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Sonic 3 HD

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Relick, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    That new Sonic is just as bad, only different. In fact I'd swear the last one was better.
    I suggest you stick to a prerender from the model.

    If you guys are scrapping it and starting over, try using an engine or some way that doesn't require those dependencies. You talk about the requirements of Fan Remix turning people away, but the way it is now isn't much different.
  2. saxman


    Oldbie Tech Member
    I refuse to bandwagon here. You know, you're an asshole. Go ahead and warn me or whatever garbage you do to people who disagree. But you are. You're rude to people. You act like you're better than anyone else. You do NOT have my respect. You lost it a long time ago. It's time to grow up. You're not 14 anymore.

    I applaud the S3HD people for trying to put something together that pleases the fans.
  3. Ritz


    Subhedgehog Member
    So long as we're getting personal here, I don't think I ever took the time to mention how adorable Saxman is in his videos. He's the most tolerable Republican.
  4. Covarr


    Sentient Cash Register Member
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Realtime 3D would likely be a bad idea, yeah, but don't be so quick to dismiss prerendered 3D, like that seen in Sonic 4 Episode 1 Donkey Kong Country. It's a great way of getting a somewhat 3D look in a 2D environment, and pretty much takes care of consistent shading.
  5. LOst


    Tech Member
    Is this some kind of mock S2HD or steal S2HD's spotlight? I really thought so the first time I heard about this project. I hope you say no to this question.

    Relick and winterhell. You have been able to get alot done in 3 months!
    The best thing so far is the consistent graphics quality. This is easily done when only one guy makes the art though.

    Once you raise the quality, things will take much much longer time to complete. That's the downside. Also, for every quality change, everything has to be redone. So where do you see yourself in a year from now?

    Now, you will not impress me further unless the programming gets up the S3&K's level of quality. That's why I am not touching S3&K myself, because it requires extreme knowledge and talent, and years of research.

    You beat Sonic 4 Episode 1 though! Achievement? No. That's too easy for fans to achieve nowdays.
  6. Tweaker


  7. Relick


    C++/DX10 Engine (not sonic related)
    Hey thanks :) (you too saxman).

    I am not the only guy who makes the art, in fact I've made very little of the art. There are a bunch of other guys though who are way better at art than me and are working on improving the quality massively. We've got a character artist, and a badnik/boss artist but we've yet to get a dedicated level artist.
    Well, we decided that we'd move onto Angel Island (taking in the critique of you guys) and make it awesome. So in a year I'd hope we've completed both Act 1 and Act 2 (at least, maybe more). Angel Island's a hard one to do, because it's all rig ragged and has so much detail (even at genesis level), so it might take longer than some of the other zones.

    As for the programming, we'll be getting there over the next year. The main thing we need to fix is loops and the rest of the physics is just bugfixing and value editing.
  8. Perfect Chaos Zero

    Perfect Chaos Zero

    Notoriously Inebriated Oldbie
    Now Sax, whether you got a problem with Tweaker or whatever, that's not my business, that's your shit, fine whatever. That said however, I gotta say, -5 coolness points for wigging out on an individual person in a thread and then having one sentence that's actually on topic.

    See this here homie? Was it really necessary to freak out like that? Clearly you have some sort of aggression or tension built towards Tweaker. Perhaps you should pm him and try and work that out between each other. These negative vibes you got going are not making this thread any more groovy, so just stop. Chill out man, fix yourself a drink and don't fly off the handle so easily, alright brah? We're all adults here, it's just not necessary my friend. Relax, it's okay.

    That said, while I like the idea of making a remake of Sonic 3 "in HD", I myself am not a big fan of the artwork featured in this particular project, but I don't necessarily hate it or outright dislike it. That said, I think the project as a whole was a bit premature for a release, especially in terms of the engine. That doesn't mean the game is bad by any means, but I think maybe y'all should have made a few videos, maybe iron shit out a bit so people can actually see something that feels like, "wow this is an advanced version of Sonic 3", instead of "this is a poor imitation with ass random art". This is the cause of much of the criticism this project has received. That's not to say the project will or will not become "really good" or not, but frankly at this point there's a lot of work that needs to be done because what's present doesn't cut it.

    I think you guys ought to get more input on the individual components first before trying to release a "pre-demo". I hypothesize, based on my personal observations in the past, that titles like "pre-demo" and so on are often precursors to drama. The reasoning is simple, if you yourself, are not confident enough in what you have right now, to even actually call it a full demo, you know deep down that it's not something worth showing to everyone in full just yet. Releasing anything like is just wasting valuable time that could be spent getting more specific opinions and refining what you got, as well as giving your game a lesser reputation than what it deserves. Refine it, make it better, release a demo you can be truly proud of. Try not to settle so easily.

    Don't just release something to get your name out. If the quality is there, the word WILL get out. How much work did you just scrap all at once just now? Take your time guys, don't rush. I recommend, though I by no means insist that the best time to release a demo is when you have a product that you can play and say to yourself, "I am legitimately having a significant amount of fun playing this video game" for a period of more than 5-10 minutes. That's when you are ready to release a demo, in my personal opinion.

    Releasing a "pre-demo" just riles people up when there's something they don't like, cause they're liable to take it more seriously than being shown that component separately and asked for an opinion. However, it really does seem to me like this project has a really amazing potential, but it just isn't being met yet and I sincerely wish the team members the best of luck in getting it up to spec. This is all just my personal advice and opinion. It's not the end of the world if you disagree with me. I could be wrong on any of these accounts. I'm just a guy who's been in the fan gaming scene for way too damn long.

  9. SteelBrush


    603e Member
    the home of spotted dick, Devon
    Tramadol, Tamazepam and finding a reason to exist.
    Why don't you take the project in a new direction. The game needs to offer a new experience over the original. Think about how S3K would have been if it was on the Saturn or 32x and use that to create a new art direction based off the existing level themes.
  10. Ritz


    Subhedgehog Member
    That's where my comment about artistic skill comes in. Anyone can replicate art with enough technical knowledge, but I count six, maybe seven people in this community creative enough to produce original 2D level assets, and only one of them does it well. And that's just pixel art! It's a totally different skill set and these guys almost certainly couldn't manage it.
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    no reverse gear Wiki Sysop
    Northumberland, UK
    steamboat wiki
    a.k.a. borrow the graphics from Sonic 2 HD? Sonic artwork didn't exactly change a whole lot between the two games.
  12. Relick


    C++/DX10 Engine (not sonic related)
    We've spoken to S2HD and we've agreed to create all assets ourselves, no taking from the other project.

    Sure it would save a lot of time making Sonic but I for one would feel really guilty because they would have had to spend the time making it. It might be perfect for what we want, but it's not right to steal people's artwork.
  13. Dario FF

    Dario FF

    Tech Support Hotline Tech Member
    I say don't worry about the artwork too much at the moment, focus on getting up a playable engine that is able to replicate the original gameplay decently and handle anything you need for all the levels. You wouldn't like to see running into a problem which means you have to entirely rework your map's save data because you had to add sequences or something. Also, don't merge the game logic with graphics rendering at all. Heck, you got XNA available, who says you might even have the idea of making it 3D later!

    You can look for some pretty accurate physics on some open-source projects around, or heck, even the whole wiki data. THEN you should worry later about graphics. Heck, if you want a reference, even Sonic Generations doesn't depend at all on level geometry. As long as it has the physics collision files, the game is playable with no stage actually being rendered.

    Open Sonic, source code available.

    That one was pretty reliable the last time I checked. You can use it for reference on how to build any gameplay you need. When you've reached the point you can actually replicate all the game's stages without severe glitches, even with placeholder art, you can worry about artistic direction then.

    Of course, reinterpretation of the whole game would be a much funner idea(hence, why everyone is jizzing over the idea of seeing Sonic 3K stages on Generations), but if you're aiming for making an updated version of the game, it would be a more organized way to do it.
  14. Jayextee


    Unpopular Opinions™ Member
    Atro City
    Bizarrely, I like the early development here. However, I see this progress more what I would call a concept image; albiet in motion, if you follow. It's one possible look the project could have.

    My advice? Do this again. Different zone, so you remain sane throughout, but a different approach, too. Go hogwild. Pop-art S3K, cel-shaded S3K, even texturise the fuck out of it (because I wouldn't mind S3K made out of fabrics and cardboard a la Yoshi's Story, and don't care if I'm alone with it).

    To have got this much done so quickly means you're dedicated, and this is good. But find a decent style (which will be difficult given S3K's inconsistent mish-mash, but that's by the by) before making the other zones. Being slavish to the original graphics will only get you so far, you're going to have to create something fresh to really impress.

    I remember getting a message about this project from my YouTube about some cloud graphic I quickly knocked out in the early days of S2HD (where I tried to get the guys doing exactly as I've just suggested now) and linked to a very early progress (I think you had the title card font and a mushroom. That was about it), and you've come along so damn well since then. But it's not time to knock out final graphics yet, but find out the best method to do so. Part of trying the different styles entails the experience of making the graphics - you may find something that looks great and takes next to no time to produce - the holy grail of design.

    Just don't go hell-for-leather with what you've got right now. It's good, but lacks a lot of what is required to be great.
  15. Eduardo Knuckles

    Eduardo Knuckles

    Not a loved one, but the most hated person. Banned
    Someplace somewhere
    Project S.A.M.G.
    Fortunately I'm not the only one here that see a potential and a good future in this HD remake. I didn't played it yet because of my video board that broke sometime ago, but I've seen the video. The remake's idea looks really good, but I fell the lack of the background deformation/scrolling. This need different layers, if you pay attention on the original game you'll see that the background of the levels aren't 100% solid like walls. The S3 HD remake needs this. Also my major complaint is about the music. I think it's too simple and too much like its original song. I know that this is a remake, but high quality music needs much than simply instrument changes and equalization. Take this as example of what I mean to.
  16. Me too, I do also see a lot of potential in this fangame. I love the improvements of the graphics there. Great work, keep up your good work, guys! :)
  17. Cinossu


    London, UK
    Sonic the Hedgehog Extended Edition
    Time for my two pence, I guess.

    I've kinda been following this since its "conception", mainly the artwork stuff, and then lost interest after a while. From what I remember, the Mushroom Hill background looked wonderfully detailed, and even now it does too. The rest here, however, not so much. The foreground tiles look like rubber, with no definition beyond a simple resize, smooth out and gradient. The sprites.. they look diabolical. Sonic looks like an accident with a resize and vector tool, and the rest.. just, no. Artwise, take your cue from the background art; HD doesn't mean resize and smooth out, it means adding quality and detail too. Gradients aren't the end-all and be-all of things, add some texture and actual shading, too. Oh, and whoever did that spring and thought it looked good needs their brain thrown away and replaced.

    Programming-wise, oh dear. This feels like a fangame circa-2002, when we had just realised about "Static Engines" (despite there being a whole fucking tutorial based on it in The Games Factory). Not good. Go back and learn what Sonic games feel like, look at disassemblies to find out for yourself how they were programmed. This isn't a case of getting it to look right, it doesn't even just need to feel right, it needs to be right, especially for an "HD remake".

    On the music front, three words. Don't. Use. Soundfonts. Or rather, don't just use soundfonts. I used to do that shit years ago, and looking back and listening to that hurts my ears. Arranging isn't just a case of throwing in a MIDI and rendering with a bit of reverb, you need to learn the song, rearrange it, add things to it, and make it sound polished.

    Unfortunately, polish is something this game does not have. For three months of work, I'm sorry, but this does not cut it. The screenshots look pretty when they're static, even though there are glaring mistakes, but playing it makes it all the worse.

    Does this have potential? Yes, any project like this does. Does it show promise for said potential right now? No.

    Also, saxman, good job on being a dick. :D Keep that shit to PMs next time if you're not happy with someone, it just turns topics into flamewars.
  18. Yuzoboy


    I truly think the main thing you should focus on at the moment is the game engine and the physics. Im sure you're aware that Sonic's movement through the level and the collisions need more work, but im sure you can implement these in due time. Once that is fully complete, the design can be tweaked to the standards fitting for a Sonic 3 HD remake. Gameplay over design for me.

    I also commend your use of XNA, my experience with it was good, but felt it was a bit slow for a feature-ridden game. Take into account the feedback and go about it with your own well though-out direction, will be interesting to see the level of quality you can produce with this project:)
  19. dsrb


    QFT. Please read both of these posts about a hundred times!

    This will be immeasurably better (and at all interesting to anyone who thinks as I do) if you reimagine rather than re-present.

    Edit: I'm not so sure about the above recommendation that you prioritise gameplay over design. While the former should not be neglected, I don't think it should be the centrepiece: I assume the entire point of the project is to improve the graphics (and, secondarily, the music), so I would think that should be the focus. Anyway, if you can get the graphics looking good enough, you might end up with people throwing finished totally accurate engines at you!
  20. Compsense


    NC, USA
    some dance album or summat
    I didn't follow the progress of this at all, and I didn't even know this project existed until 10-15 minutes ago. I glanced over the first page of posts, but otherwise I haven't bothered reading any other replies to the thread. I am remaining purposefully uninformed.

    Anyway, my initial reaction was ":D" and I do believe I smiled within the first 5-10 seconds of gameplay. I'm easy to please, but I thought this was pretty darn cool! Obviously there's unfinished and broken aspects of the game, but they were to be expected, and it seems as if most of the basic stuff is working properly.
    I'm looking foward to future updates and releases :3

    Edit: I just noticed, but it seems weird for the entire background to move at the same speed. It feels like I'm playing in front of a giant painting. Having the various background elements moving at different speeds in relation to their supposed distance from the foreground would eliminate that illusion, although someone else has probably already mentioned this - in fact, you were probably already aware of it =P