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Sonic 3 HD

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Relick, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. LockOnRommy11

    LockOnRommy11

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    As much as Tweaker's comments would have been too much for me to bear had I been in your shoes (I'm a delicate little flower), I can understand where's he's coming from- what is it that sets this project apart from the rest? It would be nice for people on this board to have a good balance of critique and gentlemanly demeanor though, it gives this community the sense that it's mature, something we need to be reminded of; we are.

    Having said that, do you really want to set this project apart from the rest? What's wrong with being intergrated with others, especially Sonic 2 HD? This project is at a very early stage in development- obviously it's a WIP, and you've got a lot of stuff to refine and resolve, but you're there quicker than I would have anticipated. I was a little irked about having to download extra stuff to get the game to work when other games like Fan Remix and Nexus run off their own backs, but it looks like a neat game so far, even if I feel that the concept of the whole game itself isn't very interesting anymore (We've been waiting for Sonic 2 HD for years, and I pretty much gave up on seeing that because I have a short amount of patience).

    It's your project, but what I would like to see is YOUR take on Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Do it how YOU want to. Was there something in that game that pissed you off? Change it! Don't completely create your game to suit every single person, but create it in a way where you think people will be happy, and you'll feel less like a community whore- that way you keep the spirit of what you wanted created, and you'll retain that little bit of your soul.

    TL;DR; I like the game. Nothing majorly sets it apart from anything else, but that's not the main objective of the game. The art is good, needs improving and needs more depth added to the gradients and contrast, and I think we need to see more shading and minor detail like leaves and textured bark on trees etc. That said, you told us the art was still in progress and you were up front about it and have given this a real go.

    Kudos.
     
  2. Damizean

    Damizean

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    https://rapidshare.com/files/1343325069/ChemicalPlantWip.rar
    http://www.aethermachine.com/secret/eggengine/
     
  3. Dario FF

    Dario FF

    Tech Support Hotline Tech Member
    Except not everyone needs to just use Windows and would appreciate some cross-platform compatibility as well when there's no particular reason to only use XNA.

    XP isn't dead yet... Steam community stats, 16% of Steam users from the HW survey with Windows XP 32 bit, even surpassing Vista. That's not an ammount to shoot down with "it's dead".

    EDIT: It "should" be dead is another discussion though. :v:
     
  4. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    Echoing this statement. With that engine, your team can focus much more rigorously on the art being improved (instead of perfecting the engine), and thus improve the project's overall quality at least one-hundred-fold. I'm definitely looking forward to the potential of this project being truly realized.
     
  5. null1024

    null1024

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    Jeez, seeing tons of hate for this. Not that it is all unwarranted, but this is an effort, and it could go somewhere. At least it has something playable for us to yell at. :v:

    The demo runs well on my netbook. Great. Took ages to install .NET 4.0, but otherwise things went well.
    The lack of DirectInput controller support is annoying, but eh, Joy2Key.
    The physics are totally broken [like, not broken in the way Sonic 4 is, but just glitchy as hell], but you know this, and I hope to see things get better from here.
    And even though it doesn't look particularly good visually [too vector, too shiny, etc], I like it more than Sonic 4's look. Which isn't hard, but still.
     
  6. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    Well screw you, too. I don't appreciate being locked out in the cold just because you think the operating system I'm unfortunately tethered to is "dead".
     
  7. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    Gave this a spin on my XP machine (hurr gene ignores previous discussion in thread because fuck you) and boy, did it nearly destroy it. Poor thing kept barfing up BSODs until I straight up gutted all the stuff tied to this game.

    That said, I still got to play it intermittently, and as a 17 year veteran of Sonic 3 I have to say...

    For all that is good and holy, either throw this back in the easy bake oven for more dev time or just stop right now.

    I thought Axiom was one of the more egregious abuses of trying to be a Sonic game on Flash but this... granted it's not QUITE flash, but it felt like Sonic was a shopping trolley on oil-slicked ice. Nevermind the art work alone needs a serious slap in the upgrade department. It honestly felt like the tiles were slapped in Photoshop and some sort of nasty plastic effect was plastered all over them with a liberal dashing of gradients. It just looks really sloppy.

    I'm not going to berate the project to the point in saying that it feels like an obvious cash-in on whatever attention Sonic 2 HD got, but if you're going to at least be mimicking the development style, put more heart into this project because it feels far too much like "Look! Look! We can do this too!"--little ignored brother syndrome. I don't know if you guys have the talent potential available to improve because right now it's not looking too good. Your artists should study the Sonic 2 HD project to get ideas on how to translate the original tiles and updating them while keeping the same charm they possessed originally. It would do A LOT more for the look than feel like some cheaply made 5-minute slap jobs in Photoshop and Illustrator.

    Especially those emeralds. Eugh!

    As for music? I had that muted. Enough said.
     
  8. winterhell

    winterhell

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    Thanks null1024, you are one of the few to realize the physics are not actually wrong but rather have bugs(which were actually 4 missing features for the walls and ceilings, I've already fixed them). And I plan to include DirectInput beucase as of now only XInput is supported.

    About the XP debate, if you don't remember 10 years ago the same thing was XP versus 98. How The 98 was better, could run Norton Antivirus '83 and 4 bit applications, and had integrated DOS. Sure, there are still people that will stay with XP due to lack of drivers for TV tuners and scanners, but the mass is moving on.
    About how many people did I ask XP is dead? I asked the millions that bought or played otherwise Battlefield 3. Go tell EA to go OpenGL to cover the 3% people with XP and Mac that actually have the hardware to run the game.
     
  9. Dario FF

    Dario FF

    Tech Support Hotline Tech Member
    You're asking the wrong crowd then, because BF3 was the main reason for some people for upgrading their hardware, or setting up for it, including lots of people going to Vista/7 for DX11 driver support.

    We're talking about a high-resolution 2D game here though. Think of hardware requirements like say, Bastion's. There's no reason to bloat more software than what's needed to it if it's gonna stay a 2D game with some 3D simple routines like fragment shaders or such... Imagine if Plants VS Zombies had a Windows 7 only requirement.

    Look, here's my simple opinion on how to approach it. If you're a high-profile company, looking to release the next-million-seller game, you already have a set crowd of fans, and they'll probably go to new lengths and upgrade to play your game. They even shoved Origin into BF3 and people had to "accept" it.

    If you're a simple internet project, you want to reach as much people as possible, particularly when there's no reason to require newer OS/Hardware. People noticed that with having to install 2 software dependencies, and they're not happy with it, as evidenced already on this thread. I already pointed out free software alternatives to consider.
     
  10. Falk

    Falk

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    Are you really comparing yourselves to EA? People bitched about Origin but bit the bullet and installed it anyway because they -wanted- to play BF3. Unless you're comfortable saying S3HD has the same pulling power as a millions-budget triple-A title, I'd say you want to cater to as wide a userbase as possible, especially considering this particular userbase... 'likes old things'.

    edit: Aaaand, having windows open for a while is dumb. I'm bad at forums. :(
     
  11. Sik

    Sik

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    being an asshole =P
    The big issue with XP was that a lot of DOS programs were breaking like crazy, and they weren't exactly old programs. There were DOS games as late as 1999, maybe even 2000. So no, the comparison doesn't stand.

    Also I didn't check the game and I have no plans to, but I assume that then S3HD will be 64-bit only?

    PS: to all those who think some of the criticism was harsh, take mine: the only way I'm gonna tolerate a Sonic 3 remake is if it's done the same way as Generations and must look like the most awesome game ever possible. No exception.
     
  12. winterhell

    winterhell

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    The game will stay 32-bit compatible as it works fine on Pentium 4 and the final version will likely not requre more than 512 MB of ram.
    As for the dependencies, I'll make a silent installer.
     
  13. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I'm using XP and I haven't had any problems with this.
     
  14. DNLeal

    DNLeal

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    Reading the archives...
    So I gave this a shot not too long ago. Despite what everyone has said with the artwork, the bugs, the style, I'm probably not gonna touch those subjects critically and furthermore will not even compare it to S2HD, so moving on.

    First of all: I'm ok with this demo, good job. I like that there's something we can see, try, critique, etc. You guys did something and you should really just keep it up. Right now, as many have said before, your priority is to research more, first in the gameplay aspect and then focus in the graphics department by looking and trying more options.

    As for more of personal opinion, once you reach the graphics side, I would really not like to see 3D models reach this project and I suggest to explore more in the 2D just yet before grabbing the classic sonic gens model. For now don't draw just 1 Sonic and ask us what we think of it just yet, hell, it would be great if you could draw 40 Sonics on one single PSD file colored and drawn in different styles (specially if more on your team can draw). The key here is to look for options and cross out what cannot be done and what does work.

    All in all, you guys got something, and just aim to complete things with what you have, be it a S3HD project or something else.
     
  15. Conan Kudo

    Conan Kudo

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    I suggested SDL because SDL has the ability to use software rendering or OpenGL. And SDL is a very light library that abstracts away the low level crap like input management while still letting you use whatever you want to supplement it. And it is portable. It works on game consoles, Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, smartphones, tablets, etc. There's very few modern platforms that SDL doesn't work on. If you don't like SDL, then you can use the (slightly heavier but more capable) Allegro 5 library.
     
  16. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

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    Wow, good luck redoing the whole damn game.
    You're probably already aware of any faults, so I won't bother picking at them. One thing I don't like though is the style of the art, The gradients and soft brushes don't describe any of the forms properly. And the differences between detailed/textured areas and flat coloured areas is a bit uncomfortable.
     
  17. Perfect Chaos Zero

    Perfect Chaos Zero

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    Your abrasive attitude towards an entire user base that is clearly much larger than you think is not a good way to win you any fans.



    Blaze's statement is a perfect example. If you'd been like, "Sorry guys, we just couldn't work in XP so and so", that'd be one thing, but instead you act like a jerk about it. There's tons of XP users out there and essentially implying, "Your shit is dead so no one gives a fuck about you" doesn't fill ANYONE with warm fuzzy feelings, XP user or not. Being presumptuous and making arrogant blanket statement aren't exactly polite either. Try to be a bit more personable and community savvy dude. Instead of promoting anything, you're just making yourself look like a jackass.

    Now don't get me wrong here good sirs, I'm not trying to call you a jack ass, offend, call you names or shit in your picnic basket. I'm just trying to call your attention to the fact that you're giving off some serious negative vibes and it's reflecting very poorly on you. You have the power to fix that, very easily. I recommend you do so, because I think it would be really awesome if you did that. I hope you think about that, chill out and have a nice day.
     
  18. winterhell

    winterhell

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    As I mentioned earlier, our options are either drop Windows XP AND the dependencies, or still support XP and have silent installation for .net and XNA.
    Most people here raged about the dependencies so what should we choose ?
     
  19. Namo

    Namo

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    Pretty sure its more important to support as many operating systems as possible. Additionally you could have a setup program and have the .net and XNA things install alongside the main program; a lot of installers take this route these days anyway.
     
  20. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    9 out of 10 games I install on Steam nowadays have to sit there and check to make sure I have the latest .NET libraries and Visual C++ 2005 and Direct X and what-the-fuck-ever before booting up the first time.

    Let those whining about dependencies suck it up. They probably already have that stuff without even realizing it.