
I think that may have been a misinterpretation (likely from Iizuka himself) because raising our standards would make their job even more hard. Unless they want something far worse than the literal castration Sonic 4 got from the fans. Lowering our standards would make their jobs easier as they'd just be able to pump out games without much criticism or backlash. You know, what would be happening if they weren't lazy. At least, that's how I understand it. I had to think it over when I heard him say it. (Protip: Iizuka admitted his English isn't very good when speaking on stage at Boom.)
Sounds more like an off-the-cuff joke alluding to how unpleasant our complaining is. I'll accept that. But hey, here comes a rant anyways. He wants us to pipe down? Okay. Let him shut us up with his job as the director of Sonic Team. Or shut us out. The choice is his. I suppose we can't complain all the time about everything forever, but Sonic 4's marketing was intentionally misleading and the game itself kind of a let down. You want to make a great Genesis-style Sonic game sequel to please all of us and take our money? You literally have everything you need: it's the same four Genesis games we play all the time that your company made years ago. If you want to innovate on it, great. I'd like to see that too. I'm interested in new things that create new, fun experiences, like what you did with Sonic Colors. That was great. Not perfect, but great. I'd even be interested in seeing you bring back some of STI's scrapped ideas like the Sonic Buzzsaw or Spike Blast attack to play around with. But I'm not impressed by cookie-cutter homing-attack-and-Bubble-chain-placement level design stitched together with excessive auto-speed mechanics, like the same Chemical Plant Zone boosters every time and too many bumpers, and a predictably cheap bottomless pit segment at the end of each third act. I'm not impressed with or satisfied by passing off level designs from an Advance or Rush-style game as a classic game by ripping off mostly the visual design of a whopping two zones from Sonic 1 and 2 and expecting me to just like it. That's me, the customer, giving you my feedback on your work. The Advance series was some decent handheld fun, and your Rush series was successful and pretty fun, but if you're going to sell me a Genesis game, then I expect a classic Genesis game, especially when it's pretty much my favorite kind of Sonic game outside of a new Sonic Adventure 1 with absolutely none of the old Sonic Adventure 1's lack of polish and questionable game design choices. Sonic 4 was passable, and it was the most fun relative to recent(ly not great) 3D Sonic games. Bravo. But somehow it's still comes off as kinda boring. I wonder why?
Yeah I did. Weren't they fired, however, after '06? And that the new team have been making consistently good games since then? Did you play Sonic Unleashed? Did you play Sonic Colours? Granted, Unleashed had some bad game design decisions but Colours is pure gold and it was created by the newer Sonic Team. And even if they weren't all fired, Sonic Team has gotten their act together. The newer games should be rated based on their last game and it's been almost five years since their biggest mistake. They've been getting better, and there's no doubt in my mind that they would make a better Sonic 4 if they were up for it. Sonic Generations should be proof enough of that.
No one from Sonic 06 was fired. A lot of the same people continued to work on Sonic games. However, newer team members have taken up the reigns (as far as directing/designing goes), the producers are Advance/Rush's Akinori Nishiyama and now Iizuka) the previous team leads seem to have been relegated to Mario and Sonic duty, like Iizuka was after NiGHTS 2. Also Sonic 4 wasn't originally developed to be Sonic 4. While I doubt we'll see many fixes to our complaints in Episode 2, they might take it more seriously this time around.... maybe.
