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Sonic 3 Adventure

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by 8-Bit Dragon, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Even if I could run Sonic GDK, I kind of prefer Blitz3D's pipeline...which is simply export your model and load it. Sonic GDK requires a bit more effort in getting your assets into the game, and as far as I know, there is no material exporter for 3DS Max, which is a huge turn off for me. For every object I create, I have to rebuild the materials within UDK. I would really miss Blitz3D's simplicity.

    The other thing is that I'm not trying to set an unreasonable goal with this. I'm trying to reach a level of quality similar to SA2, which I believe Blitz3D can handle with ease, and which I feel I could do on my own if necessary. I don't have a lot of free time to work on this, so making low poly models for Blitz3D actually works out pretty well for me.

    I have the skill to make high quality meshes, complete with normal maps, for use in Sonic GDK, but time is a major concern. Adding to that, there doesn't seem to be a large community of people who know Sonic GDK very well. As I said on the main post, I do need a little help with this, and I just don't see it happening with Sonic GDK.

    If you could prove me otherwise, that Sonic GDK's pipeline can be streamlined to some extent, I might consider it.
     
  2. Looking at the pictures you're showing, I think this looks really good. Like I said earlier, as long as the handling issues are fixed, I think it's great that you're able to pull this off with BlitzSonic. My computer can run it just fine, so you're pretty much guaranteed that anybody who downloads your game will be able to run it. Sonic GDK seems to have a much higher set of requirements, hardware-wise, so if you did switch over to it, chances are that I, and probably a few other people, wouldn't be able to play the game.

    I think that the only thing I dislike about what I see is the size of the HUD. Would it be alright to resize it and make it smaller? It's rather huge as it is now, and all of the official Sonic games had them very small and out-of-the-way.
     
  3. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I agree about shrinking the HUD. My guess is you're currently trying to have it the same size relative to the screen as the classic series did, but it doesn't really work in this setting – and it seems to have gotten even bigger! :P
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Working on my art!
    Actually that's the BlitzSonic default hud. He probably just hasn't got around to changing it.
     
  5. This.

    But I'm working on it. Here is the numbers bitmap. I made this from the original Sonic 3 numbers by doing some pixel work, and then resizing them once there was enough detail to use filters for smoothing them out. I'll get around to doing the 'score time rings' soon.

    Edit: A little something else I'm working on...
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Some updates:

    I didn't get very much done last week, but this week has been going great so far. I fixed a few bugs relating to light dash, I fixed some bugs with Caterkiller Jr and Bloominator, and I added a new 3D sound command which makes it a bit easier to add a 3D sound to an entity. While I was messing about with sounds, I added a bit of code to pan the ring sound from left to right. Every little detail counts!

    But that's not all! I made a simple script for 3DS Max that will export objects and their locations to an xml. So now you have the option of making the xml right out of Max, as well as the other two methods using the auxiliary object mesh code, or the ObjectExport tool included with BlitzSonic. Later on I may create a simple modifier tool for adding attributes to objects within the scene.

    That script idea came about when I realized that there was no way I could get by without making some sort of path system. There are just too many obstacles and gimmicks in Sonic 3 that require them. So another thing I'm experimenting with now are paths. I had started on a rail system once before, and then later upgraded it to follow actual rail meshes. But that method is flawed because you have to configure how the player is to follow the rail. The best and easiest solution is to use objects, which are nothing more than invisible markers to tell Sonic which way he should run. I've modified my light dash code to accomplish this, and so far this method is working great. Its now just a matter of how and when to engage the path by setting up start and end markers which I will implement soon.

    I'll make a video as soon as I have enough to complete AIZ Act 1. In the mean time, enjoy a look at the first gimmick that will make use of path following!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Ell678

    Ell678

    Am I Annoying You? Member
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    Sonic Incursion
    I like your work so far, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
     
  8. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    I like it and disliked it at the same time. It's not that is bad, not at all. It just looks very... "Unrealistic". Not that Sonic's graphics (classic) are realistic but I always thought on that thing beeing a giant trunk, already rotten. And the texture you'd applyied helps to give that feel. So it wouldn't be really uniform on the top... Neither on the holes or the entrance in it. Also, about the holes, althought the original image had 'em, I don't think it will work greatly on 3D, if Sonic is going to run it like he did on the original game (like he does in the corkscrew), I mean if he goes into a hole he will fall and if you make the colision "solid" where there are holes it will look weird seeing Sonic walk on nothing.

    But whatever, I'm just beeing nitpicky... Looks good anyways and the glowing mushrooms added a nice depht to it. I suggest adding some roots on the sides and some folliage on top of it as well (a solid fooliage to give it form and a few planes with vines and transparency, perhaps), I guess that would look very cool as well and help to break the linearity of the whole piece, like this:
    http://I.imgur.com/aRoa2.jpg


    Sorry for the shitty drawing, I don't have my pen tablet in here right now.


    Edit: Oh yeah, don't forget the 1up monitor on top of the entrance :3

    For the Vines, think on this: http://goo.gl/lNfT8
    And for the entrance think on this: http://I.imgur.com/jwMhb.jpg (Maybe not quit as large)
     
  9. I took your advice about the vines and roots. I pretty much modified the textures and extruded some of the polygons to make roots. It's not perfect, but I can always change it later. And about the holes, I think they will be fine. Sonic should be running full speed, and his stride might give the illusion that he's stepping over them as he runs. Besides, once path following is fully functional I can begin to add camera effects. I was thinking about zooming the camera out and have it orbit around the tree about half as fast as Sonic, and then have it meet back with Sonic at the top. You probably won't notice if Sonic steps on the holes from a distance.

    Here is a new rendering of the modifications I made to the tree. I'll probably get around to producing the light maps and getting it into the game some time tonight.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Azu

    Azu

    I must be stupid. Member
    You can stream line textures. In fact, if you use TGAs and export them as FBX, you can import them straight into UDk and it will pickup the textures. Also, you don't need collision for most object see as UDK supports Per Poly Collision. I'm not sure if BlitzSonic has that. The only thing I image is a turn off is learning Uscript. UDK's editor isn't hard to learn once you get the hang of it. However, it's your game. You can use any engine you want. :D
     
  11. I'll look into it. The tutorial I found that dealt with fbx was for 'static objects', which I assume are objects that do not move, or objects that do not animate. The other thing I thought was sort of :specialed: was that you have to convert your mesh to tris before exporting. I thought this was kind of unusual for such an advanced engine. I thought for sure UDK would support quads, or convert within the engine. I know its a great engine, but I just can't get past some of these quirks.

    Anyways, here are some updates:
    The Sonic 3 hud is nearly finished, and I managed to get the tree exported. The stage seen here is a test stage I'll include with the release of the main engine.
    [​IMG]

    The light map didn't look right, so I removed it. I'll probably redo it, but the tree seems to look okay even without it.
    [​IMG]

    As you can see in the screenshot, Sonic follows the line of rings as expected. I just gotta work on camera effects, and flip the normals of the exterior.
    [​IMG]

    Finally, chaos drives for fun. The glow effect will be in shortly, I still have to do their texture! They behave as you expect, shooting up and gently floating down when they spawn. The display also works exactly as it does in SA2.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. This looks really, really good. I like the HUD a lot, and the only thing out of all of your pictures that really stands out and seems like it could be improved is the little photo of Sonic on the Lives counter on the bottom-left corner. Other than that, I honestly can't wait to play it!

    On an different note, my family went swimming a few days ago, and I found some hiking trails that followed the edge of the river. I honestly wish I had a camera with me, because the way it looked just looking down the trail with the trees growing on both sides and coming together overhead looked like an awesome approach to take towards the Angel Island Zone.
     
  13. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    Those screens looks awesome, man. Good stuff.

    Static Meshes are everything that isn't an actor (Like Sonic, Rings, etc) or BSP meshes (Cheaper geometry already into UDK so you don't have to model every single thing. They can be converted to KActors at anytime which can give them physics or movement, for example.
    Also, I'm not sure but I believe that UDK accepts quads.

    I think that you should always uses whatever makes you confortable with and only that. But I have to admit that I kinda feel bad seeing all this work you're puting into it, wasted in a old engine like that. That don't suport real lights, normal maps and seems so... Primitive, I dunno. But no presure, you should always use what makes you confortable with, in the end, that's what matters, right?
     
  14. Azu

    Azu

    I must be stupid. Member
    I believe quads are triangulated when imported anyways.
     
  15. SAGE 2012 is upon us, and BlitzSonic Freerunner engine is now available for download! You can find it at the Sonic Worldrunner forums in the announcements, or at the BlitzSonic Freerunner Engine SAGE booth. Questions and bug reports are welcome, as I'm trying to get this engine's source organized so that the engine will work as a great base from which to make better mods and to build the Sonic 3 Adventure game.

    Another thing I wanted to bring up was the name. Apparently the name is a little too close to Sonic Adventure 3. I chose the name "Sonic 3 Adventure" because it describes the game nicely - its Sonic 3, 'adventureized', but it may cause some confusion. So if there are any suggestions for a name change they are certainly welcome.
     
  16. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    Seems like sageexpo.org is down. BTW, game looks pretty nice. :)
     
  17. Impish

    Impish

    Member
    S3K Adventure. Doesn't matter If you aren't planning to do the "and Knuckles" part, but it keeps it separate while still getting you meaning across. Either that or "Sonic the Third: Adventure!" but that sounds ridiculous (pick that one).
     
  18. I played this one, and had mixed expectations. For one thing, I loved the idea to everything you were doing. The only big issue I had was the fact that you were using the BlitzSonic engine to do it. True, it's the only 3D engine other than SRB2 that my pathetic little laptop can run properly, but the physics and controls were so off that I found nearly anything I played utterly uncontrollable. Even looking on YouTube, I found that plenty of other people seemed to have the same problems I had, even resorting on a disturbing frequency to a flight cheat to repeatedly put Sonic back on the level, and yet nobody seemed to mention it. It had just seemed to become an accepted problem with the engine itself that nobody seemed to want to bother with fixing.

    I'm ecstatic to say that you seem to have fixed all of the problems I had with BlitzSonic entirely. I played through both test levels, and actually enjoyed the controls and was able to have a good time. All the previous levels I had tried to play before left me deleting them within ten minutes of starting them up, but I played though your little playgrounds repeatedly, enjoying all the little aspects that I wasn't able to tolerate before. I really love what you've done, and I can't wait until you update with some actual levels. I'd like to see what kinds of level design you can come up with now that you have an enjoyable, functioning engine that works the way it should.

    Of course, I'm not going to just gush on and on about the engine. There are a couple very minor issues that you can tweak to make this work even better. First off, the camera controls are odd. I admit, I'm using a touchpad instead of a normal mouse, but there are still some things you can do to improve this. The controls feel a lot like Sonic Adventure, and if you remember, that game would have the camera rotate automatically to show you the general direction to go next. If you could have the camera move in a default pattern to hint at which directions to go, the levels would be much easier to navigate. This would be even more useful regarding your hollow tree. I had a very difficult time trying to climb up it, and would appreciate if you would either have the camera automatically point Sonic at the correct angle that simply pressing forward would result in a successful climb, or if you could put in speed boosters and just use them to automate the segment in a similar manner as the whale attack in Sonic Adventure. The tree was very difficult to climb, and once I hit the top, camera control issues resulted in me falling right back down.

    My only other real complaint is that the Homing Attack doesn't seem to home in on enemies very well. It takes the proximity of a target as more of a suggestion than anything else. If you could make the lock-on work a bit better, it would be more useful. As it is right now, it doesn't seem to have that little snapping feel the Sonic Adventure games have when you hit the Homing Attack button, you know? In the official games, Sonic would dart directly at an enemy and have a satisfying feel of impact, as well as a sudden snap back to the offensive the instant you hit the button to attack again while on the rebound from the previous attack. This game just doesn't seem to have that same feel, and the Homing Attack seems like more of a half-hearted nudge in the vague direction of the target.

    As it is, this is very fun to play and much more functional than any other BlitzSonic engine I've ever seen. If you can just make these slight tweaks to it, you've got something amazingly perfect on your hands.
     
  19. I wanted to point out, to those of you who haven't scrolled down and read the whole control set, that there are test shields using the keys 2-6 on the keyboard. You can jump and press the right-mouse button to activate that shield's special ability. Note that shield 2 is the normal shield which doesn't do anything but protect you from one hit!

    Another thing to notice are the cheat codes toward the bottom of the booth page, which do various things. They are the same codes that worked in older versions of BlitzSonic Freerunner, plus one new one called the Spider Sonic cheat which lets you walk on walls.

    Be sure to read the complete control set as there are numerous special controls, including the I key to change HUDs.

    Also, there is a WIP guide, written in html, included with the engine to get you started on how to modify the config files!

    Thanks for the suggestions. I like the S3K Adventure more than, umm, 'Sonic the Third'. lol

    Doing all the stages in Sonic 3 is going to be a lot of work, so will all the bosses and badniks. If I get far enough along that I feel I could manage to produce the Sonic and Knuckles stages, I would consider changing the name to S3K Adventure.

    Thanks for the review! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. I'm trying my best to refine it into an engine that can be used for a real game and that's just what I wanted to hear! :)

    The camera system is something I'm going to be working on soon. Things like scripted cameras and path following are somewhat complicated since I'm also trying my best to make it easy to edit, and to develop some sort of workflow to make it easy to incorporate into every level. I could quickly code a simple camera system to fix some issues, but it wouldn't be anywhere flexible enough. Once I figure out a decent way of coding a scripted camera in, I'll fit these special areas with cameras as soon as I build them. Also, you can test the path following with the F9 key. If you walk up to the rings at the bottom of the hollow tree, just press F9 and Sonic will follow them up the tree. It only works once, and Sonic can still fall if you touch the controls, but its a start to the kind of automated loops and gimmicks you see in SA/SA2.

    The homing attack seems to be the biggest complaint I'm hearing. I planned to have a homing attack that would weaken the more you use it, and recharge gradually. But from what I hear, people seem to dislike the way Sonic just darts into the general direction of the target. I will change this to a true homing attack soon because I think you and everyone else are right, in that it doesn't have the same impact as a real homing attack. The only thing left to decide on, is the rebound. I was thinking of having Sonic jump straight up as he does in SA2, rather than rebound like the classic games. Perhaps I should make an option to switch between both?
     
  20. Didn't intend on doing a review, I just wanted to say what I thought about it. Although, looking at it again, it actually is a full review. I have absolutely no idea how in the world that happened...

    Anyways, I had forgotten to mention it earlier, but I was curious if you were going to do any additional work on stuff like loops. I'm not saying to fully automate it, but if you could possibly have them lock Sonic onto the center of the path making up the loop, it would be much easier to run through it. The first time I hit a loop at high speed, I launched myself back the way I came because I didn't think I would have to actually steer Sonic through the loop.

    Also, on the classic BlitzSonic test level, is it possible to add an invisible flat surface to the bridges? (Also, why are they white?) Sonic treats the slight slopes and curves of the logs as actual slopes and curves, and it ruins any attempt to run across it.

    Finally, to answer your question about the Homing Attack, I think that giving the player the option would be best. I personally would prefer the SA2 method simply because it seems as though it would be easier to aim and direct successive attacks (and you know people making levels with the engine are going to make a Homing Attack chain path at some point). I'm not entirely certain how difficult it would be to chain attacks together with classic-style rebounds.