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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Knucklez

    Knucklez

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    On the second thought, scratch this. It's actually a bad idea. It's not like you can alternate between the two characters like in Heroes, it's really just Sonic with Tails by his side for show. The HUD actually makes sense the way it is, just as it did in Sonic 2 when the duo was introduced.
     
  2. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    It would only make sense if the game was played in a real Co-Op style mode, where the two characters played equally and pooled lives. That said, I'd love to see that... somehow.
     
  3. Machenstein

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    Beating Sonic 3 Complete again for the umpteenth time, I can't help but think how little sense it makes for Tails to stay with Sonic throughout Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg Zone. If Tails is with Sonic on the Death Egg when it is destroyed, and Sonic leaves Tails behind on the Death Egg to pursue Eggman in Doomsday Zone, how does Tails get back to the Tornado to catch Sonic during the ending? I know Sonic game aren't exactly known for making sense, but I wonder if this hack could somehow address this plot-hole.

    Here's what I'm thinking. During the cut-scene leading to Sky Sanctuary, have Tails stay behind in Hidden Palace Zone so that he could have enough time to get to the Tornado. Then, for Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg Zone, have Knuckles be Sonic's co-op partner for the rest of the game. The ending would depict it so that Tails had already caught Knuckles when the Death Egg was destroyed, making it so that Sonic and Knuckles are both riding on the Tornado.
     
  4. Josh

    Josh

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    MARRY ME.

    *Ahem* But seriously. That would be awesome to see, and would really address the whole "three player characters" aspect of the game. It'd even get me to play through with Sonic & Tails together for the first time in years.
     
  5. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I like your idea, up until the Knuckles co-op part... Just my 2 cents, I'm with leaving Tails behind at HPZ and Knuckles at the start of SSZ. But you make a great point on the plot hole part. What exploits that plothole even more is if you don't access Doomsday after the Death Egg... Then how do you explain Tails and the Tornado?
     
  6. DTX

    DTX

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    Here's one minute problem with that: Sonic, not Tails, flies the Tornado and catches Knuckles. Also, I might be mistaken here, but I'm pretty sure Knuckles's Sky Sanctuary Zone comes after Doomsday Zone chronologically. As in, after Sonic gets back the Master Emerald from Eggman, it falls down to Sky Sanctuary into the hands of Metal Sonic v3 and the "Knuckles path's antagonist" Egg Robo. Then, after Knuckles defeats Super Metal Sonic, Sonic catches Knuckles, and then the Master Emerald is returned to Angel Island Zone. Plus, Tails is a mechanic prodigy; he probably figured out a way to integrate Debug Mode into the Tornado, and by using the Debug Mode he made it all the way up to Sonic in no time flat. d= (;

    No seriously though, excepting that last sentence, that's the way it went down. Someone who has a much better idea of the story's structure and integrity, feel free to correct me on this.
     
  7. Machenstein

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    I'm only referring to the good ending you would get if you beat the game with the Sonic & Tails combination. If you start a game with the Sonic & Tails combination, Tails would be your partner throughout most of the game until Sky Sanctuary. With Tails left behind at Hidden Palace, Knuckles would become your partner for the rest of the game until Doomsday Zone. If Knuckles is with Sonic on the Death Egg when it is destroyed, and Sonic leaves Knuckles behind on the Death Egg to pursue Eggman in Doomsday Zone, the ending would reveal what happened to Knuckles after the Death Egg was destroyed.

    The ending would start the same way it usually does, with Sonic falling from space along with the Master Emerald. As Sonic is falling in the sky, Tails shows up with the Tornado along with Knuckles who is riding on the wings of the Tornado. Sonic lands next to Knuckles on wings of the Tornado as Tails uses the Tornado's grappling thingy to catch the Master Emerald. So Sonic, Tails and Knuckles ride off into Angel Island to drop off Knuckles and the Master Emerald. Then the credits roll as they usually do, then you see the epilogue with Egg Robo rising from the ruins, thus prompting you to play Knuckles' story.

    The only reason I propose having Knuckles be co-op for Sky Sanctuary and Death Egg Zone is so the second player can have someone to play as for the rest of the game.
     
  8. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Lemme try to field this. Keep in mind I'm for the initial suggestion of leaving Tails behind at HPZ, so I'm revising the canon to adapt to this scenario.

    A. Sonic 3 events, with Tails flying over carrying Sonic to MVZ after LBZ.
    B. Sonic & Tails adventure all the way to Lava Reef Zone, and venture into HPZ.
    C. Sonic & Tails vs. Knuckles fight (unless you wanna revise further, and take Tails out of this too :P)
    D. Sonic & Tails follow Knuckles to the teleporter, and Sonic follows Knuckles while Tails leaves. (To return to the Tornado)
    E. Knuckles gives Sonic his access to continue across SSZ, and Sonic pursues the Death Egg alone.
    F. Sonic destroys the Death Egg and (if you have all emeralds) pursues Eggman and the Master Emerald in space.
    G. Sonic brings back the emerald, Tails catches them both, and they return the Master Emerald to Knuckles in Angel Island Zone.
    --- Some time passes ---
    H. A leftover (arguably enhanced) Eggrobo and a still functioning Mecha Sonic re-emerge and steal the Master Emerald back, looking to carry out their master's plans.
    I. Eggrobo fights Knuckles, leading him through the same path, back to the remains of the now-destroyed SSZ, into a trap.
    J. Knuckles defeats both, and regains the Master Emerald again. This time, Sonic flies the plane (it IS his, after all) and rescues Knuckles and the Emerald.
    K. Insert feel good ending here.
     
  9. Willie

    Willie

    Each day the world turns Laugh 'til it all burns Member
  10. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Here's something I just thought of... If you are looking to make this a Mega Drive version of Sonic & Knuckles Collection, have you given any thought to adding Blue Sphere? Perhaps MainMemory could assist with this??
     
  11. muteKi

    muteKi

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    You haven't downloaded a release in a while, I take it.
     
  12. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

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    I remember asking you a while ago if I could make a fork of this with Sonic 1 sprites in it. Guess it's not really necessary now, since that feature is implemented in the official version.

    Regardless, can I make a feature request? For Sonic 1 and 2 sprites, can there be an extra option to have 4 shades of blue instead of only 3 (including making Tails use his darkest shade of orange)? 3 shades are pretty much just fine for Sonic 3 style sprites, but it feels very weird with 1 or 2 style sprites (especially 1). I understand this would require removing the green color from the palette line, but not much uses it anyway, and blue in it's place isn't so bad for things that do use it.

    And this isn't as important, but shouldn't the greyscale shades (the 3 greys and then black) be the ones from S1/2 (the fully desaturated and slightly darker grey shades, and true black instead of very dark grey)? Also, the ring sprites when using either S1 or S2 sprites should be the S1/2 ring sprites, not still using Sonic 3's.


    I'd be glad to do any necessary graphics work for the sprites for this 4 shade feature.
     
  13. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    I find it more likely that Tiddles might be able to help me with my hack than I with his. But if he wants to add things like Sonic 3K mode, Turbo mode, and SRAM to his hack, I would be happy to help. I doubt he wants that though, and if he did he could probably figure it out himself.
     
  14. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I just remember this being brought up before... in one of your topics... The Blue Sphere Plus topic, if I'm not mistaken. I think you gave a similar, if not same response... I'm just curious about if Blue Sphere would be put in, because if the goal now (judging by the topic subtitle) is a Mega Drive/Genesis version of an enhanced Sonic 3K Collection... Blue Sphere fits like a glove.

    Anywho, since you are here, MainMemory... (or if Tiddles could answer as well) Would it be possible to fit it in with all the stuff currently present in this hack? Or would there not be enough room, do you think? I know that the Blue Sphere maps are constructed with smaller maps that construct a portion of the full stage... though I don't know exactly how it works. surely it wouldn't be too much trouble to cram in there?

    Disregard, and trash if you would please.
     
  15. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    KingOfHarts, if you go to the wiki page you'll see the title screen, which clearly shows a "Blue Sphere" option.
     
  16. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    Oh... Holy embarrassing moments Batman...
    You are right... I totally forgot this.

    I feel like a complete dumbshit... You know what it is...? I'm so used to playing Sonic 3 Complete ONLY, that I don't bother with any of the other features... Just disregard those posts then. I'm gonna go feel like a moron now... Next I'll forget there is even a root menu to begin with, since I configured it to run Sonic 3C on startup...
     
  17. muteKi

    muteKi

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    So you guys were saying about super sonic music and how there's that unused track in S&K Collection, right?

    I even added some PSG stuff because hell yeah why not -- and because I liked how S2's Super Sonic music started out sounding like the special stage song's intro.

    I should point out that the SMPS file is still in Sonic 1 format (including sample references), and I think the tempo of the file might need tweaking too.
     
  18. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Sounds a little too plain if you ask me, and not very S3K like...
     
  19. muteKi

    muteKi

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    Nah, I can definitely dig that. I might keep messing with this in the near future; it'd probably take a complete retooling of channels 3,4, and 5 to get to something more consistent with the rest of S3. Tried to use UVB voices in hopes that'd make things sound a bit more consistent, but it was not to be.
    Does that split of XM3SMPS support pitch bending and stuff?
     
  20. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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