Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Totally a feature.

    I have a rough idea why that might be happening; will look into it and fix it in a soonish update. In the mean time, go the right bloody way. :)
     
  2. Shadic

    Shadic

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    Kinda a weird, super-minor glitch, but when I beat Angel Island Act 2, I hit the ceiling capsule by using Sonic + Tails to fly up there and bonk it.

    I rather quickly was pushed to the left of the screen, and only managed to not die by holding right when jumping free.
     
  3. Just gave this a quick look to check out the new features. Hats off to everyone involved once again.

    Great to have Super Sonic's sprites matching for a change.

    Tails assist options, brilliant. Should have been this way to begin with.

    The credits theme = AWESOME!!! The original S3C version always sounded so musically broken and unfinished to me, great to have it all working as it should.

    Working tonight so will have a full playthrough tomorrow at some point and report back.

    If Sega do end up releasing a Taxman & co remake of S3K remake, they'd be fools not to have you guys on board.

    Love it! :)
     
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    If you're looking to fix legacy physics problems - the.. erm... "circles" you can run around the edges of in Carnival Night Zone - once you reach a certain speed you'll be flung off for whatever reason. It's exactly the same with Sonic 1's Scrap Brain Zone Act 2 - I've seen fangames "fix" the problem by letting Sonic and co. run around them indefinitely - maybe it's worth considering here?

    Also the Sonic CD 2011 Tails assist mechanics make the Marble Garden Zone Act 2 boss harder than it needs to be (since Sonic can't jump out of Tails' grasp). Not sure if it's intentional.
     
  5. Josh

    Josh

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    According to the wiki, you can get out of being carried by holding down while you jump. Haven't tried it myself, but see if that works.
     
  6. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I assume you're referring to the sound test 049 version, which is actually only called upon if you swapped in some of the S&K collection zone music; the default option is still to play the love-it-or-loathe-it S3C 0517 version.

    Yep, that will do it. I think it's more awkward than the S3-style controls, all told, but I'm just mimicing that scheme for those who want it. I also added a feature to all versions of Tails assist: if you're in midair, and hold down, you can prevent Tails from catching you, which is nice sometimes if you don't want him to mess you up bouncing on a boss for instance.
     
  7. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    No issues to report, just a minor question.

    I was scrolling through the Sound Test and noticed that, at sound 055, there's a slightly more amped-up version of the Sonic 3 invincibility theme (it sounds somewhat similar to the Sonic & Knuckles Collection "General MIDI" version). I've tested several different situations but it doesn't seem to play in actual gameplay. I tried to set pretty much every music option that had an "S&K Collection" option to that, but it still doesn't seem to play whenever I get invincibility/turn Super (or Hyper) (with the Super option set to play invincibility music). So, what is it used for, exactly? Just curious. :)

    I've been having major fun with this by the way; I did a quick runthrough of the S3 portion (and Mushroom Valley, just to see how the transition would be to Sandopolis :P) last night! Totally digging the new control options, and having the unused PC track as an optional music track for Super forms was a very nice touch. The new zone transitions are oh-so awesome too. :) And all the bugfixes!!! AND the PC tracks! Ahh you know what just--

     
  8. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    ValleyBell came up with it as a bonus extra, but I'd already designed the menus and switching structure and I had nowhere to make it accessible. I did have somewhere I was going to sneak it in, but I just didn't get around to it. Next time perhaps. For now it is just a sound test bonus. :)

    There's some other unused stuff in there too - most obviously classic drowning and classic emerald, but they just don't really work very well as it stands, and I never built anything to pick them anyway. They are essentially a relic of stuff I planned to do but didn't. There are a few other bits in there that do, hopefully, still represent future options.
     
  9. Glisp

    Glisp

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    None at the moment I'm afraid.
    I can confirm this bug. I've had it happen before while playing S3K on Mega Collection.
     
  10. Yup that one, was trying out the new music options and was rather delighted to hear it after finishing Doomsday. In my opinion it should be selectable without the S&KC options on. Its a good way to represent both games in the credits and fixes the totally jarring and pace breaking Carnival Night & Launch Base sections from the 0517 version as well as the slight overrun with the victory pose.

    Just a humble suggestion. Cheers dude! :)
     
  11. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    Ahh OK. Thanks for clearing that up :)
    On a completely different note, I just found a bug; I set the zone order back to "As Released" and the transition from Mushroom Valley to Flying Battery is...well:
    [​IMG]
    only happened when playing as Sonic (with/without Tails).

    EDIT: Oh right, had Sonic 2 sprites enabled too, but I really don't think that would have anything to do with this(...?) Again, the transition works fine for Tails alone and Knuckles.
    EDIT 2: I'd also like to add that this transition still technically works (it's not gamebreaking; Sonic will still continue to Flying Battery following this), but it's just jarring for obvious reasons... :v:
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Oh, one minor really stupid thing that's always bugged the crap out of me. When the game takes control of Tails in Hidden Palace after the floor breaks, Tails is always in front of Sonic for the remainder since it's one of the few times the game wants you to go to the left. Any way you could fix that for that cutscene?
     
  13. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    Just tried it with both S3 and S2 sprites and it's working OK for me. Possibly only happens in certain circumstances... if you can manage to grab a savestate that definitely leads to it happening, please send it to me, along with your ROM and SRAM.

    Edit: any debug going on? If you use debug to regain control so Sonic doesn't jump at the end, this will happen. Not saying that's necessarily the only way, but it is one.

    Theoretically, yes, probably, although it'd be a lot of meddling within Tails' main AI for not very much payoff, and I'd probably rather spend that time elsewhere honestly. Also, it's... the plot, erm, Tails really takes a shine to Knuckles and wants to follow him, so. Yeah.
     
  14. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    No, but ahhhhh I think I've found the issue...I also had the SCD 2011 controls enabled at the time, and my guess is that having the game set to any of the control options that enable Sonic to do the Peel-Out will cause him not to jump in this scene. I tried with the S3 controls and everything worked fine.
     
  15. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    This new version's just made my day, especially the S&K Collection music ports and the new transitions to compliment the prototype level order (DOOR BOARDIN'). Some problems and suggestions though:
    • The bug I brought up concerning the floating icicle spikes in Knuckles' ICZ1 route hasn't been fixed.
    • Perhaps you could put the "S3 Credits in HPZ" music option from the customiser into the Zone Music options menu (unless you have no room in the SRAM for it).
    • If Sonic's shading style changes when using S1/S2 sprites, how about having Tails' shading style change too? The S1/S2 sprites would look more natural that way IMO.
    There's also something I was going to bring up about the previous version a couple of months ago, but I forgot to, so here it is. While I was poking about in the VDP on the game select with Gens/GS I found unused menu graphics for a Time Attack mode and a Boss Rush mode, and they're still there in this new version. What's the deal with them?

    [​IMG]

    And Somecallmejohnny's going to be so stoked when he finds out that you credited his LP channel in this hack. =P
     
  16. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Ooh, nice catch. He's going into peelout, isn't he. Should be an easy fix. Kinda glad I held back on the Knuckles CNZ top route fix now, which is ready for release. Maybe I'll just wait and see what else you all come up with for a bit!

    I was wondering if that would ever come up, heh.

    They're things I've had on my mind as possible future features for a very long time, so I built slots for them when I first put the game menu together in summer 2011. I accidentally let them appear for one frame on startup, and you can actually see them in place if you can hammer Start fast enough when booting into the game menu, so it fades to black as soon as it starts fading from white. I hate to disappoint, but there is vanishingly close to zero implementation done on them at this point; you could probably build a GG code to make them show up and be selectable on the menu, but you'd just get a "nope" sound effect if you tried to enter them. I do not guarantee that they ever will exist either - the slots may remain empty or I may splat something else over the top in future if the whim takes. But in theory they are both things I still want to do.

    By the way, less interestingly, that crappy looking "v" after the numbers was meant to be for a version marker, before I put it in the options menu.

    Was a very nice LP, and raised quite a bit of awareness of S3C I think, so it seemed worth calling out. Also because there needs to be a Sonic 3CD Complete Complete.
     
  17. jackelbeaver

    jackelbeaver

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    Hi, I've been following this mod for a bit and I'm liking the inclusion of pc songs (my first exposure to the game way back) but I'm curious about two things:
    1st: Is there a way to get knuckles to have yellow socks in Sonic's story that I'm not seeing? I kind of liked the color inconsistency between sonic's campaign and knuckles' in a weird way.
    2nd: It would be interesting to have the character setting tweaks not be theme specific, but allow for manual tweaking (So if I want I could have all speed caps, sonic cd spindash, and allow my character to use their double jump if I wanted)
    3rd: I really enjoy the Flying Battery Zone move and the night pallet. It fixes alot of the pacing issues of the lockon and gives Launch Base a proper "ramp up" while leaving the second half of the game a little more consistent with how different the bosses and stages felt in mhz, soz, lrz, and so on. (FBZ always felt like a weird tonal shift out of nowhere) I am kind of curious though if it'd be possible to toggle in the original sonic 3 snowboard EVEN if you're using the flying battery level swap option. I know it'd technically be inconsistent but I think the snowboard looks cooler than the door frame, but I also want to be able to enjoy the level swap as well as the original snowboard intro.

    Also, the main reason I'm posting is that I'd like to know if there's a write-up anywhere of how the music settings work? What do the different sets do? (by game/zone/character/recommended?) Thanks and keep up the great work!
     
  18. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Good news, everyone: I've fixed the MHZ2 + original order + peelout problem in source. I'll probably put a new build out tomorrow with that and the Knuckles in the wrong bit of CNZ2 fix. Feed me bugs in the mean time! I'm not looking at original S3&K bugs for short-term fixes but if you find anything badly wrong specific to S3C, I'll try to fix it ASAP. (S3&K bugs will continue to be beaten on in the full course of development, as usual.)


    (For sufficiently high values of two ;))

    No, there is no way to make them inconsistent again; you can bring back pink across the board in the customiser, but there are no sock patches. I polled for interest in a yellow sock patch when I first made those changes, and I think you are now the second person to express interest, so it is not a huge priority I'm afraid! If I did one, it would give 1P Knuckles the same yellow socks.

    There's such an array of options now, and such inconsistency in what applies to which game with the new releases, that this might begin to make more sense, and I'll consider reworking all that in the future. That's a significant task so it won't be for a while if it happens.

    Unlikely I'll change that I'm afraid - I see where you're coming from but I don't want to make the option setup too complicated or piecemeal just to deal with unusual edge cases. That was kind of the spirit behind the game control options being bundled up as they are, too; it's just that that is starting to end up more complicated in practice.

    That menu is messy (getting to be another big candidate for reorganisation of how it all works) and it's hard to explain what the things are for in a few characters. I'll try to give a brief rundown.

    Aside from all the individual track settings, you have those two big options Theme Control and Event Control. The default of "Always menu choices" essentially does nothing: whatever subgame or zone or character you are playing, you get the tracks and options selected elsewhere around the menus. Setting to anything else causes certain overrides to come into effect for certain scenarios. "By game" means that if you play S3 (Part One), you get the original S3 music, and if you play S&K, you get the original S&K music. "By zone" is similar but it also affects Complete mode: you'll get the S3 music until you finish Launch Base, at which point it switches over. "By character" means Sonic and Tails get the Sonic 3 tunes and Knuckles gets the S&K versions.

    What's the difference between Theme Control and Event Control? Theme is basically for anything based on the game's theme tune - invincibility, game complete, extra lives. Event covers things like bosses and Knuckles showing up. In this way you can keep consistent Knuckles/miniboss themes but swap around the main title themes if you wanted to, or vice versa.

    Hope that clarifies it.
     
  19. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    I have been playing this hack for the last day and loving every second of it. I can't thank you enough for allowing the control lock to be disabled, that makes everything better. Two things I'd like to ask for though:

    An option for the music to not be affected at all when turning Super/Hyper. Personally I never want the level music to change. It's the one reason I tend to avoid powerups and forms (aside from making the game too easy but they're also very fun).

    And, this, to reiterate an earlier post:

     
  20. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    I've just noticed that the Game Over music setting is broken, as setting it to use the classic theme will still play the S3&K theme.