Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Cinossu, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. MegaDash

    MegaDash

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    <!--quoteo(post=593172:date=Jun 8 2011, 03:19 AM:name=Namo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namo @ Jun 8 2011, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593172">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't mean "weird" in that way. Think of it more like "strange" as in "why the heck is Episode 2 this different from 1"? (Y'know, on the very slim chance it may be).

    I'm in the crowd also that wasn't too impressed with level design or music. I only like 1 music track and 1 level from the whole game. I quit around Metropolis-Ripoff-Zone Act 1 because I couldn't take any more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The answer is simple: a lot of people didn't like Episode 1. Or at least enough for SEGA to hear that people didn't like Episode 1.

    By the nature of it's image, it's name, and it's playability, it's no mystery why Episode 1 sold well or why people enjoyed it so much. It's SEGA finally diverging from their constant 3D game quest for mediocrity and focusing on a true return to the classic look, feel, sound, and gameplay. Technically, that's what they did. We just think they did a pretty shitty job of it, and apparently it wasn't even supposed to be Sonic 4 in the first place, so we were on to something. DIMPs can make good Rush games and good Advance games, but they can't seem to make really good Genesis games. Merely decent, cheap ones if anything. A C- or D+ where we expected SEGA to really bring their A game, where it could've counted for more than a brilliantly executed cash-in.

    I enjoyed several parts from Sonic 4, but didn't really enjoy entire zones all that much, and while the music was actually quite decent, I couldn't excuse the laughable boss theme or the special stage lullaby. I could barely pass the half-hearted final boss theme, and that was arguably the most decent part of the game.
     
  2. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

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    <!--quoteo(post=593123:date=Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM:name=MegaDash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MegaDash @ Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593123">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't remember Super Mario World being that damn floaty. It wasn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was, and is. I've even downloaded it again the virtual console, and it still feels like Mario is skating on ice. New Super Mario Bros. felt like a good mix between the old games.
     
  3. Shakidna

    Shakidna

    Rehash Rampage Member
    <a href="http://www.giantbomb.com/news/there-will-be-more-sonic-4-episodes-sega-knows-there-were-problems/3355/" target="_blank">http://www.giantbomb.com/news/there-will-b...-problems/3355/</a>

    It will never die.
     
  4. Greg the Cat

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    Whatever will make them more money will entice them to keep going.

    And to think, Retro Sonic is for Generations only. What bullshit.
     
  5. Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=593270:date=Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593270">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593123:date=Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM:name=MegaDash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MegaDash @ Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593123">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't remember Super Mario World being that damn floaty. It wasn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was, and is. I've even downloaded it again the virtual console, and it still feels like Mario is skating on ice. New Super Mario Bros. felt like a good mix between the old games.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It seem to recall Super Mario Bros. 3 being the floaty one of the bunch, actually.
     
  6. Shadow Hog

    Shadow Hog

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    <!--quoteo(post=593671:date=Jun 9 2011, 05:15 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 9 2011, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593671">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593270:date=Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593270">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593123:date=Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM:name=MegaDash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MegaDash @ Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593123">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't remember Super Mario World being that damn floaty. It wasn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It was, and is. I've even downloaded it again the virtual console, and it still feels like Mario is skating on ice. New Super Mario Bros. felt like a good mix between the old games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It seem to recall Super Mario Bros. 3 being the floaty one of the bunch, actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, SMB3 was much floatier than SMW. And skating on ice? Are we talking about the same game?
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=593767:date=Jun 9 2011, 11:20 AM:name=Shadow Hog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadow Hog @ Jun 9 2011, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593767">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593671:date=Jun 9 2011, 05:15 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 9 2011, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593671">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593270:date=Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM:name=SpeedStarTMQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpeedStarTMQ @ Jun 8 2011, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593270">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=593123:date=Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM:name=MegaDash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MegaDash @ Jun 8 2011, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=593123">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't remember Super Mario World being that damn floaty. It wasn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It was, and is. I've even downloaded it again the virtual console, and it still feels like Mario is skating on ice. New Super Mario Bros. felt like a good mix between the old games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It seem to recall Super Mario Bros. 3 being the floaty one of the bunch, actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, SMB3 was much floatier than SMW. And skating on ice? Are we talking about the same game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->PAL version. He's from the UK.
     
  8. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

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    Alright, let's clear this up. Being a British gamer doesn't mean I don't know my stuff- I'm well aware of general diffeences and I have played Super Mario Bros 3 on NES, SNES, GBA and Virtual Console, and also on emulator. All of the versions are pretty much the same. I'm sure with NES there is no significant difference between the versions as say, for example, Sonic 1.

    Super Mario World is the same, played it on SNES, GBA, Virtual Console, and emulator, and it's basically unchanged. Mario seems to have a almost floaty, sensitive jump and air physics, which means that you slip and slide around when, for example, chaining baddies. Maybe slippery was the wrong word- having just gone and played it- perhaps it seemed slippery because Mario almost moves too much when you're trying to land somewhere- it feels like you need pinpoint accuracy to hit something and move on. It also feels quite fast, whereas SMB3 felt spot on with the speed and timing and didn't require you to have to spin around in the air to actually hit a baddie such as a goomba.

    The old Mario games gave you less smoothness and more speed when jumping up and coming back down, but it's easier to gauge where you're actually going to land. New Super Mario Bros. makes things feel a bit more weighted, like playing the 3D games, and also gives you a feeling as if you've really gained power after landing on an enemy, but it never becomes slippery, though I admit I had to take half an hour to get used to the controls when I started it, and I still can't quite put my finger on why.
     
  9. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    Huh. Both I and my friend SomecallmeJohnny had an easier time with SMW's controls than we did with the others. But I guess different people adjust in different ways.

    I did enjoy the controls in NSMBWii, but I didn't play most of the old-school Mario games much before that, so there wasn't much to "adjust" to in the first place.
     
  10. MegaDash

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    Guys.

    Sonic 4.

    <a href="http://www.vg247.com/2011/06/09/sega-admits-to-quality-issues-with-sonic-4/" target="_blank">http://www.vg247.com/2011/06/09/sega-admit...s-with-sonic-4/</a>

    So Mike Hayes is pretty much saying, "We get the complaints, and while I'm satisfied with Sonic 4, the next one will be even better. But come on, though, don't you play Battlefield? Sonic 4: Episode I goes together so well with that!"

    That's what I got from it. Basically, it was great because of the history that was propped up behind it—ie the much better Sonic 1-3&K + CD games—but he admits that there were problems. And so marketing is the real deal-maker here, and that's all that this appears to be. More marketing. "The next one will be EVEN BETTER. HONEST."

    I mean, yeah, again, Sonic 4 was fun in that it was playable and did really remind me of Sonic 1 and 2. Granted. But it still sucked at living up to the hype, among other technical drawbacks like overly limited instrumentation, questionable visuals, and a damn-near dramatic difference between control feel and gameplay design. Nevertheless, Sonic 4: Episode II will sell big because of the marketing, regardless of whether or not actual improvements or more effort will be put into the game. Until I'm proven wrong, that's what I'm going with.
     
  11. Namo

    Namo

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    Seeing as how I thought Episode 1 was shit, they had fucking better take our complaints into account. I don't demand a lot out of anyone, ever, but for shit's sake.
     
  12. GeneHF

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    I was under the impression Episode 2 is on the chopping block.

    It keeps getting undercut by Sega PR ("Generations is our first attempt at a classic style Sonic game"), development on it is extremely slow (it apparently only entered development in January), and Sega's biggest attraction is Generations, which is drawing a lot of attention.

    At Sonic Boom, Jun Senoue went up on stage and played his Splash Hill Zone medley, and the first trailer for Sonic 4 was aired. Let me tell you, that was the QUIETEST that room got all night. It exploded in volume when Jun finished, grabbed his guitar and did a rock rendition of Green Hill Zone.

    I'm just saying, Sega would be wise to just swallow their pride and kill Sonic 4. I mean, that silence during the Splash Hill medley was just eerie for an event with 2000 people in a room. There is clearly little love for the game. I'd rather they focus on Generations than Ep. II.
     
  13. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    Focus on Generations, make improvements on Sonic 4 in the meantime, then ride the fanbase's happy feelings regarding Generations to sell Sonic 4 even more effectively.

    Obvious answer.
     
  14. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Only for it to come crashing down again for asinine reasons because "it isn't the Genesis games" on top of an already negative stigma to the game.

    They're better off using the resources elsewhere.
     
  15. Ollie

    Ollie

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    I hope there is an Episode II, I enjoyed the first one and I'd love to see some sort of story starting to develop in the second episode.
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->“I think* that's going to overcome some** of the issues that we had on the first one.”<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    * = "I have no knowledge of what's going on in the development process"
    ** = "Why would they bother fixing all those well-documented flaws?"


    >=(
     
  17. SteelBrush

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    The only interest I have is in seeing the story and if Sega tried to tie the end of S3K to SA1.
     
  18. SpeedStarTMQ

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    Sonic 4 was good- not brilliant- but good. I'd like them to continue it, they've basically admitted it was flawed, only classic to people who play 'battlefield' (and thus assuming have less knowledge of Sonic), and I suppose that's what they wanted- a lower budget game which would appeal to everyone. Now they know that won't just cut it with people who are major fans, they're obviously going to up their game.

    You do realise how well Sonic has been treated lately? He's become an icon again, not some old character that SEGA want to use just in random racing games. SEGA realise Sonic demands respect, and their demographic has 'changed' in their eyes- Remember Sonic X? Aimed at younger people and teens? Remember the Happy Meals? The toys? All of this accompanied the games and made the franchise seem as though it was targeted for a specific younger audience- now we have high quality models, rare, expensive stuff, retro stuff, menswear, ties, boxers (which I proudly wear to work), sweatbands, everything. Sonic games themselves have only gotten better and better, and this will only improve. They've even destroyed the childish stylings of Jason Griffith and 4Kids, and now Sonic sounds more mature, and everything's a lot more deliberate if it is goofy or immature.

    Basically, Sonic- as a franchise- is actually cool again, and SEGA aren't going to let that drop.
     
  19. OSM

    OSM

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    Definitely not going to buy or play any of the future episodes, the idea of Sonic 4 itself is already a train wreck.
     
  20. Spanner

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    <!--quoteo(post=594056:date=Jun 10 2011, 09:45 AM:name=GeneHF)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeneHF @ Jun 10 2011, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=594056">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only for it to come crashing down again for asinine reasons because "it isn't the Genesis games" on top of an already negative stigma to the game.

    They're better off using the resources elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The thing is, Sonic 4 would have probably been better if they stayed away from Dimps and had Sonic Team do everything and use their current Hedgehog Engine. Have a look at the Classic Sonic levels in Generations, and you'd see that pretty much, all the Sonic 4 levels would work well under that engine. Instead, they let Dimps shit over the game with their horrible level design choices that they refuse to drop, and they've ruined the 3DS version of Generations too by the looks of it.

    In the end, it's their own fault for not making the entire game in-house instead of being exported to Dimps. Yes, Sonic 4 was downplayed as much as possible and even Ken Balough seemed to be upset by your take yesterday, but SEGA have to realise that what they churned out wasn't what people actually imagined Sonic 4 to be.

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>But, you can fix Ken up with a few drinks, and he'll be happy again.</span>