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Sonic 3 & Knuckles; no-spindash?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Jayextee, Nov 27, 2008.

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  1. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Discussing this very fact right now in the IRC. Things I've noted:

    > Well, in SA the spindash could be triggered while running making it totally broken :/
    > and since you could come out running immediately after, it DID become a very cheap boost.

    Since you actually HAVE TO STOP to use the spindash in the Genesis-era titles (Labyrinth perhaps excepted) it's nowhere near as cheap.
     
  2. Robjoe

    Robjoe

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    That subroutine, provided it exists, must be in S&K. I'm pretty sure you can't run any code from the locked-on ROM; you can just access its data. However, I really can't say why they'd have Tails's spindash differ from Sonic and Knuckles's, since the three characters have the same statistics, if I recall correctly.
     
  3. roxahris

    roxahris

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    Well, that's what happens in Sonic 2. They probably made Tails a separate object in the first place because he follows Sonic around.
     
  4. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus

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    That's actually what I have been thinking. I'm going to look more closely at the code in more detail tomorrow, hopefully. I've been stuck with Semester Exams all week, but they should be finished early tomorrow. I also need to look into why the Angel Island intro for Sonic resets the game. I'm thinking that the loc I have been tinkering with to break spindash may have had a sort of tie-in to the code of Sonic's AIZ intro. It breaks at the point when Knuckles jumps off the screen. If anyone has suggestions, I'm open for them.
     
  5. I can finish Sonic 1 without spindashing. Also, this one time, I finished Sonic 3 without jumping.
     

  6. I call bullshit. There's at least one spot right in the beginning of AIZ where you gotta jump.
     
  7. JDAdams

    JDAdams

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    Not as soon as you would think. I've successfully used the rhinobot to get over the first two sets of spikes (towards the swinging vines), then you can spin-dash onto and bounce off a coconuts to get through the next bit, and from there it's pretty smooth sailing to the mini-boss' first appearance. After that however, you need to jump onto a ledge with a star post to continue and this is, as far as I can see, where a no-jump run ends. Even if you could get past that one there's a point not much further on where you are stuck underwater with a lift you can't jump on and an enemy that doesn't give you enough height. Shenanigans!
     
  8. MoI

    MoI

    Rex Member
    Or just use Tails to carry you when you need to jump. :P

    It's still a jumpless Sonic run, though.
     
  9. I'll have to test the Sonic 3 one, maybe even test it with Sonic 2 & Sonic & Knuckles as well for kicks. Also LOL at the 1st.
     
  10. JDAdams

    JDAdams

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    Already tested Sonic 3 - not possible without help from Tails, you can't even clear one act! Sonic 2 is better, I've cleared EHZ, but you need to jump to open the capsule. Assuming this is allowed, CPZ1 can be cleared but a cork blocks the way very early in CPZ2 :-(
     
  11. Gregster

    Gregster

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    Initially, I objected to Sega's decision to transform the Light-Speed Dash from a charged technique (Sonic Adventure) to a one-button-press automatic move (Sonic Adventure 2).

    I love Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but in terms of actual physics and Sonic controls, I prefer Sonic CD, which boasts an extremely sharp handling Sonic and a much weaker Spin Dash that forces you to really think before using it.

    We know it takes a while to warm up, cannot be revved-up by pressing the button repeatedly, and letting go causes Sonic to return to a standstill. In addition, it does not bring Sonic to maximum speed. To accomplish that feat, there is the Figure Eight Super Peel-Out, which I use more often because of just how much fun it is. But the Peel Out makes you go so fast that you often can't control yourself, you do not spin ergo are vulnerable to any Badnik in your way, and you cannot accelerate to maximum speed underwater. It is also very difficult to pull off a jump immediately after performing a Spin-Dash or Super Peel Out in Sonic CD. In Sonic 2 or Sonic 3K, it is easy.

    Sonic CD, with its Peel Out and Spin Dash variants, may very well represent the closest thing to "fair," but the improved handling is an unknown factor. Is Sonic CD's physics model too easy? Too hard? You decide.

    It'd be interesting to see the results of transplanting Sonic CD's physics model into Sonic 3 and Knuckles. You'd still have spin dash, but you would no longer be able to blast through the stage with it.
     
  12. TheLazenby

    TheLazenby

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    I dunno, would it even be possible to beat *any* of the Sonic 3 bosses without jumping? I mean, Launch Base alone you have to jump twice to get up to him...
     
  13. Vaiyt

    Vaiyt

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    I never use the spindash that often. You have to stop to use it, and it's not really that fun. It's intended to be a move for those places where you just didn't get enough speed.

    Only Sonic Adventure had a spindash that was better than running... but then again the spindash was also more fun than running and had more interesting physics applications. I'm not complaining.
     
  14. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus

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    While messing with the disassembly, I discovered a glitch in the code of the disassembly: when the compiled cart is combined with Sonic 3, if you try to play as Sonic at the beginning of the game, the game will have the standard beginning, then at the point when Knuckles laughs, as soon as he is about to jump off, the game resets and goes back to the title. I am not sure what is causing it, but any help regarding patching this issue would be appreciated. I'll try and patch it, but I am not as experianced in ASM as many on this board, so I most likely will not progress far.

    EDIT: I took a clean disassembly and made the change to the Music Padding to fix the sound, then compiled and combined the rom to Sonic 3. Same thing. So the error is not caused by any of my edits. I also found another place where the exact same thing happens: Mushroom Hill Zone Act 1 with Sonic/Tails/Sonic & Tails. It happens when Knuckles comes out of the hallway, looks, and presses the button. The connection between the two: the reset happens exactly when the music for Knuckles transitions back to the Act's music. I'm wondering if the error is tied to the error is tied to either the music padding (which I highly doubt because of Stealth's vast skill in assembly, but it may need a slight alteration), or if it is tied to the code associated with the transition between music.

    Just thinking out loud. If anyone has any ideas on fixing this, please PM me. I'll experiment and see if I can get anywhere, but I think this is beginning to climb out of my range of current ability and fall more into that of more elite assembly editors.
     
  15. Axielicious

    Axielicious

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    I don't believe the Spindash is broken, as, like muteKi said, you need to stand still to use it. I myself only use it on those parts where you need to break walls, or similar, not as a speed boost - it's not even that good as a speed boost anyway - the speed boosts in recent games, such as Rush or Unleashed, are cheaper, as you can use them while running, they actually make you very fast, AND you just headbutt enemies while you run for the win. Spindash is not as nearly as cheap. You still need to "earn your speed" on most situations.

    Plus, breaking walls without Spindash, like in Sonic 1, is not very practical. D=

    But I do believe that it is possible to complete the games without Spindashing, bar S&K's grabbing vines in Mushroom Hill and maybe those blue dynamos in S3's Marble Garden (I think you can finish an act without having to use one, though). You still can break walls in the good old Sonic 1 way, after all.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

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    ...wait, you spin dash on the top-like things? I didn't ever think that would be a reasonable way of getting around on them.
     
  17. Maxd

    Maxd

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    I'm posting off my brother's PSP, so I'll make this quick: it is currently impossible to beat S3K without spindashing. Why? Lava Reef Zone Act 1: you can't do crap without spindash. Iron Sonic is up for the challenge. I am. So is shobiz. Anyone else is welcome to try it too.
     
  18. DTX

    DTX

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    Wait a minute... Ninjajuice66, did you by any chance "beat Sonic 3 without jumping" by using Debug Mode? Because I can see just no other way you could have pulled that pff; with Debug Mode, one can simply skip ahead to the end of the level without jumping, and use S box to become super and -- utilizing the "skipping" capabilities of Debug Mode again -- drag Sonic, Miles or Knuckles above (or in the same space as) the boss/mid-boss and drop him, in his super form, onto the boss. Of course, one needn't do this for every level -- one could simply head to the 2nd Act of the last level and use that method I suggested ninjajuice66 had used and still technically finish it. The more I think about it, the surer I feel; you really did use Debug Mode, didn't you?
     
  19. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Doomsday Zone doesn't have an Act 2, though. :P

    Besides, you don't need to jump in Doomsday Zone.
     
  20. How can you beat IceCap if you don't spindash after you get off the snowboard? The only way to beat icecap without the spindash is using debug mode and that goes for lava reef as well as sandopolis.
     
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