It shouldn't matter - I frequently test it by just using a PAR code to force it to happen mid-level. Does it crash at a certain point consistently? (E.g. before the flash/noise, after, before or after the music fades, etc.?) And which emulator or flashcart are you using? Yeah, I snuck that one in at the last minute. I think it makes more sense, without getting too creative. Shame nobody mentioned this before I already reworked a load of Knuckles artwork! Very faintly maybe - but it's quite a bit of fiddling about (clearly storing all Knuckles' art in one place with one algorithm would've been far too easy to work) and it's not like this is inconsistent within the game like the main palette was, nor is it something that couldn't have very easily been made that way to begin with if that was the intention (though it does indeed quite obviously contradict the official art and later appearances). Heck, I was very tempted to go with Pink Knuckles as the default, given that it's wholly legitimate as a Sonic 3-ification change - there's exactly one place you ever see him with his S&K palette in S3, and that old palette is even carried into competition mode and the special stage results in S3K. Just too many colours in that ending to do it right, I think (particularly given how much of it the ME's on screen for in the good endings). My personal palette peeve is Knuckles' Hydrocity underwater palette. In fact, some of the others aren't that good either, with Launch Base standing out as by far the best. So that's definitely on my list to try to improve.
Cool, well, if you can be bothered! I'd support this, I think. Guess it's about time I put my money where my mouth is and play this (latest) suckah. :v:
http://info.sonicretro.org/images/a/a6/Sonic3-box-jap.jpg (JP) http://info.sonicretro.org/images/6/6b/S3-eu-box.jpg (EU, where pinkie comes from, non-pallet-wise) Is Pink Knuckles really legitimate as a Sonic 3-ification? Original art says no. Better leave it optional
I'm unsure myself. I think in DEZ2/Doomsday it's still only a single color that's being changed. It just happens that it's not the same color during the ending; I think it's like the lightest vs. the second-lightest color of the emerald's greens that's changing.
I know none of the official JP art is pink, but as I say, the pink palette is used all over Sonic 3 in a very deliberate fashion. That's in stark contrast to the yellow socks, which are clearly a palette conflict and have hence been totally obliterated. The Chaotix sprites are also closer to pink than red, in spite of his title screen sprite being red and all art being definitively red by that point. Oh, and now that I'm looking at Chaotix, he has the yellowish crescent there too, even on the title screen. Did the sprite and paper artists even talk to each other?
I gave a shot and I played with "pink" Knuckles, and it's hard to argue the whole "Sonic 3" vibe it gives. Too much time with him as "pinkie" in Sonic 3 alone is to blame I think. I confess that I am more inclined to the idea now. And speaking of "defaults" "Always play S&K music in the S&K game mode." (being S&K mode, for possible unaware readers, when you press B+Start at the title, not S&K stages in the regular mode) should be the default, imo, it makes kinda sense (I my mind at least).
What I always found strange about the EU box art is that the green and yellow on Knuckles' shoes is reversed.
It's surprising how people can't distinguish colors. Knuckles', whether in 'Pink' or 'Red' mode is still pink, just a different shade of it. 'Pink' is a lighter pink, while 'Red' is a darker pink. RED is the color on the tips of his shoes. RED is the color on Robotnik's shirt. Knuckles has never been red during gameplay, he's only been pink. If anything, the Sonic & Knuckles title screen shows what he's really supposed to look like in terms of his true colors. His entire body is red and the crescent on his chest is white. Nuff said. Think of something. If anything, the red on his shoes is the color he should be. Judge for yourself.
What I always found strange about the EU box art is that all the characters look as if they were run over by a bus. I don't think it's a reliable piece of artwork. but yes, Knuckles was intended to be a bit pinker than the likes of Mighty, or his shoe colour, or whatever. I think it's something that was phased out, much like the light blue Sonic.
Well, yeah, but that's clearly not the point at all - one version is much more strongly pink and one is much closer to red. You can call the colours "Colour 8243" and "Colour 6189" if you want. It doesn't change that there are still two visibly discernable palettes here, and that the one closer to the official colour barely appears at all in Sonic 3, and is used consistently in Chaotix gameplay. I guess we could all refer to "the Knuckles colour that's more pink and not much like the official art" or "the Knuckles colour that's a bit more red but still pink because that distinction is vitally important", but I sort of prefer the "pink" and "red" short definitions. Hmm, so it is. That makes me think that the EU boxart might've actually been based on the sprite as seen for most of Sonic 3. But why the green at all, then? No clue. (As far as I know, there's no evidence of the green being that way round in the sprite at any point, or of yellow socks being intentional, given that Sonic 3 shows Knuckles as pink with green socks nearly everywhere it has the palette freedom to do so.) Agreed! I always hated how stupid that box looked. And seriously now, what's the deal with the logo being completely different between all three boxes? Interesting - if the colours there are accurate, it looks somewhere between the two sprite versions in the game.
I wish you had told me this earlier! All of Knuckles' underwater palettes are ridiculous. Even though the red in his shoes is always the same color, Knuckles's skin fluctuates from red to purple to brown. What I did was follow the lead the shoes gave me and created a single palette that fits all the situations. Should be obvious, but left is old and right is new: I also took another whack at the TAILS text and made a new one from scratch. I think it's as good as I can make it. Then I took the old screenshot I posted earlier and made a horribly lazy hoax. Again, left is old, right is new: Finally, let me just get this out there: if you ever want/need help with anything concerning graphics, feel free to ring me up, man. I love to be able to contribute in any way.
OK, all those look pretty great. Cheers! I'll need to see how the Tails results graphics look against the other level BGs but they look very promising. Don't suppose you'd care to do a matching SUPER graphic would you? :v:
aaaaaaaa Dammit, I forgot about that. I don't suppose I could trouble you for the original SUPER SONIC/SUPER KNUCKLES graphics? EDIT: I also fixed some inconsistencies in the first one, so, yeah.
Two things I've always longed for, they are not based on Sonic 3-ification, but based on Sonic & Knuckles Collection: - The entire FM Synthesized version of the Sonic 3 & Knuckles soundtrack is far beyond that of the Genesis version, in terms of quality and just being better IMO. I was wondering if you could and if it was in your interest to create a patch that would use the FM Synthesized and MIDI formatted soundtracks from Sonic & Knuckles Collection in place of the Genesis/MegaDrive soundtrack. - We all know how Sonic speeds up onto the Sonic 3 / Sonic 3 & Knuckles title screen, but he always looked as though he was delayed by something since his sprites practically look as though they've been slowed down or the game is skipping frames: In the Sonic & Knuckles Collection version however, the image flows naturally: With that said, would you create a patch for this? Of course however, I have a feeling that the Genesis Engine or the ROM itself cannot support the formats of these soundtracks or the full speed title screen. I don't know, I'm wondering whether or not they can. If they can, would you do this?
1. You can't use midi files in Sonic 3 & Knuckles: this game (like most Sonic games on the Genesis) uses a music format that's called "smps". There are smps conversions (done by me and by other people) of some of the S&KC-specific songs such as CNZ or LBZ, but I don't think they should be included here as they are beyond the scope of this hack. That said if Tiddles will eventually want to feature some of those songs I will be glad to send him my files, but I don't see that happening. Also, there are no smps conversions of the S&KC songs which were featured naturally in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, as far as I know, because that is quite pointless. The arrangement differences, when they exist, aren't extensive enough to warrant such a conversion, at least in my opinion. Again -- not my hack, not my decisions, I am just stating my opinion. 2. This is indeed weird, as the S&KC is nothing else than an emulator in a wig. I can't provide you a verified answer, but my guess here is that the slowdown is caused by a routine which decompresses and loads graphic tiles for the Title Screen. On a real Genesis, or in an accurate emulator, this routine is slowed down by the speed of the 68000, but it's more than possible that Sega didn't cap the processing speed of the 68000 in their emulator, thus allowing that routine to run much faster, reducing the time needed to load the Title Screen graphics. But this is just speculation. EDIT: added quote because of new page.
It's not emulating a 68k at all, it's x86 code, and all decompression is instantaneous (KosM doesn't use the queue).
Interesting, it turns out I was wrong once again. Good thing I learnt to end my posts with "this is just speculation" when I'm not sure :v:
If someone felt sufficiently altruistic to make a consistent set of Sonic 3 SMPS versions of all the unique S&KC music, I'd love to include it as a patch option. It's easier for me now than it used to be, since I can reuse a lot of the dynamic switch stuff that I added for S&K tracks this iteration - although it's still a fair bit of work to build switching in for all those extra tracks. It's a big undertaking though and I don't anticipate it happening any time soon, for the same reasons I won't put the time into it myself. And I can't see any benefit in porting the tracks that are just MD soundalikes - they're too similar to justify the work, and it's not like they'd sound exactly like they would on OPL3 anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong, music experts!)
Just for the sake of comparison, it shoudl be noted that in S3K you actually do see the "pink" colors on playable Knuckles, if only for brief periods of time: BEFORE AFTER The second picture is the "base" frame of the Super/Hyper Knuckles color cycle. Clearly not the same. And just for the sake of comparison: Tails' two forms have the same base I'm not sure that we should take this as evidence of anything in particular in regards to whether or not pink Knuckles is "better" but it's something I thought was interesting enough to note if not already common knowledge.
