Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    To be rid of Pink Knuckles... and I got that.
    I'm happy :D

    BTW I have a couple of bugs I wanna report... only thing is, they occured on Gensoid so I'm not sure if they are worth reporting YET. Does anybody have suggestions regarding this? I wanna try to replicate them in Gens or ReGen or something before I go reporting something that maybe most others aren't finding.
     
  2. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    May as well mention it. I always try to reproduce anyway (not always successfully!) as I need to see if it what I change fixes it.
     
  3. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Cheers for letting me know, much appreciated.
     
  4. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    That's really the side-effect of it. Yeah some of my sugestions did made into the hack thanks to TIddles great work (Although I'm quite sure that most off them were already on Tiddles mind before then, anyway.) And because of that I still make them result of loving the game that Sega game and the appreciation of Tiddles work.

    Speaking of myself, I'm quite aware I didn't contribute for it, and I'm quite aware that anyone here, myself included, is not entlitled for making requests at all. In my perspective everyone seems to be aware of their place on all of this but no one did act like an ass over it and looking at the first relase and now to this one, It was worth it. And the day Tiddles and the other contributors say "stop" no one gonna make a fuss about it.

    In the end it's just a bunch on strings that everybody can ignore if they wish.
     
  5. Hez

    Hez

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    It's crazy how much I love this just because I can play with sonic 1 sprites... it's the little things :3
     
  6. Josh

    Josh

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    Holy CRAP, you've logiced something incredibly obvious that I'd never thought of before. That DOES explain why Ice Cap starts out looking like early morning.
     
  7. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    I think ICZ was darkened in the start to make it consistent with the Act 1 Boss, that starts dark and the sun rises the moment you defeat the Boss.
    Personally, I like as it is now, more dramatic. But hey not my choice.

    EDIT: And that kinda already happens anyway, the end of FBZ Act 2 is less darker than the beginning.
     
  8. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I did have FBZ getting lighter at one point, and there is still leftover code (of mine, not in the original) to do it, but it wasn't very popular with the troops - my palettes weren't too thrilling for one thing. I'm happier as it is now, as my current belief, based on the old save icon, is that there wasn't originally going to be any difference between the indoor and outdoor FBZ palettes at all, and that is, conceptually at least, what you get now with full prototype mode - we swap the order of the colours to fit with the existing art, but it's the same colours inside and out. If you go back to a 3C01 (2012) version, enable debug, then play FBZ in S3A mode, you can see the old brightening-up version of FBZ.

    I still had a pretty dark Icecap intro even then, since, as was pointed out, the end of act 1 is still dark. I don't know why the start of Icecap was so light before, compared to that, but I considered it an inconsistency worthy of fixing. It always seems like the prototype shots of it look darker than the final game, although that is more than likely just bad screenshot printing.
     
  9. Fred

    Fred

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    :) Yeah, that, but also Occam's razor. If there's no evidence of multiple palette stuff going on in either S3 or S&K, then which is more likely? Was it there once and then removed, or was it never there in the first place? Either way, the boss sequence does have a lighter palette, since it uses different art anyway, and those colors are then carried over to the beginning of ICZ1.

    Trust me, we banged heads over this for months, never being able to reach any consensus. It was only when Tiddles pointed out that the colors in the S3 save icon were different that our thoughts seemed to snap together -- the insides have a more bluey tone to them and then those colors are reused in the outside segments for a night sky. It makes sense in context, too -- no other S3 zone switches palettes repeatedly depending on which part of the stage you're on.
     
  10. muteKi

    muteKi

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    People have pointed out that the recreations of LBZ2 and the formerly-unused song from S&KC are too quiet, but I thought I'd also point out that I think the lead in ICZ2 could use a volume boost as well. Sounds great, just really quiet.
     
  11. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Exactly the same reason as me! And even the sonic 2 sprites.
    Well...
    Any sprites except the sonic 3 default ones... -shudder-
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Indeed. Sonic 2 sprites right here. It's nice being able to use the Sonic 1/2 monitor designs as well, and that with the classic themes makes it kind of like playing Sky Sanctuary in Generations.
     
  13. Glisp

    Glisp

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    None at the moment I'm afraid.
    Just a reminder in case you didn't see it Tiddles. ;)
     
  14. Hey folks

    Didn't see any other comments about this, so maybe I'm just being a bit anal.

    The new credits mix, any chance of a patch or an extra option to use it without having to use the PC level tracks?
    If it was a case of changing a bit of code (if that's even possible on a finished rom), I'd do it myself since its only for personal use. But, I haven't the first clue on rom hacking, had a look at some of the guides and nothing's really proving all that useful.

    Sorry to be a pain.

    All this aside, finally gave this a full playthrough and all my previous points still stand. Superb job all round as usual. :)
     
  15. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I might consider that if the alternative mix is particularly popular. Any other opinions on how well that works? 049 in the sound test if you haven't heard it. 033 is the original.

    My main problem with it is that it's just a liiiiiittle too short to sync well with the ending, whereas the overlong original manages to find its own rhythm that works out better.

    As for "Blue Knuckles", I am more likely to wipe the possibility from existence than make the option selectable. He's not a character slot, he's just the result of all the character ID checks being inconsistent and doing different things when they go out of range. In fact, if the old PAR codes aren't working at this point, I might have already done that - otherwise, PAR codes for the original game should still mostly work, just not GG codes.
     
  16. muteKi

    muteKi

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    I actually kinda like it. MGZ and LRZ have some of my more favorite tunes in the game, actually, and neither shows up in the default Sonic 3 mix, and a couple of the transitions are awkward. (Why didn't they keep Sky Sanctuary at the end? That worked a little better!)

    But what you should do is make that S&KC S3 invince music selectable, man. Even if you just have to code up a quick patch for it in the customizer. Because it's just so much better, y'know?
     
  17. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Perhaps replace one clip with a slightly longer track, I'd suggest MGZ since it's rhythm sounds a bit out of place anyway. Or you could use more elaborate transitions like they did for the first two games (eg. the slow change in beat between SBZ and SYZ in Sonic 1's melody). Alternatively use a larger amount of truncated clips so it will be both easier to edit in length and you'll use a wider range of the game's tracks throughout the melody.
     
  18. Strife

    Strife

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    I know we're going overboard on the suggestions, but I'm going to play devil's advocate and throw another one out there. You mentioned previously that this hack aims to remove Tails' status as a third wheel by, among other things, giving him his own introduction to Angel Island Zone. In another Sonic 3 hack, he is able to play through Doomsday Zone while riding the Tornado. Has this feature been considered for Sonic 3 Complete for when he collects all of the emeralds, like Sonic?
     
  19. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Oh no... please don't take away from ColinC10's uniqueness.
     
  20. dsrb

    dsrb

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    It seems to me that would mandate changing the gameplay too much. Assuming the plane led to a larger hitbox. If it didn't, that would seem really clumsy and pointless.

    Having said that, Tails in Doomsday probably shouldn't spin his tails. After all, there's no air up there for him to displace, right? But I guess he might just like it or [insert other barely plausible and equally barely necessary explanation]