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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. dsrb

    dsrb

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    That makes sense, since (as you implied) Hyper forms can breathe underwater.
     
  2. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    If Super forms can breathe in space (Doomsday Zone, Biolizard), why can't they breathe underwater or in toxic air?
    I always wondered...
     
  3. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    You're right, that makes a lot more sense. The Hyper forms should see this change, exclusively. However, Super Tails should not; for the same reason he doesn't have a Hyper form.
     
  4. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Slightly off topic, but related to Sonic 3... this question goes out to That One Jig.

    I noticed your avatar... with the two different Tails appearances. When playing in Sonic 3K, he has plenty of animations that use both of these different looks. Now, I know that they aren't THAT different, just the face, really... but do you, or does anyone else... know why this is so...?

    I notice this any time Tails enters an animation that features different angles of his face. The most blatent example is his standing-rotating sprite (Cylinders in Hydrocity, rotating platforms in Sky Sanctuary) He has a completely different looking face than he normally does.

    Was Tails meant to have a new look in Sonic 3, much like Sonic himself got? What's the deal behind this?
    And if so, could it be possible to see different sprite styles with Tails, like we have with Sonic?
     
  5. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    Hey, somebody noticed what was going on with it! Good job, you deserve a cookie. Flavors come in chocolate chip, oatmeal raisin, and tracking.

    For everyone who can't see, here is a larger image for comparison:

    [​IMG]

    I don't believe there's any concrete proof of it being so, but, based on the fact that these variations exist in the first place, I think that Tails was also meant to get a makeover much like Sonic in Sonic 3. Just look at the flying sprite alone. The artists already had both flying sprites AND tired sprites (from Sonic Crackers), so there was no practical reason to make just a few new sprites, with a completely new style, to replace the currently existing ones.

    The main differences are in the head and shoes. Everything else is exactly the same, but that doesn't mean that the leftover "new" sprites were complete. Or they might have been. Sonic's sprites differed greatly between S2 and S3, but you can count the major differences: 1) head and spines, 2) shoes, 3) shading on the stomach, and 4) thickness of limbs. All things considered, perhaps these different sprites were complete. But this is all just partial speculation and partial proof. I wasn't around to make Sonic 3, so I wouldn't know for certain. :tinfoil:

    As for making a complete sprite set with this different style, it would require a highly inspired artist to get it done. There are many different animations for Tails for which there isn't much to base things off of. 3/4 of the walking sprites need an original head, the running sprites need something new, the 12-sprite springing animation needs something completely pulled out of thin air, and so on. And that's not even considering the shoes. It isn't impossible, but it would need to be done by someone who can envision EXACTLY what the sprites need to look like. I don't really have an idea as to how I'd want to approach them, and I don't imagine I will in the near future. If anyone wants to step up to the challenge, they're free to do so!

    Even if they do get done, a new question comes into play: which sprites will be included in the base build? Sonic 3 Complete is meant to be the ideal Sonic the Hedgehog 3, which includes removing leftovers from past games (new level select/sound test, excision of remaining S2 sprites from Sonic's set, etc.). Technically this would mean that the newly completed Tails set would become the "true" S3 Tails, since the sprites in S3(K) are mostly of S2 Tails with a few changed sprites. And for that matter, what would happen to that specific collection of Tails sprites that consists of mostly S2 sprites and a few new ones? There's a lot of questions that need to be answered in a sensible manner for both Tiddles and everyone playing S3C.

    Personally, I just try to avoid this conflict and focus on other things. But maybe that's just me being a wuss. :v:
     
  6. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    It did seem like some of the sprite work was unfinished (eg. the leftover Sonic 2 sprites for Sonic) so Tails having a makeover intended makes sense. Then again Tails always seemed a bit more of a quick add on compared to the other two, so it's likely they didn't devote much time on him.

    Had an out of the blue idea, return the Super Sonic theme, but to despose of it's repetitiveness, use a fast track version of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEUa3xs-98I&feature=related
     
  7. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Why is it that when Tails gets hurt, only his body flickers while his tails do not? I understand that they're two seperate parts, but can something be worked around to force his tails to flicker along with his body whenever he takes damage? It would make for a more complete animation.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Machenstein

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    I'm more partial towards Howard Drossin's extension of the Sonic & Knuckles theme in the Virtual Sonic album. Try a fast track version of that instead.
     
  9. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I've no intention of changing the way Super music is handled by default. Even the longer track in S2 gets monotonous quickly.
    The current default is the best option and you will have a very hard time convincing me otherwise. I made the patches to allow invincibility music due to a couple of requests, and to keep with the principle of allowing important feature changes to be reverted, but I still cannot fathom why anyone would want to use them.
     
  10. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Very well, it was a rather surreal suggestion anyway (I kinda liked how Drossin extended some of the tracks for the OST).
     
  11. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    Yeah, the flashing stops for a quick instant instead of having a smooth continuous flow. It's probably because a color is being repeated on the palette, or the palette itself is incomplete from the lack of one color.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: On the other hand, maybe it's just a palette limitation.
     
  12. ChelseaCatGirl

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    Amy Rose in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and Sonic 3 And Amy Rose
    Hey guys, I made a few Sonic 1/2/CD sprites of Tails, for you guys, especially the ones from the Sonic CD 2011 rerelease which I didn't made. These will be perfect for the player sprite style's Sonic 1/CD and Sonic 2 Tails, I hope you like it.

    http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1497/sonic1and2tailsforsonic.png
     
  13. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    Ah, ChelseaCatGirl. I've looked at some of your past work with the Genesis Cream sprites, and I heard of your assistance with E-122-Psi's Sonic 3 and Amy hack. You've done great sprite work from what I've seen! In saying that...

    ...I don't know how much use these sprites will be. As you said, several of these sprites are straight from CD 2011. The problem with using those is that they are (supposedly) Chimpo's work, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers by using them without consent. Considering I don't think he even shows up on Retro anymore, I don't know how I could get in touch. Because of that, I'm just going to leave them by the side.

    Looking at the custom sprites there, they appear to be just a cut/paste of what's available from the CD 2011 set, especially with the carrying sprites (that o_o look, which doesn't seem to quite fit with the fact that he's carrying a hedgehog who's probably heavier than he looks). The biggest offender, though, appears to be the spinning platform sprites. Four of the seven are the CD 2011 sprites, but I'm mainly looking at two of the other sprites in that set. They're just the S3K sprites with previously used tails appended right to them. Not only does having full-size, stationary tails look off when riding a spinning platform, but when two consecutive pairs of sprites have the exact same tails, things start to appear "sloppy." I'm only saying that about these particular sprites, of course. Plus that second sprite in the set looks nice.

    I could also mention that Tails in S3K/S3C doesn't have a mahogany border, but that's besides the point. Anyways, I've already made changes to the S1/2 Tails sprites that need them, particularly those that hold that "True S3 Tails" style. I think everyone will be happy to see that the particular tired face used in CD 2011 and the sprites you posted will make it to the next S3C revision. That particular face originated from the Sonic Crackers ROM (not Chimpo's original work...unless he was working with SEGA in 1994), something that I didn't even notice until after the last release.

    Thanks for the sprites, regardless! Always happy to see work on sprites for S3C from others. :)
     
  14. ChelseaCatGirl

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    Amy Rose in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and Sonic 3 And Amy Rose
    You're welcome, glad you like a few of my works, though I don't own anything to them, what I meant was the original ones by the Taxman.
     
  15. That One Jig

    That One Jig

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    I know. It's just that, regardless of who "owns" the sprites, I don't want to use particular ones if it might cause public issues later on, especially if it steps on the toes of another fellow Retro member.

    Especially a (former?) moderator at that... :ohdear:
     
  16. ChelseaCatGirl

    ChelseaCatGirl

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    Amy Rose in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and Sonic 3 And Amy Rose
    I think this is the perfect super form theme!
     
  17. Knucklez

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    So I accidentally stumbled upon something odd. Due to the circumstance under which it occurs, I doubt there has been any mention of it at all.

    Since I have all Super Emeralds, the only way to access the Emerald Shrine is via the level select's 'Special Stage S'. Well, I did that and just happened to get interrupted by something, so I left the computer for a couple of minutes.

    When I came back, the Master Emerald along with the teleporter and the three orbs were all flashing several shades of red over their green glow. So I rebooted the game to see exactly how long it takes until the red flashing occurs.

    The red flashing starts exactly 2 minutes and 15 seconds from the moment you're teleported there. I can't think of what might be the cause of this. It wouldn't make any sense if it was intentional. It might be some palette malfunction.
     
  18. ToxicAtom

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    that wierd town in florida that sounds like a firs
    Something Crappy You Probably Don't Care About.
    as for the "Flying Battery original position cutscene", I would use the AIZ ship sprite, and have him hang onto that, and jump off at the begginning of SOZ. I never understood why the angel island Flying Battery was different than the level version...

    also would be nice to up the difficulty of MHZ, for consistancy.

    otherwise, this is woderful!n Nice Job!
     
  19. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    So how come the Hidden Palace teleporter that takes you there for the Super Emeralds is missing during actual level gameplay?

    [​IMG]

    But it's only there when you access the Emerald Shrine via Giant Rings or 'Special Stage S' in the level select?

    [​IMG]

    Could it be added in as art that you just walk in front of, not being a physical object you walk over and on?
     
  20. It is, I would assume because the sprite was designed to be shown with the Emerald in hand. But, seems some have interesting differing opinions on this one. :P

    Yes, this! lol Thanks for linking the gif. It's not supposed to be a continuous flow, it's meant to stop briefly on his regular (non-super) colours between flashes/glows. But as the gif shows, it stops on a slightly pinker shade.

    Also, while I'm here, meant to mention this in my last post. Knuckles' new AIZ intro, any chance of starting it off with his S&K theme as it did originally?

    Forgot about this till I gave the original a quick play on the MD collection for PS3, for which btw the sound emulation sucks enormous donkey balls. :v: