Sonic 3 (Nov 3, 1993 prototype) - Technical Analysis & Research thread

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by JoseTB, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Wafer

    Wafer

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    @Epsilonsama Fairly certain the design process was:
    1: Deducing the problem as pointed out by Lurker
    2: Looking at the available inputs once the d-pad was eliminated and realizing that only the jump button was left
    3: Testing with a second tap of the jump button and realizing that people that spam the jump button out of habit would accidentally activate it
    4: Making it a short hold of jump to alleviate the problem

    In short: iteration and testing.

    Sorry if that's overly simplistic, but there's literally like 5 basic inputs in classic Sonic games, minus pause and super transformation.

    How they decided on the maths that controls the speed on landing might be a more interesting question, but having seen a disassembly of the code, I suspect the only answer you would get would be "iteration and testing".

    Edit: crap, this is how threads devolve into speculation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  2. Meat Miracle

    Meat Miracle

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    They couldn't figure out that you could move that barrel up and down by PRESSING UP AND DOWN, so don't expect the average kid playing Sonic games to be able to figure out that "different buttons do different things".
     
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  3. drx

    drx

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    :rolleyes:
    I actually kinda like it tbh, it makes sense to have a thread for hard research
     
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  4. kazblox

    kazblox

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    Diassemblies and decompilations.
    I am evil.png

    I am evil.
    I am planning to use original labels and constants through harvesting incomplete symbol dumps in Jam, S&K Collection, CD Gems, and S2 Nick Arcade. Labels that are missing, I'll have to recreate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  5. Fred

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    Okay, this is pretty cute. At $132802, there's a seemingly unreferenced KosM archive that contains all of HCZ's enemies except the flies for some reason. And in the middle of that archive, there's this little guy:

    tiny.png

    Still haven't found any mappings, but here's an educated guess. Don't talk to me or or my son.

    big.gif tiny.gif
     
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  6. Diablohead

    Diablohead

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    All I can imagine now is a train of baby badniks following the adult when it runs away.
     
  7. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    How do baby badniks work anyway? It's not like robots grow into adult forms. Eggman must have made baby forms. That's just bizarre.
     
  8. KMetalmind

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    Maybe HCZ was going to be used on 2P mode?
     
  9. Fred

    Fred

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    Absolutely not. The same KosM archive also contains the art for most other HCZ enemies, and all of them besides Turbo Spiker are regular sized.
     
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  10. SyntaxTsu

    SyntaxTsu

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    I can see why Turbo Spiker and Bugernaut were increased in size for the final game. Such tiny badniks would have been hard to see, and also rather annoying to deal with.
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I don't think that's what happened, specially when one of those two has the "baby" forms following it in the final game.
     
  12. Hez

    Hez

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    Or they didn't want to waste the graphics and added little ones to the fly? Kind of clever if that was the case.
     
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  13. Greenknight9000

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    Never in my life have I needed something that I never knew existed and just found out about so badly
     
  14. kazblox

    kazblox

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    Shifting test. DEBUG equ is set to 1 so that I can move the code at various locations. Only took a few more pointers I forgot to uncover before the game could run without disastrous results... Overall, so far so good. Still needs work, though.

    shift test.png
     
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  15. failsandwich

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    Would it be possible to transplant the prototype's music into the final version of the game, or is the sound engine too different?
     
  16. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    We can transplant music from Sonic 1 into S3K and vice versa, it is absolutely possible.

    Also, Sonic & Knuckles Collection's mod loader already has the prototype music available to use ingame, if you're into that.
     
  17. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Anyone get Sonic 3 proto disassembly set up for SonLVL yet? You know to view the layouts, tiles ect.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  18. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    Jorge Nuno from the SSRG Discord has a disassembly set up and has been posting map rips on TCRF.