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Sonic 2's 2 player mode help

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Xylem Tube, Apr 7, 2010.

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  1. Xylem Tube

    Xylem Tube

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    I've been looking around and I haven't really found too much about the 2P mode in Sonic 2. maybe I'm not looking hard enough?


    here is some things I would like to know about.


    * What are the differences between single player and 2 player?

    * Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??

    * Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?

    * Why are both of the cameras look squished?

    * Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?

    * Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?

    * Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?

    * why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?

    * what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?

    * Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?



    And if there is something you think I forgot then tell me about that too plz.
     
  2. Bibin

    Bibin

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    I'll answer them:

    * What are the differences between single player and 2 player?
    Instead of progressing through levels, you just play a few acts, in a competition with the other player.

    * Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??
    In 2P, both players have equal abilities. In 1P, tails is just a tag-alone character for the second controller to use.

    * Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?
    This way both players can concentrate on their own goals.

    * Why are both of the cameras look squished?
    In order to fit a fully "rendered" scene into the screen, through interlacing two screens were effectively resized and placed one atop another.

    * Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?
    Some have bugs that the player 2 mode can't cope with, especially with water.

    * Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?
    I suppose they didn't want to make the boss happen for one player before the other arrived, nor use different memory locations for a second boss.

    * Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?
    Again, both players have equal abilities and opportunities.

    * why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?
    this is in case Player 2 goes away from playing, or tails got caught off screen for a while.

    * what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?
    the camera is totally automatic in 1P, as well as in 2P.

    * Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?
    In 1P mode the position swap wouldn't work... there is no other player to swap with.
     
  3. nineko

    nineko

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    ... is this a joke? However:

    * What are the differences between single player and 2 player?
    Single player is meant for one player, while 2 player is meant for two players, duh. You can challenge one of your friends (given that you have any), in one of three zones (Emerald Hill, Mystic Cave, Casino Night) or in the Special Stage. The one who goes faster / gets more ring / makes more point / etc is the winner.

    * Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??
    Because, as said above, the 2 player mode isn't collaborative, it's competitive. Single player, instead, is collaborative. A second player can join you in single player mode, yes, but he'd still be part of your "team".

    * Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?
    Because, as said above, Tails is being played by his own, and he's not teamed up with Sonic anymore.

    * Why are both of the cameras look squished?
    To fit two complete 320x224 independent screens in a single screen.

    * Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?
    There is a technical reason involving 8x8 and 8x16 tiles behind this. I highly doubt you would be able to understand the details, so the simple answer is: some levels just weren't designed for 2 player mode.

    * Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?
    The level data is the same, but there is no boss because, once again, the 2p mode isn't for regular gameplay, it's just when two players want to challenge eachother.

    * Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?
    Read above. If Tails dies 3 times, Sonic wins. If Sonic dies 3 times, Tails wins. And of course each of them can earn 1-ups individually.

    * why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?
    Because Tails is supposed to follow you in single player mode. If you're too fast, Tails have to reappear in some way. Note that it's not mandatory to play as Sonic + Tails in single player mode, since Tails can get annoying, especially in some bosses, and in the special stages, you can just play as Sonic alone or Tails alone.

    * what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?
    You already asked this question. The camera is positioned on the main character in each mode. When in single player mode, the main character is Sonic. When in 2 players mode, there are two independent screens, each of them centered on one of the characters.

    * Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?
    Because if you're challenging a friend, and he is almost arrived to the goal, you can swap your position with his one to get an advantage.

    edit: jacked by Bibin.
     
  4. Max Firestorm

    Max Firestorm

    Pyrodramatic Member
    My responses in bold.

    <!--quoteo(post=439090:date=Apr 7 2010, 09:56 PM:name=Xylem Tube)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xylem Tube @ Apr 7 2010, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439090">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been looking around and I haven't really found too much about the 2P mode in Sonic 2. maybe I'm not looking hard enough?


    here is some things I would like to know about.


    * What are the differences between single player and 2 player?
    Multiplayer race, no bosses, randomised items, added teleporter item, competitive Special Stage play
    * Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??
    Because it's a SINGLE player game. Anything collected by the AI in Single Player gets added to the totals of the SINGLE player
    * Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?
    Because the second player needs to see what they're doing?
    * Why are both of the cameras look squished?
    To fit both screens into the dimensions of the single one
    * Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?
    Pass
    * Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?
    Pass
    * Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?
    ...Don't you think that would be unfair to the person playing as Sonic?
    * why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?
    To have him keep up with Sonic
    * what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?
    Sonic's X/Y position dictates where the camera is, as far ass I know. That's added to Tails for his own camera in 2P
    * Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?
    There wouldn't really be much point in the Teleporter item in single player... You wouldn't exactly go very far
    And if there is something you think I forgot then tell me about that too plz.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    EDIT - GODDAMMIT YOU GUYS >.<
     
  5. nineko

    nineko

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    And you know what? I'm locking this. Back in the day this would have been a [010].
     
  6. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    Uh, no it wouldn't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this topic. Re-opened.
     
  7. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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    Since this is in the engineering forum, I would assume he was asking about the code, not the gameplay mechanics.
     
  8. Andlabs

    Andlabs

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    Writing my own MD/Genesis sound driver :D
    On that note, since this is in E&RE I assume he wanted answers from a technical viewpoint. I haven't done any Sonic 2 hacking myself, but I can answer one of these partway:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Chemical Plant and Aquatic Ruin would run extremely slowly because of the way water works. Water swaps the palette with an underwater palette every horizontal blank (every time a line is drawn). By using the H Interrupt to keep track of these lines, you can know when to change the palette. However, you don't have much time between H Interrupts and before a V Interrupt (end of drawing a frame), you need to use your time wisely. Four palette swaps per frame would slow down the game, not to mention that you have a bunch of other housekeeping to do.
     
  9. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    There are Game Genie/Action Replay codes to play other levels in 2P mode, and needless to say they aren't all that swift a transition (not positive but I think the level modifier on the wiki works on 2P selection). Lots of garbled graphics, certain objects don't load, etc. Also since special programming isn't made for the levels, the one player music is used and the bosses load in 2P mode as well as the prison capsules and 'Got Through Act 2' routines (it then instead loads the next level in one player). Water can't be loaded in split screen so the Aquatic Ruin, Chemical Plant and Hidden Palace load in one player unless you use a cheat to turn off water.

    I've heard claims that programming exists suggesting Hill Top was supposed to be a split screen level, but there isn't much else I know about it. The level is kinda fun in 2P however glitches make inpossible to finish (vital objects not appearing, lava occasionally not harmful, earthquakes only activating for Sonic meaning Tails gets trapped if he lags behind).

    Amusingly these codes work in some hacks like Long Version, meaning you can to some extent play Wood Zone, etc in split screen.
     
  10. ColinC10

    ColinC10

    Tech Member
    I'm going to go with doc eggfan on this and make the highly optimistic assumption that he was looking for specific technical details in response to his vague musings. Assuming the most recent Sonic 2 disassembly, with variables and subroutines in bold:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* What are the differences between single player and 2 player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Looking for sections of code accessed when Two_player_mode is equal to 1 is a sure-fire way to find most of the differences.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Check out the CollectRing_Tails and SolidObject_Monitor_Tails subroutines. They both contain separate branches for 2P mode, as mentioned above.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The top camera follows Sonic just like in 1P mode, except when Sonic is restarting after dying (Obj01_Respawning). In 2P there are a whole extra set of variables to control the bottom screen (Camera_X_pos_P2, etc).

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why are both of the cameras look squished?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The game is using double resolution interlaced mode, activated by this line in the level setup:
    Code (Text):
    1. move.w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;#$8C87,(a6)
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Making a level available in two player requires some work. The 16x16 blocks have to be made compatible with the double resolution mode mentioned above, or it looks like a garbled mess. The background scrolling routines have to be adjusted. Level objects and events need changes in order to handle two players. Water doesn't work because the graphical technique used to switch the palette clashes with the one used to draw split screen, and changing the coding to get round this would result in the issues that Andlabs describes. And some level design elements simply don't suit two players from a gameplay perspective, such as the earthquakes in Hill Top.

    It's my opinion that all of the above could theoretically be "fixed" to some extent, but that Sonic Team didn't want to divert resources away from the single-player game that was already on a tight deadline. By the way, E-122-Psi is referring to unused code that handles Hill Top's background scrolling in 2P mode (SwScrl_HTZ_2P), perhaps showing that an attempt was made to make the level a 2P one.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Bosses are loaded within the level event scripts (LevEvents_EHZ2, etc). This code is skipped in 2P mode.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The HurtCharacter routine controls this. In 1P mode, it skips past the parts that would cause Tails to lose rings or be killed.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    When Tails goes off screen, Tails_respawn_counter starts counting up from 0. If it reaches 300 frames, Tails' AI switches to "fly back to Sonic" mode.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The camera is controlled by DeformBgLayer. The logic is the same for 2P, just using different variables for the bottom screen as mentioned previously.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It is in 1P, you can get it in debug mode. It doesn't work properly because many of the 2P variables it tries to use will be set to 0 or other meaningless values.
     
  11. Xylem Tube

    Xylem Tube

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    <!--quoteo(post=439205:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:16 PM:name=ColinC10)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColinC10 @ Apr 7 2010, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439205">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to go with doc eggfan on this and make the highly optimistic assumption that he was looking for specific technical details in response to his vague musings. Assuming the most recent Sonic 2 disassembly, with variables and subroutines in bold:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* What are the differences between single player and 2 player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Looking for sections of code accessed when Two_player_mode is equal to 1 is a sure-fire way to find most of the differences.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is tails able to collect his own rings and power-ups is 2P but not Single player??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Check out the CollectRing_Tails and SolidObject_Monitor_Tails subroutines. They both contain separate branches for 2P mode, as mentioned above.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why do the cameras not always follow sonic like is one player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The top camera follows Sonic just like in 1P mode, except when Sonic is restarting after dying (Obj01_Respawning). In 2P there are a whole extra set of variables to control the bottom screen (Camera_X_pos_P2, etc).

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why are both of the cameras look squished?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The game is using double resolution interlaced mode, activated by this line in the level setup:
    Code (Text):
    1. move.w&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;#$8C87,(a6)
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Making a level available in two player requires some work. The 16x16 blocks have to be made compatible with the double resolution mode mentioned above, or it looks like a garbled mess. The background scrolling routines have to be adjusted. Level objects and events need changes in order to handle two players. Water doesn't work because the graphical technique used to switch the palette clashes with the one used to draw split screen, and changing the coding to get round this would result in the issues that Andlabs describes. And some level design elements simply don't suit two players from a gameplay perspective, such as the earthquakes in Hill Top.

    It's my opinion that all of the above could theoretically be "fixed" to some extent, but that Sonic Team didn't want to divert resources away from the single-player game that was already on a tight deadline. By the way, E-122-Psi is referring to unused code that handles Hill Top's background scrolling in 2P mode (SwScrl_HTZ_2P), perhaps showing that an attempt was made to make the level a 2P one.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is there no boss in 2p? Dose 2p and 1p both uses different versions of the level?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Bosses are loaded within the level event scripts (LevEvents_EHZ2, etc). This code is skipped in 2P mode.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why doesn't tails have infinite lives in 2p?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The HurtCharacter routine controls this. In 1P mode, it skips past the parts that would cause Tails to lose rings or be killed.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* why dose tails disappear and then fly back to sonic after he is off screen for too long in Single Player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    When Tails goes off screen, Tails_respawn_counter starts counting up from 0. If it reaches 300 frames, Tails' AI switches to "fly back to Sonic" mode.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* what controls the camera in either mode? Is 1p different from 2p here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The camera is controlled by DeformBgLayer. The logic is the same for 2P, just using different variables for the bottom screen as mentioned previously.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why is the position swap Power up present in 2p but not is 1p?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It is in 1P, you can get it in debug mode. It doesn't work properly because many of the 2P variables it tries to use will be set to 0 or other meaningless values.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    This is what I was hoping for

    thank you.
     
  12. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=439205:date=Apr 7 2010, 07:16 PM:name=ColinC10)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColinC10 @ Apr 7 2010, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439205">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* Why aren't all of the single player levels available in two player?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Making a level available in two player requires some work. The 16x16 blocks have to be made compatible with the double resolution mode mentioned above, or it looks like a garbled mess. The background scrolling routines have to be adjusted. Level objects and events need changes in order to handle two players. Water doesn't work because the graphical technique used to switch the palette clashes with the one used to draw split screen, and changing the coding to get round this would result in the issues that Andlabs describes. And some level design elements simply don't suit two players from a gameplay perspective, such as the earthquakes in Hill Top.

    It's my opinion that all of the above could theoretically be "fixed" to some extent, but that Sonic Team didn't want to divert resources away from the single-player game that was already on a tight deadline. By the way, E-122-Psi is referring to unused code that handles Hill Top's background scrolling in 2P mode (SwScrl_HTZ_2P), perhaps showing that an attempt was made to make the level a 2P one.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Interesting find. Might have been interesting to see how it played in refined 2P VS (I suppose the earthquakes would have just reseted for a player that was lagging behind if neither were close by, the only big undodgable problem in theory was that they only worked for Sonic, thus leaving Tails unable to progress unless he's nearby). Other than that Oil Ocean and Metropolis may have made for a clean transition in theory due to not having water and as many complex level obstacles and changes. Adding Chemical Plant with a Megamac-less Act Two wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

    A shame no further work was made however, I adore Sonic 2's VS mode. Have any projects been made that refine the split screen mode in any way?
     
  13. ColinC10

    ColinC10

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=439231:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:59 AM:name=Xylem Tube)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xylem Tube @ Apr 8 2010, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439231">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is what I was hoping for

    thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Glad to have helped. Let me know if you need any more details, although you might need to be a bit more specific next time as your questions were a little unclear, hence the slightly negative reaction!


    <!--quoteo(post=439273:date=Apr 8 2010, 03:00 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Apr 8 2010, 03:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439273">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting find. Might have been interesting to see how it played in refined 2P VS (I suppose the earthquakes would have just reseted for a player that was lagging behind if neither were close by, the only big undodgable problem in theory was that they only worked for Sonic, thus leaving Tails unable to progress unless he's nearby). Other than that Oil Ocean and Metropolis may have made for a clean transition in theory due to not having water and as many complex level obstacles and changes. Adding Chemical Plant with a Megamac-less Act Two wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

    A shame no further work was made however, I adore Sonic 2's VS mode. Have any projects been made that refine the split screen mode in any way?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The very first hack I ever worked on was to add Hill Top Zone as a 2P VS level. It was too ambitious for my complete lack of knowledge at the time so I didn't get very far, but I'd love to be able to give it another look at some point. As I mentioned in my above post, I'm not sure how earthquakes could be made to work in 2P, as one player is likely to get trapped outside if he is lagging behind, and if you remove them altogether that makes the top earthquake section in Act 2 impassable. This could have been what made Sega give up on it originally.
     
  14. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=439357:date=Apr 8 2010, 02:51 AM:name=ColinC10)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColinC10 @ Apr 8 2010, 02:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439357">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=439231:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:59 AM:name=Xylem Tube)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xylem Tube @ Apr 8 2010, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439231">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is what I was hoping for

    thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Glad to have helped. Let me know if you need any more details, although you might need to be a bit more specific next time as your questions were a little unclear, hence the slightly negative reaction!


    <!--quoteo(post=439273:date=Apr 8 2010, 03:00 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Apr 8 2010, 03:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439273">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting find. Might have been interesting to see how it played in refined 2P VS (I suppose the earthquakes would have just reseted for a player that was lagging behind if neither were close by, the only big undodgable problem in theory was that they only worked for Sonic, thus leaving Tails unable to progress unless he's nearby). Other than that Oil Ocean and Metropolis may have made for a clean transition in theory due to not having water and as many complex level obstacles and changes. Adding Chemical Plant with a Megamac-less Act Two wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

    A shame no further work was made however, I adore Sonic 2's VS mode. Have any projects been made that refine the split screen mode in any way?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The very first hack I ever worked on was to add Hill Top Zone as a 2P VS level. It was too ambitious for my complete lack of knowledge at the time so I didn't get very far, but I'd love to be able to give it another look at some point. As I mentioned in my above post, I'm not sure how earthquakes could be made to work in 2P, as one player is likely to get trapped outside if he is lagging behind, and if you remove them altogether that makes the top earthquake section in Act 2 impassable. This could have been what made Sega give up on it originally.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Is that particular section a one way area (ie. is it impossible to turn back and just go a different way at that point)? If not it may not be that big a problem. Similar if you kept the earthquake but for both players (if the player is REALLY far behind, or takes a bit of distance, the whole thing would reset for them anyway). It does seem a complex problem without modifying the levels however (eg. taking out the earthquakes and just putting springs). Oil Ocean and Metropolis might be easier to do (or Chemical Plant by taking out the water) however there's still the graphics problems.

    Alternate 2P VS idea, someone could try adding Knuckles as selectable in split screen, that was always a downside to the S2+K lock on.

    By the way if anyone wants to try out the levels in split screen as is, here's the codes:

    <a href="http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/spkelly/SGGen.html" target="_blank">http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/spkelly/SGGen.html</a>
     
  15. Bozo

    Bozo

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    <!--quoteo(post=439424:date=Apr 8 2010, 09:05 AM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Apr 8 2010, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439424">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alternate 2P VS idea, someone could try adding Knuckles as selectable in split screen, that was always a downside to the S2+K lock on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd love to see that as well. I've always wanted to have the option as playing as Knuckles in the S2 Multiplayer.

    Or like a Co-op mode where both players had to finish every level in split screen, basically making it two games happening at the same time. That would be pretty cool also. Although the water would need to be taken out.
     
  16. Sonic 2's 2P mode also uses I believe it was 8x16 tiles. Another reason why everything looks garbled if it's not a 2P zone.
     
  17. Hanoch

    Hanoch

    Also known as TheKnock, Birashot Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=439424:date=Apr 8 2010, 02:05 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Apr 8 2010, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439424">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alternate 2P VS idea, someone could try adding Knuckles as selectable in split screen, that was always a downside to the S2+K lock on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    S3K had knux in 2P VS but he wasn't able to glide or climb. I think that is also the reason there is no 2P VS in s2k, because the developers were to lazy to find a solution.
     
  18. Spanner

    Spanner

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    They were actually lazy regarding climbing and gliding, the sprites were made but they weren't used.
     
  19. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=439921:date=Apr 9 2010, 07:25 AM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Apr 9 2010, 07:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=439921">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They were actually lazy regarding climbing and gliding, the sprites were made but they weren't used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My guess is it was either lazy programming, rushed development or not wanting to spoil Knux's gameplay attributes when they revealed him in S+K (let's face it, most of us got the game just to play this new character with loads of moves).

    I'm not sure if that would be a problem with Sonic 2 vs as that basically uses the one player physics rather than being a minigame engine made from scratch. S2+K didn't have 2P vs as it wasn't actually in S+K's data, the lock on game actually ran mostly from S+K's RAM rather than any data from Sonic 2 (possibly VS mode, with a split screen engine and character not in S+K may have taken up too much room).
     
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