Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. StephenUK

    StephenUK

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    After watching the videos, one thing I have noticed, that kinda breaks consistency, is that the miniboss takes 8 hits. The majority of minibosses in S3K, from what I remember, only required 6 hits. Just putting that out there, thinking you might want to change it for consistency, although I don't suppose it really matters so much.
     
  2. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=463872:date=Jun 6 2010, 07:36 AM:name=shobiz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shobiz @ Jun 6 2010, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463872">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463810:date=Jun 6 2010, 05:32 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463810">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Spinning top in MGZ2 that spazzes out and kills Amy for no reason, meaning there's no way to continue with the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're talking about what I think you're talking about I think that has more to do with the spring that launches Amy up-left diagonally when she's on the spinning top rather than the spinning top itself.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, it's that one. She does go into a glitchy animation when she hits that spring, but since the real bug occurs after she touches the ground again, I don't see what it has to do with the spring. I thought it was to do with her collision height being less than Sonic's.

    <!--quoteo(post=463891:date=Jun 6 2010, 10:04 AM:name=StephenUK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StephenUK @ Jun 6 2010, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463891">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After watching the videos, one thing I have noticed, that kinda breaks consistency, is that the miniboss takes 8 hits. The majority of minibosses in S3K, from what I remember, only required 6 hits. Just putting that out there, thinking you might want to change it for consistency, although I don't suppose it really matters so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a bug that has already been discussed. Hyper traits mess with the hitcounter, so it takes more hits than it should. As Hyper Sonic, if you don't manage to get 4 hits in your first jump, it'll take infinite hits.
     
  3. StephenUK

    StephenUK

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    <!--quoteo(post=463897:date=Jun 6 2010, 11:02 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 11:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463897">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463891:date=Jun 6 2010, 10:04 AM:name=StephenUK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StephenUK @ Jun 6 2010, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463891">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After watching the videos, one thing I have noticed, that kinda breaks consistency, is that the miniboss takes 8 hits. The majority of minibosses in S3K, from what I remember, only required 6 hits. Just putting that out there, thinking you might want to change it for consistency, although I don't suppose it really matters so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a bug that has already been discussed. Hyper traits mess with the hitcounter, so it takes more hits than it should. As Hyper Sonic, if you don't manage to get 4 hits in your first jump, it'll take infinite hits.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah, I thought the boss took 8 hits even with Amy, I thought it was something you'd programmed in, as I'd read about the bug but thought the initial hitcount was set to 8 anyway.
     
  4. <!--quoteo(post=463897:date=Jun 6 2010, 03:02 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463897">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463872:date=Jun 6 2010, 07:36 AM:name=shobiz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shobiz @ Jun 6 2010, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463872">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463810:date=Jun 6 2010, 05:32 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463810">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Spinning top in MGZ2 that spazzes out and kills Amy for no reason, meaning there's no way to continue with the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're talking about what I think you're talking about I think that has more to do with the spring that launches Amy up-left diagonally when she's on the spinning top rather than the spinning top itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, it's that one. She does go into a glitchy animation when she hits that spring, but since the real bug occurs after she touches the ground again, I don't see what it has to do with the spring. I thought it was to do with her collision height being less than Sonic's.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The reason I thought that is there are two places in that act where the up-left spring thing happens. In the first place there's an alternate spinning top (at coordinates 19A0, 838) which you can use to avoid touching the spring, and if you use it everything works out okay.
     
  5. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=463810:date=Jun 6 2010, 01:32 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463810">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Add an invisible block to HCZ to stop Amy getting into S/T/K's boss... You know what, screw that. I should obviously just make it load the boss anyway, and then have Amy get instantly killed and sent to her proper starting location like the rest of the characters. :v:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Might I suggest a "plug"-like object like the ones in Hill Top's loops, which you have to spin in order to break? That would leave Amy out while allowing Sonic, Tails and Knuckles to enter normally.
     
  6. Hayate

    Hayate

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    <!--quoteo(post=463913:date=Jun 6 2010, 12:25 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Jun 6 2010, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463913">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463810:date=Jun 6 2010, 01:32 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 6 2010, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463810">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Add an invisible block to HCZ to stop Amy getting into S/T/K's boss... You know what, screw that. I should obviously just make it load the boss anyway, and then have Amy get instantly killed and sent to her proper starting location like the rest of the characters. :v:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Might I suggest a "plug"-like object like the ones in Hill Top's loops, which you have to spin in order to break? That would leave Amy out while allowing Sonic, Tails and Knuckles to enter normally.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Now that is a brilliant idea!
     
  7. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I take it the opposite objects from AIZ (I.e. the ones broken from below) are now unbreakable since your "Smashing objects with hammer from a distance" bug fix?
     
  8. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    You can actually still break them if your hammer collides with them. I'll probably make them unbreakable too though, along with the "plug" objects in Ice Cap.
     
  9. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Hmm, I'll have to play Ice Cap in order to see what route changes that would entail. Good excuse to play S3K! :v:
     
  10. SonarDragon

    SonarDragon

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    <!--quoteo(post=463809:date=Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463809">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed leg position. Got a little engrossed and touched up your walk cycle too (as well as rotating it so you have one less 'Sonic Stunt Double' too worry about):

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wasn't too fond the shines and stuff, so I screwed with it *the first one*
    Fell free to ignore me though, it sucks.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=464030:date=Jun 6 2010, 05:01 PM:name=SonarDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SonarDragon @ Jun 6 2010, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464030">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463809:date=Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463809">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed leg position. Got a little engrossed and touched up your walk cycle too (as well as rotating it so you have one less 'Sonic Stunt Double' too worry about):

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wasn't too fond the shines and stuff, so I screwed with it *the first one*
    Fell free to ignore me though, it sucks.
    [​IMG]
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually I think that looks better, the only problem is you edited the earlier sprite with the 'wonky legs' (probably easy to edit though).
     
  12. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    I'll just let you guys sort out the sprites and I'll put them in when you're done improving them.

    It takes far too much effort to import character sprites only to then have to do it again when someone makes an improvement. =P

    But yes I agree with the new "shiny" style.
     
  13. SonarDragon

    SonarDragon

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    <!--quoteo(post=464075:date=Jun 6 2010, 07:23 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 6 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464075">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=464030:date=Jun 6 2010, 05:01 PM:name=SonarDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SonarDragon @ Jun 6 2010, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464030">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=463809:date=Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 5 2010, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463809">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed leg position. Got a little engrossed and touched up your walk cycle too (as well as rotating it so you have one less 'Sonic Stunt Double' too worry about):

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wasn't too fond the shines and stuff, so I screwed with it *the first one*
    Fell free to ignore me though, it sucks.
    [​IMG]
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually I think that looks better, the only problem is you edited the earlier sprite with the 'wonky legs' (probably easy to edit though).
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Could you fix it? I'm kinda lazy...
     
  14. Hayate

    Hayate

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    Well, this MGZ spinning top bug has me completely stumped. Apart from crashes in MHZ and HPZ, and a few objects remaining to have hammer-check code added to them, this is the ONLY thing left which inhibits Amy's progress throughout the game. And it's really annoying.

    Shobiz said it had something to do with the spring, so I tried moving the spring around, which does have an effect on where the spinning top goes, but the only way it'll actually go up the tube where it's supposed to is if I remove the spring completely.

    I'd investigate the code for it, but it's ridiculously complex (just over 3kB of code, or 1316 lines!) and I really can't be bothered with that.

    Other than removing the spring and making all players have to manually manoeuvre themselves round the corner, or editing the level to get rid of that entire area, does anyone have any ideas?
     
  15. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=464242:date=Jun 7 2010, 04:15 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 7 2010, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464242">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Other than removing the spring and making all players have to manually manoeuvre themselves round the corner, or editing the level to get rid of that entire area, does anyone have any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Whenever Amy hits a diagonal spring, she glitches up all over the place. This is particularly evident in MGZ and those badniks in CNZ. Have you fixed that yet?
     
  16. Hayate

    Hayate

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    Initially I had thought this caused the problem, so I fixed that already, but it doesn't affect the behaviour of the spinning top at all.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=464259:date=Jun 7 2010, 05:16 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 7 2010, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464259">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Initially I had thought this caused the problem, so I fixed that already, but it doesn't affect the behaviour of the spinning top at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In that case, remove that spinning top when playing as Amy, let Amy smash through the wall with her hammer, and stick springs at the bottom of that large chamber.
     
  18. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    [​IMG]

    In other news, this is the best LRZ ever.

    Yeah, I'm working on the new LRZ/HPZ sequence. I decided to reuse the multiplayer zone IDs for them to make it easier to patch (since I need to get rid of multiplayer for the ROM space anyway)

    Now... I should really go disable the 2P code... lol
     
  19. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Just a thought, I know the split screen mode works differently from Sonic 2 but could it be in any way utilized for co-op mode?
     
  20. <!--quoteo(post=464393:date=Jun 7 2010, 04:45 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 7 2010, 04:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=464393">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a thought, I know the split screen mode works differently from Sonic 2 but could it be in any way utilized for co-op mode?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Levels need to be designed specifically to be used in split-screen, because you need to work with art in 8x16 tiles instead of 8x8 tiles; if you don't do that, they won't render correctly. The levels in Sonic 3 & Knuckles probably weren't designed with that restriction (it is a restriction) in mind, so you'd have to make new levels from scratch.
     
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