Sonic 3's 3D Models

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Shalpp, Nov 18, 2019.

Do you prefer Knuckles' design in the concept artwork, or the 3D-render inspired artwork?

  1. Concept Artwork

    37 vote(s)
    57.8%
  2. 3D-Render Inspired

    27 vote(s)
    42.2%
  1. Despatche

    Despatche

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    A consistent look is generally best. If you use prerenders, you should generally use them across the board. DKC gets a big point in its favor simply for using prerenders for nearly everything short of text. The same applies to Sonic 3D.

    I say generally because of exceptional things like the Special Stage dilemma. CD's Special Stages are somewhat hard to follow because they use extensive 2D scaling for pseudo-3D (a difficult science by itself), but also 2D scaling on hardware that isn't purpose-built for it like the Sega Super Scaler boards. Mania did the right thing by making the Special Stage entirely 3D.
     
  2. Rlan

    Rlan

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    The Sonic & Knuckles 'Rock the Rock' video actually shows the S&K renders being worked on.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Sonic 3D Blast art on the Genesis actually changed during development too - the final game has a different render on the cover than it does on the manual and cart.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  3. Kama

    Kama

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    Preference wise, I will always favor traditionally hand-drawn designs over 3D ones. Sonic 3, however, is a frustrating beast...

    These new Knuckle sprites are indeed interesting but they're little in number and I can't make an honest assessment of them. What would he look like running, gliding or climbing? As it stands, the original sprite looks slightly thuggish and rough around the edges. His final sprite gives off a more confidant and straight posture, which I find more appealing. The 3D renders though? There's something uncanny about that shiny red dome of his...

    I have no complaints about Tails, the sprite work is near perfect, though I don't much care for the save select render...

    Sonic on the other hand? Oh boy...

    Unpopular opinion it may be but I HATE his Sonic 3 sprite. Compared to the previous games, he comes off more like a robotic mannequin instead of the organic and amusing character he was before. The overly large hands, those dead eyes...I just find it a major downgrade. Even the Super Sonic Sprite seems off with overly exaggerated spines and shrunken eyes (I won't deny the coolness factor though because it is, Super Sonic). I loved how the super spines quivered in Sonic 2 but here, they're just stationary, which makes him come off as stiff and inorganic...

    It's one of the reasons why I love Sonic 3 Complete, as I can swap it out for the Sonic 1 sprite (which stands as my personal favorite)
     
  4. Xinus

    Xinus

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    it's not like it's a different render. it more seems to be just the same image just heavily altered in an image editing tool. (the spikes are the most noticeable thing, they seem to be completely redrawn and were given that default Emboss effect programs like Photoshop have.) but in some places like the hands and the shoes the original render can still be seen.
     
  5. The model was used unedited for Sonic Blast on the Game Gear.
    [​IMG]
    And at a different angle for EU
    [​IMG]
     
  6. I felt that Sonic 3's Sonic sprite was too--I don't know how to explain, but too chubby? It's got a more "rounder" feel to it. His shoes especially, they look a bit swollen (Modern Sonic shares this, I was never really a big fan of fat-shoe Sonic. Candy corn shoes all the way. lol)

    I do like the quills on Sonic 3's sprite a little better though, but when it comes down to it, Sonic 1, Sonic 2 and Sonic Mania have the best sprites IMO.
     
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Yea I don't like Sonic 3s sprites, his face looks kinda derpy. Sonic 2 and Mania are my series favorites.
     
  8. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Every time. Every goddamn time people bring up Sonic's sprites I have to listen to people shit on the ones I like. I'm sick of it. Time for me to rant:

    Sonic 2's feel to me like an awkward middle step between 1 and 3. Sonic 2 redrew alot of the body parts for Sonic while keeping the head (mostly, I'll come back to it), and Sonic 3 finally got rid of the head for something completely unique from 1. And whereas 1 and 3 had more neutral facial expressions, in 2 he looks so irrationally pissed off, like he thinks Eggman shit in his coffee or something. When I was younger I didn't understand why Sonic 2 Sonic looked so much angrier than the other games, and in the mid-2000s when I finally compared the Sonic 1 and 2 sprites, I finally realized: it's all in the shape of the eye. Sonic 2 redrew Sonic's eyes slightly more angular than Sonic 1's, and it completely changed how I read his expression. I believe 3 kept that eye shape, but since 3's sprites are also rotated just a few degrees toward the camera, it works better. And as for the "chubbiness"...have you guys seen Sonic's official artwork? His belly is round. The tan part is supposed to take up most of the front of his torso. Sonic 1 and 2 are off-model in that way. Sonic 3 didn't make him fat, it made him more accurate. And those tiny, tiny hands! His fists are supposed to be the same size as his belly, so while it matches the Sonic 1/2 sprite, it's still off-model.

    As for the Knuckles sprites that triggered this discussion in the first place, I really do think they did a great job of matching Sonic 2's artstyle. I also think they're hideous. Comparing proto and final Knuckles's sprites to me is like comparing Sonic's original and revised movie designs. The revised one is great, and I'm amazed that a human being could have possibly thought the original looked good. Literally, during the stream, when we saw Knuckles, I shouted "Oh god! He actually used to look like that?!"

    Fuck, that felt good.
     
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  9. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Hell yeah, you tell them. Sonic 3's sprites are awesome.
    I think what I like the most about them is the smirk, it brings some attitude that was desperately missing from the Sonic 1/2 sprites.
     
  10. Naean

    Naean

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    In general, Sonic feels more expressive in Sonic 3. When he taps a foot in Sonic 3, he also leans back a bit, then points forwards with a slightly annoyed look on his face, which makes contextual sense as he's fed up of waiting. Furthermore, you actually see Sonic do his signature finger wag during level complete sequences, and beyond just the title screen, which adds to his character. :)
     
  11. Xinus

    Xinus

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    Sonic 3 sprites just felt like the logical step forward after sonic 2. they were based around the sprites from the second game but had better shading and more consistent on model look. it's always bothered me that in Sonic 2 rotational sprites sonic has his US styled spikes where in every other sprite is the normal ones.
    they also had much more expression compared to sonic's death stare in the first 2 games. they just didn't had that Sonic attitude.
     
  12. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I used to really like the Sonic 2 sprites when I was younger, but now S3K’s sprite style is my favorite.
     
  13. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Funny I went the opposite route. I liked 3's the most when I was younger but now I like 2's sprites more.

    As far as the expression is concerned though, I l like the idea but I don't think the sprites are big enough for expressions. They blend in with the shading too much. They did an ok job with Knuckles but I don't think they did a good job with Sonic
     
  14. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    It’s true that it’s a little hard to see, but I think the mouth works. It’s at its best in the Act-beaten animation, IMO, where you can actually tell Sonic’s smirking. But yeh, expressiveness with the Sonic 3 sprite works when the whole body is doing a specific motion, instead of just the head.
    (Offtopic but I also like that when Sonic’s running, his mouth disappears completely, because it makes him look like he’s really determined)
     
  15. kyasarintsu

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    I've grown increasingly fond of his appearance in the first two games. He looks so adorable in there and I feel that some of that charm is lost in 3. I know his swinging animations in the proto looked really weird but I really smiled when I saw his face. I think this design looks really good with 3's palette.
    The texturing, depth, and "shine" of 3's graphics have always rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like Sonic's new sprites that much and I really don't like how Knuckles looks (I love Mania's depiction of him), but Tails thankfully stayed cute and lovable. I love how Sonic looks in the endings and on a completed save, though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  16. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    He’s a little derpy (wouldn’t be the first time) in the screenshot, but the Sonic 1/2 design really is cute!

    The main strike against S3’s Sonic sprite would be that it can look a little muddy, but IMO it’s somewhat charming. It’s like an early 3D render!
    I also appreciate that it’s more “on-model” regarding gimmick-specific animations (re: Sonic 2 spring-spin animation).
     
  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    So moving away from "I like pretty pictures"...

    That is a Silicon Graphics Indigo 2:
    [​IMG]

    with (I think) this monitor:
    [​IMG]

    Running some version of SoftImage 3D... with a non-standard mouse (I think it's one of these by "Mouse Systems").


    SoftImage was pretty standard at the time - very possible things were shared between projects.
     
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  18. Alright, that made me laugh a bit. lol

    I guess the reason why he looks a bit "angrier" is the whole "tude" thing in the 90's. Call me a edgelord, but It's something I grew up with, so I gravitate more to that style.

    As for the chubby remark, I wasn't tryin' to shit on the design, it's just it looks chubbier than what I was used to in Sonic 1+2 (and in equal extent, Sonic CD and Sonic Mania). Not in the belly, because I know he has a little gut goin' on, but mostly in the face. It's kinda like Yoshi from the Mario games, he first looked like a dinosaur, but now he has rounder cheeks that make him look like he has a bad case of the mumps. Sonic 3's sprites kinda looks like that to me.

    Eh, but that's just it. Not saying the design is bad, it does what it sets out to do, and that's to show that it is indeed Sonic you're playing as, and if anyone likes it, cool. I don't out-right hate it, but I favor the older design is all.

    I still stand by those shoes though. lol
     
  19. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I'm sorry, I went farther than I should have, I just have to deal with shit like this in a lot of fandoms (people are constantly shilling Tommy in Power Rangers, Charizard in Pokemon, and I've got a brand new one in Dimitri from Fire Emblem), and sometimes it gets to me.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Well don't worry guy you're with friends here :V. We all like classic Sonic we just have different sprite preferences. No one is wrong, we just have different opinions (except for Sonic Blast GG sprites those were bad lol)