don't click here

Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. amphobius

    amphobius

    doing more important things with my life Member
    2,120
    0
    16
    life
    Uh. The only issue with the HUD is in AIZ1 and it's caused by the rocks. Changing graphics for the sake of changing them is one of the things that's being discouraged here, but if there's a solution (like what Sodaholic has proposed) then there's no need to change the HUD. It's a minor nitpick that's only there for the start of the game and gone for a large part of the rest of it.
     
  2. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    I might look into it, but it seems like I'd have to use a lot of VRAM or a lot of mapping frames to do that (or both).
    I should also correct myself: it's the lightest grey that conflicts, not the white. This colour is also present in line 0, so the suggestion is no less viable for it.

    They did no such thing. The shadow is present in those games too. Good luck seeing any text against a light background without it.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Knucklez

    Knucklez

    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    683
    17
    18
    Ok, so remember how I pointed out the SSZ sound channel issue? Well, the same thing is going on with the LRZ2 boss at the start of the boss stage. When the Hot Mobile hovers on screen in the background, you hear the Robotnik alarm tune play.

    Well, if you collapse the first collapsible platform or any other after the alarm tune begins playing from the start, its sound will completely cancel out the alarm for the rest of the brief missile assault. The only instance it remains playing after the platform collapses is if you let Sonic/Tails fall down on his default trajectory without moving him left or right, where he lands on the edge of the stable platform, touching the collapsible one partially enough to collapse it. The sound it makes plays at the same instance the alarm begins to play, therefore not cancelling it out.

    I'm assuming this is another sound channel oversight.
     
  4. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    Oversight is the wrong word. The other one wasn't an "oversight". There are a limited number of channels and you have to make some decision about what effects and music parts are going to use each. "Fixing" that would probably break something else.

    It's just a bad thing that happens. I find a new one every time I play, you know. But now I have to think about how to fix them every time, and you know what? Takes the fun out after a while, that does.
     
  5. Knucklez

    Knucklez

    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    683
    17
    18
    Woahhh no. That's why I said I was assuming it was, and yes it is the wrong word. I didn't mean it on your part though, I meant it on Sonic Team. But since it just happens based on the sound channel limit, then ok.
     
  6. I may be in the minority here, but I do not mind sound effects overtaking the music - I actually kinda like it, and wish SSZ wasn't fixed.
     
  7. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    Then I stand corrected... I guess its just easier to notice in Sonic 3 cuz of the color changing...

    Then what I would like to know, is where the HUD gets the colors from. Does Sonic's 1 & 2 get it from the first palette line? If so, then why doesn't Sonic 3 do the same? Obviously it doesn't, cuz a close look at the HUD in each Zone of Sonic 3, shows that its a slightly different color each time. Why the change?
     
  8. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    S1 uses the first line, S2 and S3 don't - there's no room with Tails around (even more so with Knuckles' socks in S3).
    As for why they would change in S3, I guess they just decided they needed to use those colours for other objects that vary from place to place. I can't say who made such decisions and why.
     
  9. Knucklez

    Knucklez

    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    683
    17
    18
    Regardless of why the HUD shadow has different colors from level to level, it should always be black. Figuring out how to implement that without damaging anything else should be the fun part.
     
  10. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    You and I have different ideas of fun. ;)
    I'm not pursuing that. It would be nice to change it in AIZ1, but that's the only place where there's actually a problem.
    As I've said many times, I work on this purely as a hobby in limited spare time. Once it becomes a chore, I'm done with it. Fixing every little trivial issue has never been the goal and never will be the goal.
     
  11. Knucklez

    Knucklez

    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    683
    17
    18
    Understood. And I wouldn't want you to stop working on this anyway. What you've done here really means a lot to those who absolutely love S3K. :thumbsup:

    The AIZ1 HUD being white really is the only issue, while the HUD of every other level is a gray or black, so you're right. No more discussion on this is necessary.
     
  12. MoDule

    MoDule

    Tech Member
    324
    6
    18
    Procrastinating from writing bug-fix guides
    Is there any reason you couldn't use the first palette line for the HUD numbers? Those colors never change, so it would be ideal.
     
  13. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    No yellow in it, and no room to fit one easily. I suppose I could change it to "Tails orange", but then it'd get all inappropriate in the face of Super Tails. I don't want to really change the colour anyway; DalekSam put the reasons for this well.

    One option I think I've mentioned before is to use the shadow colour on the numbers for the letters. That is generally pretty stable and certainly not a problem in AIZ. I still want to avoid that if possible because it would mean the HUD shadow would no longer flash when hitting bosses, which is actually quite a nice visual effect, intended or not. Also, actually changing the HUD graphics is kind of a pain - those letters get shared in all sorts of results screens and bits and pieces and it ends up being a serious bit of work.
     
  14. MoDule

    MoDule

    Tech Member
    324
    6
    18
    Procrastinating from writing bug-fix guides
    I've never dealt with the HUD, so I wouldn't know for sure, but do the text and numbers have to be on the same palette line? If not, I'd pt the numbers on the first palette line and keep the text on the second.
     
  15. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
    471
    0
    0
    Leicester, England
    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    The numbers could be moved to line 0, but they use a different shadow colour anyway and rarely suffer. It would make them a tiny bit more consistent if moved, though.
     
  16. Hey, just a few lil suggestions again.

    Knuckles bad ending (0-6 emeralds), stop Metal/Mecha/whatever Sonic exploding completely since he's intact in the post credits scene.

    Just before the credits though, this one kinda sticks out.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    On his knees out of breath & standing holding, erm, nothing 2 seconds later.

    And for the end with all Emeralds what's going on with Hyper Knux flashing pallette for his victory pose. Looks like its stopping on the wrong colour or something, hard to describe. :v:

    A quick one for Sonic/Tails Hydrocity 2.
    [​IMG]
    Maybe some falling animation wouldn't go amiss here.

    Quick Q, may have been answered before, anyone tried this on actual hardware? Currently saving up for an Everdrive.

    Once again, your humble nitpicker. :)
     
  17. That's not "holding nothing!" He's giving a thumbs-up!
    It actually fits rather well; after resting on his knees for a bit, Knuckles manages to muster enough strength to stand up and give a final thumbs-up to the player for completing the game!
     
  18. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

    OVER THE TOP TECHNO-BLAST Member
    1,620
    191
    43
    Buffalo, NY, USA
    The Water
    In that screen shot, it also looks like that arm is missing.
     
  19. Knucklez

    Knucklez

    I love 2B 'n' ass. Member
    683
    17
    18
    I'd like to see the Toxomister's smoke cloud not stick to you while you're in Super/Hyper form, and even while you're invincible.

    The cloud should just disperse on contact, as it would when you spindash. You shouldn't be susceptible to some toxic mist if you're invincible.
     
  20. That One Jig

    That One Jig

    aka RichterSnipes Member
    67
    2
    8
    Somewhere in America
    (Not) Working on My PokéHack
    I don't think that would be a good idea to implement. The Toxomister's smoke is meant to suffocate the character you're playing as with gas. Consider the fact that characters can still drown underwater while invincible or Super. The reason why the smoke would still affect you is much the same as water.

    The only change that this might see is to the Hyper forms (and Super Tails). Even that would be a stretch, though.