Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    <!--quoteo(post=465499:date=Jun 10 2010, 12:13 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 10 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465499">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay, the new walking and running sprites are now in (at least for half the directions, I couldn't be bothered doing rotated mappings, I should probably code a program to do that), and they're looking great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They aren't THAT hard, especially when you have the sprites already. =P
     
  2. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Not hard, just tedious. (And I'm talking about 90 degree rotations, not 45 degree ones. I already put the 45 degree ones in.)
     
  3. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    Oh wow, those are even easier XD

    In SonMapED, duplicate the sprite (Ctrl +D), then Edit>Transformation>Rotate 90 Degrees CW/CCW

    It makes new tiles for you even!
     
  4. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=465845:date=Jun 11 2010, 01:28 PM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Jun 11 2010, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465845">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh wow, those are even easier XD

    In SonMapED, duplicate the sprite (Ctrl +D), then Edit>Transformation>Rotate 90 Degrees CW/CCW

    It makes new tiles for you even!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ...what

    ...fff why did I not know that
     
  5. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    It wasn't there when the program first came out, but it was in the update.
     
  6. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Okay, all rotations of walking and running sprites are in now. :P

    Psi, if you don't mind, could you do the "standing and rotating" (as in on the CNZ barrels) and the "hanging off an object" (AIZ vines, Tails, etc.) animations next?

    *I didn't notice at the time, but it seems that when I fixed "smashing objects with hammer from a distance", this particular wall turned into 6 separate breakable wall objects (each 32 pixels wide, of which you need to break 4 to get through, and the other two are above them). With this in mind, should I still make it so that Amy has to press the button to destroy the wall, or should I just let her destroy it with four hammer attacks as is now the case?
     
  7. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Well now you've fixed up those, here's some MORE sprites, MWAH HAH HAH:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <!--quoteo(post=465895:date=Jun 11 2010, 04:39 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 11 2010, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465895">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still to fix:

    <strike>- Make the AIZ button-triggered wall not breakable by Amy's hammer</strike>*

    *I didn't notice at the time, but it seems that when I fixed "smashing objects with hammer from a distance", this particular wall turned into 6 separate breakable wall objects (each 32 pixels wide, of which you need to break 4 to get through, and the other two are above them). With this in mind, should I still make it so that Amy has to press the button to destroy the wall, or should I just let her destroy it with four hammer attacks as is now the case?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd probably go for PUSH BUTAN, if only because it would be kind of pointless otherwise. Also, I assume the water still drains shortly after, as I reported before?
     
  9. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    I can't remember if it's been mentioned, but will you be adding some of the features of the other Sonic 3C hack? I'd overall love to replace that one with a version that has Amy in it. Perhaps the two of you could get together on it?
     
  10. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I believe they share a codebase for the alterations in music, cutscenes, and other "Sonic 3 Complete"-ish (I.e. not new/custom) stuff, so I'd have a thought a lot of Tiddles's stuff would already be in this one. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course!
     
  11. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I've committed most of the stuff I've done back, but I don't know if it's in this version yet. I never got around to putting a few of the last 100404 bits back (Knuckles' cutscene, patchable LBZ2 boss and the LRZ3 1up fix IIRC) but I dare say I'll get to it eventually.
     
  12. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Yeah, I haven't checked the svn for ages. I'll see to that when I can find the effort. =P

    <!--quoteo(post=466067:date=Jun 12 2010, 01:20 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 12 2010, 01:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466067">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well now you've fixed up those, here's some MORE sprites, MWAH HAH HAH:

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Awesome, I'll put them in asap.

    edit: done

    <!--quoteo(post=466068:date=Jun 12 2010, 01:24 AM:name=dsrb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dsrb @ Jun 12 2010, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466068">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=465895:date=Jun 11 2010, 04:39 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 11 2010, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=465895">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still to fix:

    <strike>- Make the AIZ button-triggered wall not breakable by Amy's hammer</strike>*

    *I didn't notice at the time, but it seems that when I fixed "smashing objects with hammer from a distance", this particular wall turned into 6 separate breakable wall objects (each 32 pixels wide, of which you need to break 4 to get through, and the other two are above them). With this in mind, should I still make it so that Amy has to press the button to destroy the wall, or should I just let her destroy it with four hammer attacks as is now the case?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd probably go for PUSH BUTAN, if only because it would be kind of pointless otherwise. Also, I assume the water still drains shortly after, as I reported before?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Okay I'll see to that when I get round to it then. And yes, it does.
     
  13. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Alright, after a lot of bugfixes, I've decided to release 1.2.1 (it isn't 1.3 because there's no major addition like a new boss or level).

    All Sonic 3 zones are now playable by Amy.

    AIZ: You can fight Knuckles' midboss, but don't do it as Amy alone or you'll get stuck at a wall in act 2 that can only be climbed up by Knuckles or flew over with Amy + Tails.

    HCZ: I still haven't done anything to forcibly stop Amy getting into the original mid-boss arena, so make sure you take the route via the 4 green breakable blocks in the ceiling.

    MGZ: That spinning top in act 2 does weird stuff. Just manually maneuver it back on to the ground where it should be to proceed.

    CNZ: I don't think there's any issues with this zone...

    ICZ: You MUST take Knuckles' route all the way through the zone to avoid getting stuck. Also, just after the midboss, jump down over the rising swinging platform to find the hidden corridor with the giant ring, then hug the wall on the left to find the yellow spring to take you back to the main route. This avoids getting stuck by an unbreakable cork block.

    LBZ: The game will crash after beating the first of Sonic's bosses and jumping in the eggpod, or shortly after Knuckles' 2nd boss.

    Here's a list of fixes:
    - Lack of screen locks in zones whose ID is > Icecap
    - Jawz bug
    - Smashing objects with hammer from a distance
    - Marble Garden act 1 end signpost graphics
    - New characters on data select
    - Fixed starting locations for new character slots
    - New walking/running sprites in all rotations for Amy
    - Fixed Hyper Knuckles' graphics
    - Fixed palette cycle so Amy returns to pink, rather than red, when she de-transforms
    - Fixed Amy's air->ground hammer attack completely
    - Reset hammer position when hurt
    - Breakable walls in ICZ and LBZ are now hammer-breakable
    - That spazzy spinning top in MGZ2 still does weird shit to Amy, but it won't kill her any more and by manually maneuvering onto the ledge you can continue
    - The AIZ button-triggered wall is no longer breakable by Amy's hammer
    - And, of course, Amy's walking, running, standing rotating, rotating in a water tunnel, and ball animations have been replaced by Psi's sprites.

    Here's the remaining problems I know about that haven't been fixed yet:
    - Bubbles in HCZ2 boss load the wrong graphics
    - Add cork blocks to HCZ loops
    - Fix hyper traits so they don't screw with boss hit counters
    - Fix size of character name on the results screen (to remove gap after AMY and make Knuckles + Tails say KNUCKLES instead of KNUCK)
    - Character names and continue icons on the Special Stage result screen
    - Make Knuckles appear in the SS when you play as Knuckles + Tails
    - Life/continue icons on data select

    <span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/images/3/3f/S3C-1.2.1.zip" target="_blank">Download</a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
     
  14. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=466429:date=Jun 12 2010, 11:10 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 12 2010, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466429">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's the remaining problems I know about that haven't been fixed yet:
    - Bubbles in HCZ2 boss load the wrong graphics
    - Add cork blocks to HCZ loops
    - Fix hyper traits so they don't screw with boss hit counters
    - Fix size of character name on the results screen (to remove gap after AMY and make Knuckles + Tails say KNUCKLES instead of KNUCK)
    - Character names and continue icons on the Special Stage result screen
    - Make Knuckles appear in the SS when you play as Knuckles + Tails
    - Life/continue icons on data select<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    - Lower water when Amy takes Knuckles' route in AIZ2
    - Add a platform to help Amy up the big vertical bit where Knuckles climbs in AIZ2
    - Make boss appear when Amy takes Knuckles' route in AIZ2
    - Make water go down/teleporter appear in CNZ2 when Amy takes Knuckles' route
    - Fix Amy's ICZ1 entrance (that slope ain't made for walkin') - possibly make it the same as Tails/Knuckles depending on which route taken through CNZ2?
    - Remove cork blocks from ICZ2 loops/make them smashable with hammer

    Just a few more to think about! Anyway, it's looking great so far! The new sprites really work well, and it's nice to be able to play through a large portion of the game as a new character for once! Will all zones have a new boss, or will it only be a few?
     
  15. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=466493:date=Jun 13 2010, 03:31 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Jun 13 2010, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466493">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Fix Amy's ICZ1 entrance (that slope ain't made for walkin') - possibly make it the same as Tails/Knuckles depending on which route taken through CNZ2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Amy's entrance into ICZ will either be where Knuckles starts, if she takes the teleporter at the end of CNZ2, or in a new place altogether, if she fights Sonic's boss and thus goes to FBZ.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Remove cork blocks from ICZ2 loops/make them smashable with hammer<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nope, they previously were hammer-smashable, and I've made a conscious decision to keep the cork blocks there and not have them smashable. I need some way to block Amy's progress on routes I don't want her to take =P Amy + Tails should still be able to take those routes, assuming 2P Tails can smash cork blocks.

    The rest of the list is fair enough, though.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new sprites really work well<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, I'm very grateful to Psi for making them. In fact I should really put him in the credits on the wiki page.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's nice to be able to play through a large portion of the game as a new character for once!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's why I made this bugfix release =P Hopefully 1.3 or 2.0 (whichever is next) will have everything up to the end of LRZ playable by Amy too.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will all zones have a new boss, or will it only be a few?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not all of them. Here's the acts I'm considering making exclusive Amy bosses for:
    - AIZ2
    - HCZ1 already done
    - ICZ2
    - LBZ1
    - LBZ2
    - LRZ2
    - HPZ and the endgame (not sure exactly what I want to do with this yet)
     
  16. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
    [​IMG]

    Your rom hack gave me the blue screen of death and I get that error whenever I open it. The same thing happens when I try to play that no flickies rom hack. :/ Is there something I'm doing wrong?

    Edit-

    Okay. I was able to play the rom without getting the blue screen of death. TBH, I really dislike Amy's controls. I thought she was going to play like she did in <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=19797" target="_blank">this rom hack</a> but I was wrong. By having to use the hammer with the same button as jump, it make it really difficult to hurt enemies without getting hurt yourself. :/
     
  17. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

    & Knuckles Member
    Ok, so a few things from me (Some good, some bad, etc):
    Playing as Amy is like a breath of fresh air. I never did enjoy playing with Tails, so I picked Amy alone. I took Knuckles path in AIZ2 and expected to get stuck at the wall you mentioned. I managed to get enough speed to get passed it. I proceeded to the boss area where the water rose to half the screen, no boss and the screen locked. I presume this has yet to be fixed. So, using debug and level select, I thought I'd go to Hydrocity.
    I jumped into a bonus stage (Slot Machine) just before the mini-boss of HCZ1 and the game auto-reset just as the art was loading.
    I like the Sonic Advance boss for Amy, it's clever and is rather challenging. The ceiling of the arena is bugging me, though. Maybe use chunk 07 instead of 04, which gives the ceiling overhanging shadow, intead of just meeting the ceiling? Proceeded without much hassle through HCZ, although being forced to take Sonic's route to the boss instead of Knuckles', when I could break the wall felt weird.
    Doing a hammer jump into the blue spin-engines in MGZ can get you stuck inside them or inside the floor.
    The ice platform towers in ICZ that can be broken with Amy's hammer float if you break the lower 2 with a standing hammer attack. The ice blowers in ICZ2 are also garbled.
    The red girders are replaced with Amy heads in LBZ2 after you complete Act 1.

    I know most of this was just glitches and oddities, but I did enjoy playing as Amy so far and if the bugs are ironed out, I think she'd be a great additional character to the game. Good job so far, and I look forward to what else you have in store.
     
  18. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    <!--quoteo(post=466548:date=Jun 13 2010, 10:18 AM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ Jun 13 2010, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466548">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3730/bluescreenofdeathromhac.png" target="_blank">http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3730/bl...deathromhac.png</a>

    Your rom hack gave me the blue screen of death<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ROM hacks can't cause BSODs. That would have been the fault of either Kega or Windows.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and I get that error whenever I open it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Incorrect checksum? Yeah, I never bothered to put a checksum fixer in my build script.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TBH, I really dislike Amy's controls. I thought she was going to play like she did in <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=19797" target="_blank">this rom hack</a> but I was wrong. By having to use the hammer with the same button as jump, it make it really difficult to hurt enemies without getting hurt yourself. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait for 2.0, then there will be options to change Amy's control scheme such as using B for attacking, enabling spindash and another move I've yet to implement. The primary reason the controls are as they are is so that they won't break when debug mode is in use.

    <!--quoteo(post=466573:date=Jun 13 2010, 02:01 PM:name=D.A. Garden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (D.A. Garden @ Jun 13 2010, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=466573">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I took Knuckles path in AIZ2 and expected to get stuck at the wall you mentioned. I managed to get enough speed to get passed it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I had tried to see if it was possible to use speed to get up there, but I hadn't managed it myself.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I proceeded to the boss area where the water rose to half the screen, no boss and the screen locked. I presume this has yet to be fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, I haven't quite decided what I want to do about Amy's AIZ2 boss arrangements yet.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I jumped into a bonus stage (Slot Machine) just before the mini-boss of HCZ1 and the game auto-reset just as the art was loading.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I just checked myself and it appears that the Slot Machine stage breaks (regardless of entry point) if you enter it with Amy. I believe the other two work fine though.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the Sonic Advance boss for Amy, it's clever and is rather challenging.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks, I always liked that boss too.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ceiling of the arena is bugging me, though. Maybe use chunk 07 instead of 04, which gives the ceiling overhanging shadow, intead of just meeting the ceiling?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Right, will do that.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Proceeded without much hassle through HCZ, although being forced to take Sonic's route to the boss instead of Knuckles', when I could break the wall felt weird.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, again, not sure if I want Amy to be able to take Knuckles' path there or not.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doing a hammer jump into the blue spin-engines in MGZ can get you stuck inside them or inside the floor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Doing a hammer jump into a >45 degree slope has a chance of making you glitch through the floor, it's nothing to do with the spin triggers.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ice platform towers in ICZ that can be broken with Amy's hammer float if you break the lower 2 with a standing hammer attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is known, but I'm not sure why it happens.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ice blowers in ICZ2 are also garbled.

    The red girders are replaced with Amy heads in LBZ2 after you complete Act 1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    These are both VRAM/PLC issues which will be fixed in due course.

    Updated bug list:
    - Bubbles in HCZ2 boss load the wrong graphics
    - Add cork blocks to HCZ loops
    - Fix hyper traits so they don't screw with boss hit counters
    - Fix size of character name on the results screen (to remove gap after AMY and make Knuckles + Tails say KNUCKLES instead of KNUCK)
    - Character names and continue icons on the Special Stage result screen
    - Make Knuckles appear in the SS when you play as Knuckles + Tails
    - Life/continue icons on data select
    - Lower water when Amy takes Knuckles' route in AIZ2
    - Add a platform to help Amy up the big vertical bit where Knuckles climbs in AIZ2
    - Make boss appear when Amy takes Knuckles' route in AIZ2
    - Make water go down/teleporter appear in CNZ2 when Amy takes Knuckles' route
    - Fix slot machine bonus stage for Amy.
    - Fix ceiling of Amy's HCZ1 boss arena.
    - Make split ice columns fall if you destroy the lower ones with the hammer.
    - Fix Ice Cap and Launch Base signpost graphics issues.
     
  19. Arctides

    Arctides

    I am a bloated bag of hate. Oldbie
    I don't know if it's been mentioned in previous posts, but....

    - Completing LBZ act 2 as Amy (on Knuckles' route) will result in the game reseting, though it still allows you to progress to MHZ after the game resets.
    - After beating Sonic's first boss in LBZ as Amy, as soon as you jump into the Eggmobile, the game resets.
    - When Amy enters Hidden Palace, via Special Stage ring, the game resets.

    I'm not sure if these issues have been brought up before. I also figure I may as well ask; Will Amy get a Super form in later releases?
     
  20. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=467271:date=Jun 15 2010, 07:10 AM:name=Arctides)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arctides @ Jun 15 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=467271">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if it's been mentioned in previous posts, but....

    - Completing LBZ act 2 as Amy (on Knuckles' route) will result in the game reseting, though it still allows you to progress to MHZ after the game resets.
    - After beating Sonic's first boss in LBZ as Amy, as soon as you jump into the Eggmobile, the game resets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've known about those crashes for ages, and they were mentioned in the release post. I didn't know that it actually saved the fact that you could go to MHZ, though (since I've been using level select for almost all testing)!

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- When Amy enters Hidden Palace, via Special Stage ring, the game resets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Didn't know about that one. The game also crashes just before Robotnik appears in the HPZ cutscene, so it may have something to do with the way the emeralds work (or then again, it may not). I'll look into it.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will Amy get a Super form in later releases?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    She already has a Super/Hyper form, which is the same as Sonic's, just without the hyper dash, and with a ton of glitchy graphics. =P But yeah, I'm going to keep Super Amy, fix the glitchy graphics and give her a unique super ability (so she'll be like Super Tails, with no Hyper form and needing all 14 emeralds for her Super form).
     
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