Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. A few things related to the monitors...

    - Monitors have a glitched sprite when playing as Tails alone (only tested Sonic 3 Part One on Angel Island Act 1, will test others later).
    - The 'issue' (well, oversight? Just plain annoyance?) where if you're playing Sonic 3 Part One as Sonic and you use the Super monitor, you transform into Hyper, not Super as it should be for S3 alone.
    - Also, when playing Sonic 3 Part One and you use a Super monitor as Tails, you transform into Super Tails. Super Tails wasn't possible in S3 originally, so perhaps the transformation should be disabled via the monitor or add a 'Super Tails' form (bump Super to Hyper)?
     
  2. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    A super monitor makes you go super/hyper, whether the actual game does as well or not. Tails cannot go Super unless you use a Super monitor via DEBUG MODE, so what's your problem?

    How does this affect the continuity or integrity of the original when Debug Mode is a glitched clusterfuck that is meant to break the game's rules to begin with?
     
  3. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Was this tested right at the beginning by any chance? If so, this is expected - the graphics won't reload properly until you're getting towards the end of the initial cliff; you shouldn't see any legit monitors up to this point.

    The latter is one of the reasons I don't do anything about the former. I won't be changing Tails' super forms in the proper game, but I may eventually make S3P1 mode give you Super Sonic instead of Hyper like the original. If it's about being faithful to Sonic 3, Tails should have a braindamaged half-Super form, so maybe there could be something like that for S3P1 debug only.

    But y'know, debug is super low priority.
     
  4. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

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    Have you ever considered the name "Sonic 3 Limited Edition"? I mean, it seems more commercial and viable than Sonic 3 complete, because it gives the sense of Sonic 3 being incomplete. Even though it is, Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were separate projects almost since the beginning.

    Anyway, best project from Sonic Retro since Megamix.
     
  5. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    While it probably would've made sense for a release back in the day, or a commercial release, Internet distribution means this is about the least limited edition imaginable! I think "Complete" makes more sense than ever now that we have all sorts of Jam features and PC music - I'm aiming for it to be a superset of all the Sonic 3/S&K-related releases (at least until Taxman and Stealth inevitably make a fancy modern one I can't imitate).

    I did briefly consider changing to "Sonic 3 Collection" at some point when the front menu was coming about, for parity with S&K Collection, but it felt like it missed the point somehow. And it can be quite confusing if you want to get an update and you find the name's changed.
     
  6. Did you ever consider doing a Capcom and calling it Hyper Sonic 3 (and Knuckles)?

    they once did a version of SF2 called Hyper Street Fighter 2 where you could be any SF2 version of every char and this is sorta similar.
     
  7. Strife

    Strife

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    In all seriousness though, I would refrain from a name change at this point since it tends to be confusing when that happens without a huge revamp to justify it (such as with Sonic 2 Heroes becoming Sonic Classic Heroes, which made sense since they extended the game beyond just Sonic 2).
     
  8. That's a good point. And yeah this version is as complete as can be (apart from Robotnik laughing and maybe the extra Sonic CD teetering sprites but hey)

    So I say keep it as well. Do you think this ROMhack could work on a real cartridge BTW?
     
  9. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    It does. I test it fairly often and I don't know of any issues, though it's a long while since I did a full playthrough with everybody.
     
  10. Whats the maximum size for Mega Drive/Genesis cartridges? 16MB? 32MB?
     
  11. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Officially, the maximum you should present is 4MB, or 32Mbit. Unofficially, there are a variety of ways to use a lot more, but it becomes difficult to be compatible with all emulators and flashcarts after a certain point, so I am considering 4MB to be the maximum for this project. Most flashcarts provide massively larger space of course, to allow for multiple games, but it's not like the MD is flat-mapping that all at once.
     
  12. steveswede

    steveswede

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    If the SVP chip is thrown into the mix, IIRC you can go up to 8MB, though I wonder if that's due to bank switching. I'm not tech savy so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
     
  13. JigenD

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    I know this is coming out of nowhere, but what is the feasibility of adding smooth sprite rotation "a la Pana the Hedgehog"? Sonic 3 Complete is almost...well...you know...complete...If I was some sort of programming god I would also add wide-screen support to the Fusion emulator. Sonic 3 Complete + Widescreen + smooth sprite rotation = SEX.
     
  14. DustArma

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    Because of hardware limitations smooth sprite rotation would have to be done either in software, making it awfully slow, or by creating a bunch of inbetween sprites, which would bloat the game's size. (I think that's what Pana der Hejhog does)

    As for widescreen, I don't know if that's even possible.
     
  15. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I suspect it's more to do with bank switching, there's an 8MB ROM (I think one of the Mortal Kombats?) that has no SVP capabilities.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

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    The two S&K LBZ songs are still very quiet. The special Super Sonic music is a bit quiet too, but it's not as bad.
     
  17. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Regarding widescreen I think it's impossible to do it on the Megadrive hardware and in emulator as there's no horizontal setting passed 320 pixels so to obtain something remotely widescreen world require losing pixels vertically and applying thick borders. There would also be difficulty finding hardware if you wanted to port Sonic that would offer widescreen and show the correct amount of screen squeezing. Sonic is shown in 320x224 so there's an additional 22 pixels squeezed in the 4:3 aspect. To have the correct squeezing when applied to the 16:9 aspect would require a horizontal pixel aspect of around 448x224. Due to it's very unusual resolution it would be very hard to find systems that would display the game correctly with the CPS3 being the closest candidate I can think of.
     
  18. JigenD

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    Then there must be some of those in-between sprites floating around somewhere...If not, those of us with drawing skills could make them...And concerning the game's size, it could just be ported to Mega CD, like Sonic Megamix eventually was, which would also be a plus for it would allow for CD quality audio, for those interested.

    And don't get me wrong, like most of you, I don't want to see this project degenerating into Sonic3&FurryFriends. I just want to see the most perfect (and feasible) version of sonic 3 possible on the web.
     
  19. Sonic 3 Complete HD anyone? :) That's the direction the conversation's beginning to march... don't get me wrong though, I'd LOVE to see it happen.

    I don't think a Mega CD port is a great idea tbh, in theory there are some benefits, but I think the drawbacks outweigh them.

    I've yet to see a decent MCD emulator, some of the PC ones like Kega & Gens do an OK job but I've yet to play one that doesn't have some sound errors & plays the wrong tracks etc. Whereas Mega Drive emuation is very nearly perfect on a wide range of systems. I also imagine the load times would be a pain, especially during act transitions.
     
  20. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    They could port S3C to Sonic & Knuckles Collection...