Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Applause to Sid for finding all that. Wow.

    I'd like to reiterate my suggestion for removing the control lock when jumping out of a spinroll, ala Sonic CD.
    I've also got a couple more things to point out.

    I wish the bubble shield would work on objects such as these:
    [​IMG]
    Sonic just lands normally on these and the CNZ barrels.

    Also, one would think the lightning shield should protect from these electric bolts in DEZ:
    [​IMG]

    I'm also annoyed that certain situations kill Sonic's double jump move before you use it, such as breaking the cube rocks in Sandopolis, or bouncing off bumpers or balloons in CNZ. I'd like to see situations like that rectified.
     
  2. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Thanks for posting all these, chaps. I'll definitely look at them, though depending on how things work out, it might not be before the next major release.

    I do already plan to have a control option in the next release that will allow unlocked roll jumps.
     
  3. THANK YOU For adding complete sprite sets from S1 & S2 Sonic!!

    I always considered Sonic's sprites in the third game to be a little derpy... Why is he so happy about all thats going on around him?

    In the first two games he always had this "I Got This!!" Look to his eyes which really suited the mood. ^^
     
  4. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    No problem! If they seem a bit lacking, don't worry about that. I've since overhauled them for the next update.

    I think the spriters were aiming for something closer to the official Japanese artwork when making S3 Sonic. He looked a tad bit chubbier and more genuinely happy in that art than he did in the US artwork.

    Nice finds! I never seemed to be put off by that pixel shift that Knuckles exhibits in those pics, but I guess it's an imperfection nonetheless.

    Don't worry about being picky. All the things you've posted are completely legitimate things to look towards fixing, regardless of how small they are. It's actually not that different from what my first post was like!

    I'm not 100% sure if those Sonic sprite issues have been fixed. I'll take a look back at them soon to see if they are, but they'll be good for next release. As for the FBZ1 mini-boss, that's actually something I never noticed before. You'd think playing the level countless times would make me notice something like that!
    I wouldn't be surprised if these things here were all intentional. To me the object interactions with jumping abilities feel more...right. I don't know why, but they just do. It might have to do with the fact that those objects make you consider your actions before you jump right in and use them. I don't think changing jumping behavior with those objects can hurt much, though.

    As for the second pic, making contact with those electric generator things without a lightning shield or invincibility will make you take damage. The lightning shield protects you from that, but I don't find it wrong that something more threatening damaging you might not be out of bounds. Think of this as the lightning bolts overloading the shield with electric charge, causing you to lose your shield. Plus, come on. It's the last regular zone in the game! There's got to be some extra challenge with things in it.
     
  5. MastaSys

    MastaSys

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    I know that I might asking for much, but do you guys have a estimate of the possible date of when the next update comes?
    I might wait for it for my S3&K fix.
     
  6. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I don't really know yet, sorry. I have some things left to build, and I'm waiting for a few bits and pieces too, and it's going to need quite a bit of testing, which I'm not sure how I'm going to achieve now.

    But the good news is that a lot more is done than isn't - it's probably about 80-85% ready I'd say. All the zone order work that I have planned for this release is done, though there is more I'd like to do beyond that, which may or may not jump forward into this release depending on how things work out.

    It won't be this month, but it shouldn't be another six months - that's as much as I can offer right now.
     
  7. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Really? I've always perceived Sonic from S3 as having a downward mouth* indicating almost grim determination, but the Sonics from the first two games as looking completely blank and expressionless. Almost the opposite of how you see it, IOW.

    * Let's face it: we only get two darker flesh-coloured pixels arranged diagonally downwards, so it's really all left to intepretation. I guess my perception of Sonic in 3 as being srs bsns might have been fuelled by the rest of his stance, in some way that I can't fathom right now. Not that I ever would've imagined him being as moody as this :S
     
  8. Adamis

    Adamis

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    A friend of mine (who isn't on this forum) would like to know if you have plans to add a playable Amy (from the S3&Amy hack). Thanks :)
     
  9. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Firstly, no, as that was definitely not intended for the 'real' complete version of Sonic 3. Tiddles has added some minor new things, but characters are in another realm, and IIRC that's already been ruled out.

    Secondly, that's a slippery slope. If Amy, then why not [everyone else's pet favourite]? Hacks allowing that are numerous (mostly by E-122-Psi), so I don't see the need to ask other authors to pile new characters into their clearly non-character-based hacks.
     
  10. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Yeah, pretty much that, sorry. There are already two hacks adding Amy to Sonic 3K, one of which contains large parts of the oldest versions of Sonic 3 Complete (and is in fact mislabelled as Sonic 3 Complete from time to time due to the ROM header); hopefully those should give you enough of an Amy fix. :)
     
  11. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    It would be great if after this is done it could be a base for future hacks, since in it's nature it is the most complete Sonic 3. It's fixes are a great addition and I'd love to see them in other hacks.

    Essentially will this hack become the ReadySonic of hacks? However, vanilla Sonic 3 in it's complete form is great.
     
  12. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I've been at work on something sort of similar recently (though I've kinda stepped away from it for a bit). Tiddles himself has been really helpful with this as well.

    I don't think this should be the ReadySonic 3, simply because it offers TOO much. As I had mentioned in the Sonic 3 Hacking thread, I think that such an idea would really be detrimental tot he community. Instead of having every extra addition included in a ReadySonic3, it should only include the bugfixes, AND a limited range of extra features, to START the user off with. Otherwise how would anyone learn?

    FIRST thing that needs to happen, is for the base S3 disassembly to be properly labeled. That's something that I started working on recently, with Tiddles' assistance. After I finish and release my current Triad related project (standalone image converter) I plan on getting back to this and releasing a sample ASM. It will include a small bug-fix or two as well.
     
  13. Fred

    Fred

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    Ahahahaha no.

    Sorry if I come out sounding like a dick, but the amount of original content I put towards this hack was... well, towards this hack. I certainly don't want any newbie who thinks Megamix is cool to take all the content I've put love and effort into, slap some custom sprites of Shadic the Rotorhog, add homing attack and parade it around YouTube. I'm pretty sure Tiddles feels the same way, though he probably wouldn't word it exactly the way I just did.
     
  14. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I think a ReadySonic 3 is a good idea, but I'll echo the sentiments of KingofHarts and Neo that it shouldn't be exactly this. Quite apart from the issue of whose hard work ends up being reused all over the shop, some aspects of modern Sonic 3 Complete actually make it more hostile towards developing custom content than the original, such as having to deal with 3-4 different object layouts per act, and all the customisation switches and different game contexts. I more or less break down in tears every time I need to edit an object layout now. :)

    As I've discussed with him, I'm happy to help KingofHarts where I'm able and when I have time. I'd considered doing something similar myself, but I never get around to it because I'm still working on this! Even if I had done so, I would have started with a clean slate and started adding my fixes onto it and cleaning them up for legibility and practicality - there's still a lot of unpleasant code written for the old disassembly in Sonic 3 Complete, and a bunch of stuff that's probably not done in a very optimal way, since most of the things I did at the very beginning while I still didn't really understand 68K ASM or the game code are still in there somewhere.

    I think, in my ideal world, I'd include a little more than just bugfixes (e.g. I think things like getting flamewing's sound driver plumbed in and enabling access to the Sonic 3 music variants would be nice, as would the changes I've made to how the character sprites are processed to get rid of the "extra" art block for Sonic and Tails, and probably some other stuff that doesn't immediately spring to mind) but I'll leave that up to the guy doing the work. :)

    EDIT: Oh, and at least the transformation button setup as a build flag - or some variant thereof - because as far as I'm concerned, the game is just broken without it. Not being able to fly or glide without transforming and ruining the music once you have the emeralds is such a terrible misfeature.
     
  15. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    Got another suggestion I'd really like to see. I'd be surprised if this hasn't been suggested before though.


    When playing as Super/Hyper Sonic in Hydrocity, and running across the water:
    [​IMG]

    Feature the water effect from the intro when he's running across the water:
    [​IMG]

    When I was very young and first accomplished getting Super Sonic in S3K, I expected to see that effect in Hydrocity Zone. My hopes were dashed when I actually tried it.
     
  16. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    That makes sense. No I was just curious exactly what might be contributed to general builds so future hacks don't include things like double jump Super Sonic or glitch fixes or things like that.
     
  17. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

    Opa-Opa takes flight! Wiki Sysop
    I come bringing some bugs and a few suggestions (unless you are already ahead of me on some of them):

    1. Instead of having the screen pull up after the CNZ1 boss is destroyed and the descending blocks have completely passed through the floor, how about having the lower boundary already set at the ground while the blocks are still falling, a little like this for example?

    [​IMG]

    2. When taking Sonic's path in CNZ2 as Knuckles, sometimes he will be crushed by some invisible force when approaching towards the ground and the base of a moving barrel in the area where the water level would stop dropping in Sonic's version of the act:

    [​IMG]

    3. Maybe you should put some sort of object to block Knuckles from being able to climb the tube leading up to Sonic's boss at the end of CNZ2 via Sonic's route to prevent transition inconsistencies. Either that or have Knuckles enter the next zone in a more consistent way or something.

    [​IMG]

    4. The floating icicles that you have to glide past in Knuckles' route in ICZ1 can hurt you even when you're in the flashing 'mercy invincibility' state, similar to Sonic 1's infamous spike bug. This still needs a fix.

    5. In a similar fashion to fixing Doomsday Zone for Tails and Knuckles in debug mode you could also fix Knuckles' version of Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails in debug mode. For example, fixing Tails following Sonic so that he spawns from the teleporter with Sonic rather than falling from the sky, putting him in front of Angel Island, and preventing his AI and player controls from locking up after the first half of the Mecha Sonic fight. And also after defeating Super Mecha Sonic make the game reset to the SEGA screen instead of going to a messed up Knuckles ending.

    6. Perhaps you should change Knuckles' victory animation in Blue Sphere to match the one in the main game modes. Upon examining it, he seems to be using the animation routine for Sonic's victory pose which is making him pause then swing his fists back and forth constantly.

    7. I personally think the patch on Knuckles' chest should be recoloured to match the colours of his gloves rather than his muzzle. It just seems kind of odd to me.

    8. This one isn't really a bug report or a suggestion, just an inquiry. Sound #F6 in the sound test seems to be a duplicate of the Data Select theme that's tucked away among the S&K tracks. What's the difference between this one and the one in sound #2F?
     
  18. RedQuartz

    RedQuartz

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    In both vanilla Sonic 3 (and prototypes 0408 and 0517), the Data Select music (Sound 2F) has a weird glitch going on with one of its chimes. If you stay around the data select screen for exactly 47 minutes, the said chime increases in volume. However, Sonic 3K (and probably Sonic and Knuckles) stops this bug by replacing Sound 2F with F6, which won't have a chime increase in volume.

    EDIT: There are a few things I would like to point out.

    First, there is a bug in LBZ's metal tubes. If Sonic gains speed on them, but rolls to a complete stop (while he's still on them), he will be stuck in his standing and waiting animation.

    [​IMG]

    Secondly, in LRZ 1, there are three unused ring rooms. Two of them are right next to the first two spindash elevators.

    Finally, here's something that I've been wondering since I found and beat the hack; when you work on the game, do you ever think about adding Michael Jackson's name to the credits?
     
  19. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    OK, here we are then. For the most part I'll let the changelog do the talking, but the tl;dr version is this: Flying Battery's come home, there's PC music, there's Sonic 1/2 music, there are full Super Sonic sprites for Sonic 3 style, the classic sprites have all their blues restored, S1 2013-style Tails assist is included, there are separate S1/S2/SCD93/2011 control options, and a whole bunch of tweaks and bugfixes as usual.

    Download it from the Sonic 3 Complete page as usual, or customise it.

    Hope you like it. While it should be pretty stable as usual, there's more new stuff under the bonnet than usual too, so look out for any nastiness and let me know - with so many patches and options, I can't test every combination as thoroughly as I'd like, so your feedback is appreciated.

    Massive thanks to Neo and That One Jig again for some amazing sprite and palette work, to flamewing for many of the full Super Sonic sprites and for busting the sound driver open, to ValleyBell for producing what I think are some fantastic renditions of the PC tracks (somehow I don't even hate PC Icecap any more!), to all you persistent bugfix tutorial guys (one day we'll get the stuff I've done here back out into the public domain, for sure, I just wish I weren't lazy about it and put in the documentation effort you do) and to everyone else on the credits list.

    Bugfixes over previous S3C versions
    • The extra floor in Icecap Act 2 in Easy/Normal mode is now drawn using chunks rather than objects, so it doesn't flicker.
    • Tweaked air monitor collision so you're less likely to get snagged on edges.
    New Features and Options
    • Flying Battery can now be played between Carnival Night and Icecap if enabled in the menu.
    • MD arrangements of the S&K Collection music are available to use from the menu. These were arranged and implemented by ValleyBell.
    • Classic versions of the main Sonic themes are included as menu options.
    • Super Sonic now has a full set of distinct sprites (for the default S3 look only). Some of these are based on flamewing's SCH sprites with tweaks by That One Jig; others have been drawn by Neo. A patch is available to revert to the classic super graphics. The primary character sprites have also been further tweaked.
    • Player 1 in a Sonic+Tails game can now put Tails into flight mode and direct him when being carried. This is activated as in Sonic 1 2013 (up+jump in midair). When Tails is carrying Sonic, use up/down/left/right to direct Tails, as in the Marble Garden boss; alternatively, you can set the controls in this state to work as in Sonic 1 2013 through the options menu. The Tails assist feature is enabled by default but can be turned off by changing the "Tails Assist" option in the options menu. When this mode is active, the fire shield dash will not activate while the up button is being held.
    • Tails now has his own continue screen. (Graphics by Neo.)
    • The Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 sprite options have been significantly improved and Sonic now uses the full set of four blues. The full Sonic 2 Super palette cycle has also been implemented. As a consequence, the separate options for retro palettes have been removed - the palettes are part of the art patches now. The oldschool Tails sprites have had some additional updates inspired by the Sonic CD 2011 and Sonic 1 2013 versions.
    • Hyper Sonic, Super Tails and Super/Hyper Knuckles now have distinct underwater palettes.
    • Super/Hyper characters detransform if they are killed.
    • The Sonic 2-style moves and abilities patch option has been moved to the in-game menu and expanded: it is now possible to play with Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD 1993 or Sonic CD 2011 style controls, with or without the appropriate speed caps. A further "max control" option has been added which gives you the Sonic CD 2011 peelout and unlocked roll jump on top of the normal Sonic 3 move set. (Note that Sonic 1 controls still include spindash to ensure the game can be completed; this can be disabled with a patch option for the brave, although this renders the game unwinnable in all but easy mode.)
    • Two features have been introduced from Hayate's "Casual Mode" hacks: casual mode itself, in which you have infinite lives and do not lose shields or rings when hit, making you almost invincible, and the option to avoid restarting level music on death if the same track would play anyway.
    • Sonic 3 Complete credits roll added to the Options menu.
    Sonic 3-ification
    • A new palette is available for Flying Battery, which is used by preference if you set the zone order so that the zone appears during Sonic 3. This is based on the palette from the unused Sonic 3 save icon for Flying Battery.
    • The save screen for Complete mode no longer shows counts of lives and continues (though these are still saved and loaded); its format has been made more compact, like the original Sonic 3 save screen. There is a patch to revert to the cramped S3&K display, but this format will always be used with casual mode, as lives and continues are not relevant in that mode.
    Bugfixes over S3&K
    • Angel Island now uses a sensible HUD palette in all areas.
    • Knuckles' special moves now respect underwater physics.
    • In rare cases, some giant rings in Mushroom Hill would not appear when continuing a save imported from Sonic 3. This has been fixed.
    • It is no longer possible to confuse the camera by ducking and jumping in a wrapped level, thereby moving through objects (thanks to flamewing and redhotsonic)
    • Rings attracted by the lightning shield are no longer confused by level wrapping (thanks to flamewing).
    • The lightning shield can now successfully attract rings when the player is at the extreme top or left of the level.
    • Super Sneaker effects are no longer nullified by water (thanks to MoDule)
    • Tails no longer trails along in flying animation when landing on objects (thanks to redhotsonic)
    • Tails' tails also flash when he is invulnerable (thanks to redhotsonic)
    • Fixed spindash cancellation on screen boundaries and when jumping immediately (thanks to flamewing)
    • Fixed spilt rings acting oddly in vertically-wrapped levels (thanks to redhotsonic and flamewing)
    • Fixed Super Sonic appearing in the wrong pose when dropped by Tails (visible during MGZ2 boss).
    • Fixed bugs relating to ICZ1-ICZ2 transition: you can no longer fly over the boss, and dying without having hit a starpost will correctly return you to the start of ICZ1.
    • Fixed issues with Tails flying Sonic into various objects and/or their areas of effect. (This can probably still happen in a bunch of places - let me know if you spot some. These issues are mostly easy to fix but involve changing each problematic object individually.)
    • Tails carrying Sonic to the floor no longer results in Sonic being able to walk around during level results.
    • Fixed underwater tired animation selection for Tails carrying Sonic
    • Sonic will no longer gain strange physics when Tails smashes an ice block from under him.
    • Fixed occasional glitched graphics/animations for Sonic when Tails places him on the ground.
    • The camera vertical offset will now reset when Tails carries Sonic.
    • Fixed sprite misalignment when Tails carries Sonic in Sonic alone mode
    • In addition to Sandopolis, Super Tails' flickies will also no longer make life harder during the Death Egg 2 boss.
    • When the lights go out in Carnival Night, the underwater palette also changes to reflect this (thanks to Neo).
    • Fixed CNZ vacuum tube whose art was pointing in the wrong direction.
    • No more floating platforms after the Launch Base building collapses.
    • More double-rings removed in Lava Reef.
    • Fixed sprite misalignment on Flying Battery midboss and Knuckles' waving off animation in Sky Sanctuary
    • Tails no longer acts like a div at the end of Mushroom Valley
    • Fire dashing or spindashing into the Death Egg boss area no longer causes collision havoc
    • Fixed abrupt/unsynced camera/music transition at the end of Sandopolis 2
    • The initial restart locations for Act 2 of Angel Island, Hydrocity, Launch Base and Lava Reef now better reflect the act 1 finish positions, making time results comparable.
    • The rumbling sound during the closing sequence of Flying Battery is no longer missing when restarting from the final starpost.
    • In certain circumstances, it is possible to break LBZ2 pipes containing water without following the water through the tube. Going offscreen would cause the water jet to be lost, rendering further progress impossible. The water jets now respawn correctly.
    • The falling animation is used after the Mushroom Valley/Hill Knuckles cutscene instead of the walking animation.
    • Fixed odd palette cycle stop point on Super/Hyper Knuckles during his ending.
    • Jump height off Hydrocity rotating cylinders is now appropriately reduced when underwater.
    • Level music no longer double-restarts before final boss in Death Egg
    • Competition music no longer restarts while navigating competition menus.
     
  20. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    OH MY GOD YES!!
    I will be playing the shit out of this!
    You're the best Tiddles!