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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Fred

    Fred

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    Which makes me wonder why the inconsistencies in the palette exist at all.

    Maybe uniforming Knuckles' colors is within the scope of Sonic 3 Complete? :)
     
  2. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

    & Knuckles Member
    <!--quoteo(post=428929:date=Mar 20 2010, 09:28 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Mar 20 2010, 09:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=428929">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which makes me wonder why the inconsistencies in the palette exist at all.

    Maybe uniforming Knuckles' colors is within the scope of Sonic 3 Complete? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The green of Knuckles' shoe over-rides the yellow in the HUD if you were to change the palette of the currently used method, hence why the yellow is on his socks. I dunno about the different red shades, but I assume it's the same thing.

    EDIT: The burgundy reds look like they could have used the same reds as his shoes, which is a bit baffling as to why they didn't.
     
  3. amphobius

    amphobius

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    Clearly, this is Knuckles' sister, who has the same name as Knuckles.

    Jokes aside, I can see where the socks are coming from, but the shades of reds are a joke, really.
     
  4. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=428930:date=Mar 20 2010, 09:31 PM:name=D.A. Garden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (D.A. Garden @ Mar 20 2010, 09:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=428930">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The green of Knuckles' shoe over-rides the yellow in the HUD if you were to change the palette of the currently used method, hence why the yellow is on his socks. I dunno about the different red shades, but I assume it's the same thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The red in Knuckles' quills would change... to the red in Knuckles' quills?
     
  5. Varion Icaria

    Varion Icaria

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    <!--quoteo(post=428686:date=Mar 20 2010, 08:03 AM:name=nineko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nineko @ Mar 20 2010, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=428686">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=428679:date=Mar 20 2010, 12:32 PM:name=Tiddles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiddles @ Mar 20 2010, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=428679">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=428625:date=:name=EnterTheHatrix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EnterTheHatrix) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=428625">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We know that Sky Sanctuary can support all 3 characters palettes already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No more so than in any AI Knuckles appearance... in every case where Sonic and Knuckles appear together, a special palette is loaded for that scene, and then discarded - Sky Sanctuary is no different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Just using a picture to prove that Tiddles is right:
    [​IMG]

    I'm surprised that there is still some people who don't know these things, you might expect this to be common knowledge by now :(
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The Palette inconsistency is the way "Scene" Knuckles as I call him is drawn to share the Teleporter's Pink color Aswell as what was explained about the HUD colors. I myself have been trying to find a way to re-arrange art colors and get around this but it all depends on the Current "Scene" and what's happening in the level really.
     
  6. Normal Sonic 3 and Knuckles gitch found -

    Yesterday I was playing as Knuckles with all chaos emeralds (from the beginning) I got to CNZ2 and right at the end, I just came out of a bonus stage, I didn't go through the ground like Knuckles normally does, but instead continued on Sonics path for some reason (as super knuckles). When I fell down to the area where Knuckles hits the switch to suck Sonic up to Robotnik, the switch wasn't there (obviously) there was no capsule, no sign post, nothing. I couldn't use the teleporter and I wasn't getting sucked up to the top to fight robo. I was pretty much stuck down the bottom with 300 rings. By a small amount of luck though, I was able to climb up the tube and jump climb up to the other tube after trying (and wasting) about 180 rings.

    I haven't been able to locate where the glitch occurred yet. It might have been when I left the bonus stage, it might have been because earlier on I skipped half the level by jumping across the barbers poles to get towards the end.

    I assume you hit a point in the game as knuckles where it loads the capsule in Knuckles area. This should get fixed to detect if you're knuckles as it's not the first time it's occurred for me.
     
  7. Fred

    Fred

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    Yeah, that's an old glitch. I assume the point marker doesn't save which plane you're on, so it dumps you on Sonic's by default. It's actually a way to legitimately fight the boss as Knuckles.
     
  8. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    There are many ways to get on the "wrong" plane there, and even if you don't, you can jump onto the top path at every opportunity if you so choose - and this always results in the egg prison being missing and the teleporter not working.

    It probably won't be fixed in the next release, but it's high on my list to fix after that.
     
  9. Wesker

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    This is a dream come true for everyone who prefers the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 theme to the Sonic & Knuckles theme, and it's also the way the game should have been shipped back then. One of the best hacks I have seen around for sure, up to the point that I consider it already the default version of the game to play (and that's much considering is my favourite Sonic the Hedgehog game).

    The game is already pretty fine as it is now. Some of the proposed changes tend to make it like some sort of "Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Deluxe" or something on the like. The version there is now already fits the purpose of being "Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Complete" in my eyes. I would only point out a couple of things, mainly in the musical changes.

    First, I don't agree with those who say that the S&K mini-boss tune should be the standard and the STH3 mini-boss tune should go to the Knuckles fight only. I prefer the way it its now, if just because this mainly is a "Sonic 3-ification" as it was named already, and even if it appears that tune was intended mainly for that fight alone and because of the similarities with the Knuckles theme. The only thing I would do to give it a little more relevance to the S&K mini-boss tune would be to add it also to the first Launch Baze Zone Act 2 fight, so all three boss fights would have different musics (of course, I totally agree with the restoration of the third boss fight, and also with having the sky darkening and the final boss tune for it, because this mid-part is a crutial point for the whole adventure since this is the first attempt of launching the Death Egg that there's in the game). Having the S&K mini-boss also being used there, it would be consistent to other stages that also had double confrontations with Dr. Eggman, like Flying Battery Zone Act 2, which already has the S&K mini-boss tune for the first fight and the standard Eggman boss tune for the second. The mini-bosses, no matter which they are, should stay with the STH3 mini-boss tunes since none of them are impersoned by Dr. Eggman.

    Second, although the STH3 Credits music does fit perfectly with the ending scene, making it standing as a proper ending music sequence instead of just reusing the Sky Sanctuary music, and making the ending similar that way to Sonic the Hedgehog 2 with its "Sweet Dreams" ending theme. But it just for the people who loved listening that music matched to a credits sequence, there could be a IPS patch moving the STH3 Credits music and replacing the music medley (which, on the other hand, is much better now by using the complete medley of the STH3C beta that was leaked). The ending sequence would still retain the Sky Sanctuary music that way I guess. Again, I see the current musical choice in both the ending and the credits to be fine and be standard way as it is now, but as an alternate thing to be done with IPS patches, it would be just great.

    And about some important extensions of the game that have been discussed already, I wouldn't bother that much with the Tails presence up until the very end of the game in a Sonic & Tails play being inconsistent with him appearing afterwards with the Tornado. After all, this isn't a Sonic Adventure game, and the game doesn't rely in explaining this plot aspects too much. I would leave it as it is now, so it wouldn't ruin the gameplay balance as it was set up. Anyone can play or a Sonic alone play or the separate Sonic & Knuckles game to have that right. And seeing Knuckles to pilot the Tornado just doesn't seem right to me (the only time he was seen piloting anything was the shuttle of Sonic Adventure 2 and he almost crashed the thing. By the way he was born, he has never had piloting basics for sure). I prefer as it is now, even if resulting somewhat strange.

    I also wouldn't bother to replace Flying Battery Zone where it was originally planned. Sure it would fit, giving the level transitions that there are (as said, only Knuckles would have a problem with that, and also something would have to do with the missing link between Mushroom Hill Zone and Sandopolis Zone), but I think that would break the game balance among its two sides and would left the STH3 way part of the game longer than the S&K part. It would be fine for an alternate thing to do via IPS patching, but I wouldn't let it as standard. Plus, in order to have the game that way, I would try to do something in order left the game allow to go for the Super Emeralds just after you have managed to get the regular Chaos Emeralds already, and not having to wait to arrive Mushroom Hill Zone already, because with Flying Battery Zone now on the STH3 side instead of the S&K side, you are left with fewer chances to get the Super Emeralds.

    Either way, I want to thank Tiddles a lot for doing this, as it was something I have always wanted to see, and even when the STH3C beta was leaked out, it was still an incomplete representation of it due to obvious beta-prototype reasons.
     
  10. First off, let me say thank you for this incredible hack. It's everything I've wanted Sonic 3 to be, and more.

    I was playing coop the other day, and play broke down a bit when we got to Sky Sanctuary. None of the teleporters will take Tails with Sonic, so we have to wait for him to fly in after every teleporter. It's a minor inconvenience.

    While you are fixing debug mode bugs, there are some graphical errors associated with Knuckles in Sonic's LBZ2.

    [​IMG]

    Robotnik is here.

    [​IMG]

    Two things. First, Knuckles is in the Eggmobile backwards. Second, the event Knuckles is not there.

    [​IMG]

    This boss is garbled. LBZ2 music is still playing, and the sky doesn't darken after this one is beaten. After you beat the Big Arm boss and Knuckles' normal cutscene plays, the camera pans way down and right, to a darkened sky.
     
  11. Feature Request: Give the player the ability to drop tails out of "flying" so that he falls with a button combination like down + A/B/C. I'm sick of waiting for Tails to land on the ground and this also causes another problem in CNZ2 where you can bounce forever when tails in exhausted after Knuckles turns out the lights (the area where the water level lowers, where the bouncers are that bounce you in a zig-zag line) This can be avoided by allowing flying to be cancelled out. obviously, don't let Tails fall into a roll otherwise this can be used as an advantage against most bosses.
     
  12. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=432805:date=Mar 28 2010, 07:17 AM:name=EnterTheHatrix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EnterTheHatrix @ Mar 28 2010, 07:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=432805">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feature Request: Give the player the ability to drop tails out of "flying" so that he falls with a button combination like down + A/B/C. I'm sick of waiting for Tails to land on the ground and this also causes another problem in CNZ2 where you can bounce forever when tails in exhausted after Knuckles turns out the lights (the area where the water level lowers, where the bouncers are that bounce you in a zig-zag line) This can be avoided by allowing flying to be cancelled out. obviously, don't let Tails fall into a roll otherwise this can be used as an advantage against most bosses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I want Knuckles to be able to climb ceilings and dig through walls.

    Though, you bring a valid point: force Tails into a spin if he's flying when he hits the bumpers. And also, if you haven't already, make it so Hyper Sonic doesn't activate bobbins with his dash attack. :E
     
  13. pyrotix

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    I love this so much. Played it completely through yesterday.

    My only minor complaint is a couple things glitching in Launch Base zone, making it difficult to get past the barriers where you need to destroy a red sensor to get through.

    Also the grasshoper-type badniks were glitching in LBZ.

    But thank you for making this. Great work!
     
  14. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    <!--quoteo(post=435370:date=:name=pyrotix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pyrotix) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=435370">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love this so much. Played it completely through yesterday.

    My only minor complaint is a couple things glitching in Launch Base zone, making it difficult to get past the barriers where you need to destroy a red sensor to get through.

    Also the grasshoper-type badniks were glitching in LBZ.

    But thank you for making this. Great work!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Any chance of detail/screenshots/savestates of these? There shouldn't be any practical differences in Launch Base (that don't also happen everywhere else) until the bosses. If I've somehow knackered something up I'd be keen to take a look, though most of the time when I think I've done so, it turns out to be yet another problem in the original. :)

    In any case, thank you - and other recent posters on the same note - for your kind words.
     
  15. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Hate to double post, but it's high time for another release.

    Here's what's new:
    Code (Text):
    1. New features:
    2. - Knuckles' intro cutscene now plays in Angel Island rather than S&K Mushroom Hill.
    3. - The Knuckles Mushroom Hill demo now plays in the Sonic 3 demo sequence
    4. - Sonic's Angel Island intro can now be skipped using the Start button
    5. &nbsp;&nbsp;(only until Knuckles interjects).
    6. - Added entries to Level Select for the Gumball Bonus Stage
    7. &nbsp;&nbsp;and the Hidden Palace Special Stage entryway.
    8. - Debug only: Characters other than Sonic appear correctly in Doomsday.
    9.  
    10. New fixes for S3&K bugs:
    11. - The normal super transformation sound effect is now used in Doomsday.
    12. - Fixed HUD shadow colour in burnt area of Angel Island. (Thanks to Hayate)
    13. - Fixed spring artwork occasionally not being loaded for the Gumball Bonus Stage.
    14. - Big Al says echidnas can't look up without shifting forward a pixel.&nbsp;&nbsp;Big Al is now incorrect.
    15. - Underwater palette now reverts properly when losing super/hyper for Knuckles and Tails.
    16. - The Lava Reef and Death Egg boss areas will remember their starting timer
    17. &nbsp;&nbsp;if you die and restart (unless you die from a time over)
    18. - It is no longer possible to gain extra lives from 100 or 200 rings in the Lava Reef boss area
    19. &nbsp;&nbsp;if you already earned those lives earlier in act 2.
    20. - Robotnik's bald shine on the save screen is no longer red
    21. - Stopped running animation being displayed in place of victory or super transform animation
    22. &nbsp;&nbsp;when in front of a solid object
    23. - The Launch Base music now only restarts once after Knuckles defeats the Act 1 boss.
    24. - Restored faster Sonic 3 continue/race results/Blue Sphere music (patchable).
    25. - Debug only: Hyper Knuckles can now wall smash when turned hyper by a monitor.
    26. - Debug only: Tails' ring counter now falls in Doomsday
    27. - Debug only: Knuckles exits Doomsday to the title screen instead of a broken Sonic ending
    28.  
    29. Fixes for Sonic 3 Complete-only bugs:
    30. - The debug code entry status never got reset when leaving level select,
    31. &nbsp;&nbsp;so you could enter half of it, go to the title screen or play a level, then start from the middle.
    32. &nbsp;&nbsp;This is now fixed.
    33. - The code for all Super Emeralds will now not work in S&K mode unless debug is also enabled.
    34. - Completing a Special Stage from the level select within S&K mode
    35. &nbsp;&nbsp;will no longer place you in Angel Island.
    36.  
    37. New optional patches:
    38. - Use the S&K 1up track only, with S3 tunes for all the other tracks.
    39. - Revert to the slower S&K version of the continue/race results/Blue Sphere music
    40. - Use the original double-jump/transformation button setup
    41. - Disable ability to cancel out of super/hyper
    42. - Disable Big Arm boss in Launch Base 2
    43. - Start S3 credits music at credit sequence
    44. &nbsp;&nbsp;(best used in conjunction with the patch to restore the Sky Sanctuary ending music)
    45. - Continuous ending music throughout both ending and credits
    Special thanks also to Hayate for some code refactoring which has been added back into Complete.

    Pick it up from the <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic 3 Complete (hack)" target="_blank" style="background: url(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/5/50/Reticon.png) right no-repeat; padding-right: 20px; border-bottom: 1px dotted #3366BB; color: #3366BB; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:none;" class="wiki">Sonic 3 Complete (hack)</a> wiki page.
     
  16. Fred

    Fred

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    Game seems to hang every time I try double-jumping after applying the normal super transformation patch.
     
  17. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    I was wondering, can we suggest you patch ideas? or even features/misc. ideas?
     
  18. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    <!--quoteo(post=438133:date=:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438133">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Game seems to hang every time I try double-jumping after applying the normal super transformation patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Err... oops. :)

    This was happening only as Sonic and only with insufficient emeralds for a transformation. I'd missed reverting one bit of the reordering that normally allows you to transform when you already have a shield, so that you could get stuck in a loop. I guess I only tested it with emeralds... unfortunately the patches don't get tested quite as heavily as the main build.

    I've re-uploaded the IPS patch archive now with a fixed version of that patch.

    I've also just uploaded a version of Hayate's customizer from Sonic 3 Customizable, set up to apply the 100404 patches for this hack, so feel free to use that instead - the fix is in there too.

    <!--quoteo(post=438291:date=:name=Icewarrior)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Icewarrior) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=438291">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was wondering, can we suggest you patch ideas? or even features/misc. ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sure, feel free. That's not to say I'll necessarily do anything about it, but I do read and consider everything - although please bear in mind that the purpose of this hack is to provide a suitable drop-in replacement for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so I'm unlikely to consider significant creative or gameplay changes (B+C double jump is already pushing it). I'm already hoping to act on a few previous suggestions for the next version.
     
  19. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    No worries, would be just music patches actually:

    - Use of the S3 invincibility theme for invincibility and S&K invincibility theme for Super/Hyper forms
    - Use of the S3 miniboss theme for S3 mini-bosses and S&K miniboss theme for S&K mini-bosses
    - Use of S&K Knuckles theme exclusively, for both his appearances and fight

    I'll see if I have other ideas

    EDIT:
    Well, don't know if it's been mentionned already but Super Tails, without the birds, available after you get the 7 chaos emeralds and Hyper Tails available once you got the 7 super emeralds, with birds, ghosts and immunity to drown. Don't know if it's actually achievable though.

    An intro cutscene for Tails, exactly like the Sonic one with the roles reversed obviously.

    Sonic 3-ification of the Sonic/Tails VS final Launch Base 2 boss battle ending (no "got through act 2" message, final boss theme keeps playing, just like in Sonic3, until Mushroom Hill)
     
  20. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Feature request: a patch to return super/hyper music to invinciblity rather than sped-up level music. I'm probably alone in this, but I prefer it.