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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Yes, you have said too much. You've piqued my interest. Mind letting us in on the reasons behind your 'secret' fix? :P
     
  2. Liliam

    Liliam

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    I think the idea is more that, if you want to find out more, you're free to do your own research.

    My curiosity was piqued too, so I had to check it out, and was surprised to find something I already knew about, but had since faded into obscurity. "Oh! It's <insert pet name here>! I forgot this was a thing." Fun stuff.
     
  3. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I was assuming it was a sprite limitation because the mushroom caps are almost level with the text. The issue shows up a bit on S&K even, though it's probably not as severe as it would be with that starting location and the MUSHROOM VALLEY text (which was probably shortened because that long a text + scanline sprite limitations = redrawing issues like these).
     
  4. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    Reaaaaaaaally minor stuff to report:

    • If you set the results music to the S1/2 version, then clear Carnival Night Act 2 as Super Knuckles, then the Carnival Night music will play instead of the results music. Doesn't happen in the case of the original or S&KC themes; would this have anything to do with the changing of the timing for the S1/2 results (that I *think* you mentioned earlier...?)?
    • Setting the monitors to Sonic 1/2 style sorta screws up the Marble Garden demo.
     
  5. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    That's probably exactly what's happening: super is being cancelled at the same time as (or shortly after) the results music is called, so the level music is overriding. It should be fairly simple to sort this out.

    Yeah, that's been bugging me for a long time, but I was never able to find an easy fix. Maybe there's something sneaky I can do to it though.

    Thanks for the reports!
     
  6. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Been meaning to ask if you could include an option to turn music off?
     
  7. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    You can actually do this already; just set the "Music Playout" option to "Disabled" in the Options menu. :)
     
  8. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    (sorry for the double post!)
    No random stuff to report this time, just a question: I was fiddling around in Debug mode and noticed that when the S1 or S2 shields are enabled, the object previews for the shields show the Flame Shield as a yellow shield, Thunder as a grey one, and Aqua as a blue one. Is this a planned cosmetic option or am I perhaps just reading to deeply into that...? :3

    EDIT: Oh and another question: have you ever thought about adding the EggRobo post-game scene from Sonic/Tails's "good" ending to the end of their "perfect" ending too?
     
  9. Liliam

    Liliam

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    I can sorta field this one, I think. The blue shield is Sonic/Knuckles' shield which changes color depending on the character. The yellow (orange) shield is a specific icon for Tails. Don't know why there would be a grey one, but then again, why not have something there filling the blank? It also more or less maps to the elemental colors correctly, too.
     
  10. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    It's kind of an oversight from when I added the shields to debug. I didn't make any special allowance for classic shields, so it continues to list the three subtypes that would be lightning, flame and bubble in normal mode. I use those subtypes differently with classic shields, though: all monitors in the level are replaced with what would have been bubble shields as Sonic or Knuckles, and what would have been flame shields as Tails, so that everyone gets their appropriate shield colour in the monitor.

    The grey one follows Knuckles' scheme from Sonic 2. I considered doing his shield that way early on, but favoured the character-colour approach instead, so it's unused, but it does coincidentally provide a nice symmetry with the elemental shields replaced by each kind.
     
  11. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

    Sonic CD's Sound Test Member
    This post is going to be a little long as it mostly glitches still present in the latest revision of Sonic 3 Complete so if you are uninterested, then ignore the rest of this post.
    I have posted the images as external links so as not to flood the post with images.

    OK, onto a few glitches I've come across while playing this recently. I have activated debug but unless specified, this has no effective on the glitch shown:

    http://I.imgur.com/SkixzoX.png
    There's a misplaced ring on the right of the screen that belongs to the left in the loop.

    http://I.imgur.com/IgjZfyS.png
    The floor chunk is moved over by one. You can tell by the pattern.

    http://I.imgur.com/41GbVu8.png
    Stupid instant kill object strikes again. These aren't really needed here as the crusher objects kill you anyway.

    http://I.imgur.com/vXQEG8w.png - http://I.imgur.com/UfUiCeF.png
    This one is a little weird. If you land on a spinner and spindash into the middle to trigger it, then fall into a mud pit, you don't die and can then zip anywhere under the ground.

    http://I.imgur.com/PEnSxJ1.png - http://I.imgur.com/RRTH7j2.png
    Shown in a few TASs but easy to pull off: land on those monitors via a balloon bounce and when you walk off, the gravity is messed up, allowing some crazy things to happen.

    http://I.imgur.com/ao8Dtw3.png - http://I.imgur.com/WvCr6zd.png
    Spindash at the laser while it's moving in and you can get to the other side of it.

    http://I.imgur.com/eYZUlvG.png
    Knuckles can, with a specific jump, make his way up the wall and then up to the top of the mountain in Icecap Zone 1.

    http://I.imgur.com/POcuvoY.png
    A few Sandopolis doors have no solid object in the wall to prevent zips and other oddities.

    http://I.imgur.com/QH1Vyja.png - http://I.imgur.com/dEGD37M.png
    The electric floor generators don't harm Sonic when he has an electric shield but the electric sparks do. This seems inconsistent. Monitor in shot through debug to easily acquire shield

    http://I.imgur.com/4FML5er.png
    These monitors are inaccessible due to the spikes on the left. Used debug to show monitors and coordinates.

    http://I.imgur.com/iHyeh9v.png
    All upside down doors trigger slightly early, allowing easy wall zips. This can occur on almost any upside down door in Death Egg Zone 2.

    I'm sorry if any of these are known or you aren't interested in fixing them but I've gone back and looked at the project and what it's trying to accomplish and bug fixing seems to be one of it's primary goals to making it a Complete Sonic 3.
     
  12. So THAT'S how it's done!
    Waaay back in the mid-90's when I first played Marble Garden I managed to trigger this by mistake; I thought at the time that it was some kind of secret shortcut passage that I'd fallen into. I spent a few years trying to just regularly sink to the bottom of every mud pit to find out where the shortcut was, but eventually I got bored of searching and gave up. It's nice to know how to trigger this to occur after all of these years!
     
  13. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Thanks for the reports. Without going into each individually, some are things I didn't know, and some are manifestations of known issues; some I will certainly try to patch up at some point, while others, I'd like to, but are relatively difficult within the bounds of the game as it is.

    I will say that I don't really consider Knuckles getting back to the start of Icecap to be a bug unless you're going FBZ-ICZ, in which case it will look garbled. I think I stopped it from being possible in that case but left it doable on the release route of CNZ-ICZ. The Death Egg sparks and inaccessible monitors are both odd but quite debatable as to whether they should be changed (similar class to the CNZ barrel in my opinion).

    In any case, the details and screenshots are much appreciated. :)
     
  14. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I'd argue that the sparks are a bug, personally... a simple omission... ie Sonic Team forgot to set them to be harmless against Electric Shields... NOT unlike how the Star Pointer (ICZ Orbinaut) can lose is orbs to both fire and ELECTRIC??? shields.

    On the other hand, I agree with you about the monitors... though if you decide not to make them reachable... why not get rid of them, and change the chunk? They take up unneeded object RAM... not that it's a huge issue.
     
  15. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Well, Object RAM's for putting objects in - it's not a problem at all unless I need more than is available at any time (I rarely add objects), performance is bad from running too many at a time (three monitors isn't anything to write home about there) or slots are getting leaked (I was alarmed to find that Knuckles' intro cutscene did this but brushed it under the carpet with the level restart - which again means it wasn't an issue in that case, it just became one when I made it seamless).

    The star pointer's surrounding bits are classed as projectiles, even before release; you can actually see the released ones get deflected a little in an appropriate direction as they disintegrate. This is why all shields destroy them. Since instashield also deflects projectiles in S3C, it destroys them too.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Yup. I made a little video of what happens with the water shield with those guys. It's really no different from any of the other shields.

     
  17. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Wow... I never knew that Water Shields could do that too... imagine that. Learn something new every day
     
  18. DustArma

    DustArma

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    I always figured that the electric sparks just had so much charge that not even the electric shield could withstand them.
     
  19. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Fair enough... would be fitting for a penultimate level... which, aesthetics aside... I felt Death Egg Zone was good at being such.
     
  20. Josh

    Josh

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    I was just playing, and found a bug you might wanna try to fix:

    [​IMG]

    Using Hyper Sonic's flash move here results in the switch from Knuckles' path breaking, causing you to get a bit stuck.