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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Hi folks. I joined after seeing this thread and thinking someone might be interested in a similar edit I'd been working on for my own purposes.

    Head to the Sonic 3 Complete (hack) wiki page to download the latest version and read about what it does.

    Since I'm putting this into the public domain, allow me to take a moment to credit shobiz, whose code to do the initial music switch stuff got me started on this project (found at SSRG), and apologies to the Megamix folks for making off with the B+C Super activation concept, which turned out to be just the solution to "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" I'd wanted since I first played S3K (though it has partly been replaced again now). Plus about a squillion other contributors who've helped since this original post; they are now listed on the Wiki.
     
  2. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Tiddles for tech *brick'd*

    fddfdsfs

    Firstly,

    [​IMG]

    Secondly, IMO triple jump (which SATSEE uses) or "hold one button, press another" (which the S-Factor uses, A and C buttons respectively) are better than "press two buttons on the exact same frame". But whatever. Generally if I don't want to transform I'll start a new game and avoid the emeralds =P
     
  3. Namagem

    Namagem

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    I use it for ring conservation more than anything.
     
  4. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I tend to do it by holding C and pressing B - I'd hate to have to mash them at once too. You could equally hold B and press C if debug is off.

    Incidentally, I didn't mention it in the notes, but the debug sprite check function that used to be on C+B is on C+A in this version to accommodate the super switch.
     
  5. Xilla

    Xilla

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    On that note, has anyone tried placing Flying Battery between Carnival Night and Ice Cap?
     
  6. Overlord

    Overlord

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    No, but I'd imagine that's trivial to do - at a guess, 4 bytes changed and a few levels swapped around on the level select?
     
  7. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    I'd wonder whether the giant rings would stay as the flashing S&K ones.
     
  8. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    <The Has-been Legend> Moderator

    Well shoot, now I'm never going to play the original S3K again! Thanks so much for sharing! This is like, everything that could have possibly been wrong about S3K fixed, and tweaked. :)

    The definitive Sonic 3, if you will.
     
  9. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    To make it an FBZ reorder perfectly, I think you'd have to do the following, in order of least to most difficult:
    • Change the level exit object definitions in Carnival Night and Mushroom Hill
    • Re-order the level select
    • Probably do something about the flashing rings... I haven't looked into any of that code but it's probably fairly mundane to alter, and it might even be possible to simplify it since you no longer have the special case of zone 04 being out of sequence.
    • Do cruel and unusual things to the save game level order and icon sequence (although if you used the Sonic 3 FBZ icon, the icon stuff would be simpler)
    • Construct a sensible alternative cutscene between Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis (and possibly Carnival Night and Flying Battery if you don't buy the idea that the cannon would fire you up there by chance - might be able to port the MHZ one over?)
    I'd love to have a version that does this, but not quite enough to go through the pain of putting it all together myself, at least for now.
     
  10. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
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    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    The Mushroom Hill closing cutscene could be changed to use Angel Island's Flying Battery, maybe?
     
  11. Xilla

    Xilla

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    The Flying Battery could just be passing Mushroom Hill, Sonic just hung onto it until it flew over Sandopolis and let go! ;)
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Even the small details are awesome. Great work, dude. =O

    However, I'm not too fond of:
    ...Just because it's not intuitive at all, with all the main Sonic games using just one button for everything, and all. =\




    EDIT: After having played it for some time, I gotta ask about the reason behind this:
    Having the "got through" music interrupt the level tune sounds a bit... odd.
     
  13. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    I like to think of this as "Fix Tails' obsessive compulsion with painting the Tornado symmetrically."

    Indeed, it's a shame to lose the simplicity, and short of giving the game away in the manual, it'd be nigh on impossible to find the transformations at all if it had been set up this way originally. But ultimately I couldn't think of a better solution to the enforced transformation problem, which was one of my biggest problems with the original, personally. Triple jump is an elegant idea for Sonic, but Tails relies on that anyway for flight, and I also wanted to make sure I didn't make impossible any manoeuvres that you could do in S3K - which includes jump-super-glide, jump-super-fly, jump-hyper-dash.

    It's probably a bit of a pain if you usually jump with A though. I might look at making it anything-plus-B sometime. I've used C for a long time due to debug.

    Simply to imitate pure Sonic 3, which had no fade. I always preferred it that way, and after all Sonic 1-2 got away with it.
    I'm not sure whether this comes down to my having been stuck with the PAL version for years - with the fade there combined with lower speed, it seemed like we almost dropped to eerie silence before coming back with a jaunty victory theme. This isn't nearly so jarring at NTSC speed, but I still prefer the lack of fade.

    I did add it back in a couple of places where no fade sounded especially wrong - specifically where we go straight from boss music to victory music. That used to be Launch Base, Lava Reef and Sky Sanctuary, but now Sky Sanctuary is the only one left that works that way.
     
  14. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    Huh guys, quick question: what's this "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" thing you're talking about?
    I don't remember anything particular about Hyper Knuckles...
     
  15. If you had all the emeralds with knuckles and had 50 rings, any attempt to glide or wall climb would result in super/hyper knuckles
     
  16. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    Ah yes. The problem is the same for Tails too I guess.
     
  17. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

    Have an ice time Member
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    Am I the only one who enjoys using the Insta-Shield or what?
     
  18. Spanner

    Spanner

    The Tool Member
    I love how you changed the level select background to Sonic 3's data select background. :)
    I wouldn't mind looking at this data you're offering though.
     
  19. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    The Lava Reef boss should just restore LRZ2 music when you beat it anyway. The other two are like that because there's no capsule to open.

    I have to admit I never thought of that. Hold A, press C would do the job much better then. If you change the debug mode's gravity flip feature to be triggered when A is released and check that you didn't press C while it was pressed, that would avoid conflicts.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    You know, I think this is the first time I don't keep wanting to un-become Super Sonic due to the ear-piercing music. Now it feels more like a true reward.