Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I'm treading into "Make my dream come true" request territory... but an addition for Megamix control... on top of the current available controls would kick all sorts of ass... and would be a nice tribute to the dead **bricked by Team Megamix** ... I mean, currently on hold, hack. (I'm sorry guys I dunno what came over me.)
     
  2. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

    Is actually a guy. Tech Member
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    I've been playing this hack lately, and I love everything about it guys you've done a wonderful job. The level transition from FBZ to ICZ made me smile, as we finally got to see the "true" transition in action. The many different options makes the game even better as you can play it different ways, making the game feel more fresh and fun. However I can't seem to even finish AIZ while playing on Sonic 1 Mode, perhaps the level layouts could be changed so that if someone was to play it on Sonic 1 mode they could bypass certain spots without having the need to use the spin dash? I've always wanted to see how the game would be able to play out without being able to use the Spin dash, but from the looks of things you can't even finish the first level. :v: (I can't seem to get enough momentum to a. get out of the area with the first SS ring in Act 2 after returning to the level from the SS and b. if I skip over that area I still can't destroy the rocks that are in front of the tube right before Robotnik because there are spikes that prevent you from gaining enough momentum to roll through the rocks.) Also I'm going to try this out on hardware, I haven't seen anyone report if it works or not but I suppose I'll find out here in a bit. xD
     
  3. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic

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    Not quite, discussed this a couple of pages back.
     
  4. muteKi

    muteKi

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    It's not a sure-fire thing. I've run all the way to the left and he still doesn't show up sometimes.
     
  5. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Some of the suggestions for extra features/customization that people are leaving on here are getting ridiculous. I seconded the idea of FBZ being put between CNZ and ICZ, but when I really thought about it, it actually made perfect sense.

    A vast majority of the features and tweaks that Tiddles integrated into this are legitimate and necessary. I know that you all know that Sonic Team would have likely included them had they had the time and creativity to do so.

    Quit suggesting that bullshit concepts from other games or hacks should be added to this. It completely defeats the purpose of the hack. This is about the game being as complete as possible, as it was meant to be, not about your personal preferences.

    You're lucky Sonic CD's fucking figure-8 peel-out was even included, as unnecessary as it even is.
     
  6. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    For the record, I do not mind feature suggestions, though the volume of absurdism is a little high at times. :)
    As I mentioned before, I don't tend to comment on anything I'm not pretty darn sure I'm going to do already - wouldn't want to spoil the surprise, or conversely get anyone's hopes up.

    If I were to change anything there, it would be to have the default "recommended" layout mix take the "Normal" version of CNZ2 with that particular barrel missing. I've had that idea for a long while but have never really got around to playing/analysing the normal version enough to see if I'm happy with it.

    Ouch, that is nasty. Sorry that slipped through. It's fixed for the next update.
    (To be fair, though, I struggle to think of many cases where CD-spindashing off one of those will end well!)

    I'll mention this to ValleyBell. I thought I had a similar feeling at one point, but I guess I just stopped noticing it and forgot about it.

    You can do the same for the original CNZ-ICZ transition IIRC, but I've fixed it for both for the next update.

    Yeah, if you put the hardcore S1 patch on, unfortunately the game gets a little unwinnable in S1 mode. :)

    At the moment, using Easy mode should get you by, at the cost of missing half the acts. I might try doing something a bit cleverer with that patch in future - in theory, I could do something like have the object code for most breakable things self-destruct if you can't spindash, although just removing them straight is not always sensible - think of the LBZ water tubes, or the ICZ multi-brick columns you want to stand on top of - and sorting out all those cases ends up being another one of those things that ends up taking forever for a pretty edge-case thing.

    Should be OK on hardware, I play about with it relatively often, although it's been a little while since I've done a complete playthrough. Always nice to have an extra confirmation one way or another, anyway. :)
     
  7. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Well could you please give me an idea on your stance on doing a version of Angel Island not on fire? I believe you won't do it as I see it extreme (though not impossible in my mind as an easy way would be to create a new zone slot so it doesn't touch the original) but I do check here to see if you have given an answer on it because I do hope that you might say you will look into it at some point. Really I'm just wanting to know if the answer is a definite no so I can move on from it.
     
  8. Yarharhar

    Yarharhar

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    I am actually attempting to do a not-on-fire AIZ hack now after looking over the idea and not having enough coding in my life.
    This gets dangerously into 'belongs in another thread' category, but I don't plan on having a big discussion thread or anything about it.

    On my checklist:
    1. Remove the heat lines from AIZ 2 (I have found the code in question to do that)
    2. Remove the burning plants from the map
    3. Fix the 'burning' pulley line
    4. Graphical changes
    a. Bring back the 'happy' palette of AIZ1 (dealing with the palette animation is proving confusing)
    b. Adjust the tiles - the flora in act 2 is slightly different to use less colors due to the fire lighting. I'll want to bring back the color depth of act 1
    c. Adjust the backgrounds to remove the 'firey' elements while still utilizing the 'deep in jungle' elements. This is mostly color changes


    A more 'elegant' hack I considered rather than just modifying act 2 would be to extend act 1's layout to contain an 'unburnt' version of act2. If you race through the first part of act 1 fast enough (say, under 30 seconds or something?) you beat the firebot there and continue on without the burning cutscene. Of course, then you have to deal with porting all the act 2 craziness to act 1, like the FBZ bombing run, cutscenes, etc
     
  9. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic

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    Really? It's always activated for me, maybe I've never done it quick enough... or too quick =P
     
  10. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    Just popping in to say that I really love the S&KC version of Launch Base 2 in here. It sounds wonderful. The other PC tracks do too but I'm super in love with Launch Base 2. Great work ValleyBell, you did an awesome job adapting them to the Genesis.
     
  11. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I feel like I've been inexorably stuck too, but it might be that with enough jimmying around you can still fix things. The spin dash screen offset breaks everything else, maybe you can use that to help fix this? Would be nice if it did something good for once!

    It is a nice idea, and something I would love to see, but probably not a Sonic 3 Complete thing, honestly. But there you go, someone is picking up the baton for you anyway, so it wasn't in vain. :)
    I have this vague memory of having seen a screenshot of someone else trying to do the same, but it would have to have been many years ago, and if it ever was finished, I never saw it or played it.
     
  12. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Oops:

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Oops 2 (Again a Sonic 2 styled sprites glitch. Difficulty screen still has S3 Tails!)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Oops indeed. The former is now fixed for the next update; the latter, I will get sorted out.
     
  14. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    I do not like all of the talk going on about trying to "fix" the Carnival Night barrel. It is too iconic to tamper with, if you ask me. :P
     
  15. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Agreed.

    Honestly, considering how much they've already added to this hack that takes it far beyond its original scope as a restoration/amalgamation of the original games, people ought to at least wait a while before suggesting even more outlandish things. Current reigning champion: the request for Megamix-style controls

    Yarharhar has completely the right idea. If you want something done, do it yourself. Don't just try to dump the workload on someone else. When it has almost no relevance to their goals, it's even worse.

    Some of these features might be nice in their own right, like Yarharhar's, so if more people were to take responsibility for their own ideas, we'd all benefit. You'd bring your idea into reality, everyone else would get something new to try, and Tiddles and co. would get left to do things that they actually signed up for.
     
  16. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Greed is inevitable when faced with a very flexible hack. At the end of the day, though, they're just shots in the dark made completely on the off chance they MIGHT get considered. I don't think anyone's going to throw an uproar if any of this stuff doesn't get included, and they're not entitled to either, and in the end I think everyone will be perfectly satisfied with the enormous content that's already there, but hey, it doesn't hurt asking. :P

    People ask about extras for almost every project, mines, yours and the guy to the left of you. On rare occasions they get their request but usually they get a polite no and no biggie. They just wanted to check on the off chance and got an answer. When people don't relent or go from innocent suggestions to outright insisting stuff SHOULD be there is where problems begin.

    Granted I might only sleazily justifying that on account that many of these requests have led to fun extras so far. If Tiddles doesn't want us to turn into greedy bloodsuckers he shouldn't deliver so wonderfully.
     
  17. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

    Have you ever had the idea to replace S3K drums with S1 drum samples?

    You could take the missing ones from Roland 626, which Masato Nakamura used on his demos (S1 Snare is from that synth also!).

    Thanks :D
     
  18. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    It was a bit outlandish, I do admit... and probably unfeasible... the amount of new sprites to draw, extra coding and all that is rather unnecessary considering all that is done. I just heard ""Megamix"" and got a little carried away...

    Point taken, I can just look into putting it into my REV C hack instead. My apologies guys.

    PS: TBH the continuation of this thread SHOULD consist more of bugfixes, and less of design changes.
     
  19. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Actually, considering that post about the barrel, you might be off the hook :v: But, to be fair, I have to say that it would be interesting to see that control scheme in S3&K. I just don't think it's within the remit of this project to include it. If you or something else does do it, it'll be interesting to try out!

    Definitely. That was what I meant. At least in the near future. Let's take a while to appreciate the tonne of new stuff in this version and help to improve what's already there! Once the crew get through all of the pending bugfixes and whatnot, they have plenty of suggestions to think about without needing any more in the near future. We got pink Knuckles; what more do y'all want? :P
     
  20. muteKi

    muteKi

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    OK, so, gonna go ahead and make a crazy suggestion, but let me justify it for a second.

    When FBZ is moved to the place between CNZ and ICZ, the background is darkened to be consistent with the change in daytime over the course of the previous levels. But the same thing is true of ICZ in most of the later builds.

    So I got me to figuring -- FBZ (and CNZ too kinda) are probably the two levels that change LEAST between acts visually (not even much of a background change in either), so what if during FBZ the second act got lighter, leading into a lighter ICZ?

    This is actually kinda a difficult request to make because damn if I don't love the new darker background at the start of ICZ, but I'll sacrifice the first 20 seconds of that act for visual differentiation between the two parts of FBZ.