Sonic 2 Simon Wai Proto 20th Anniversary

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Traversal, May 6, 2018.

  1. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,384
    65
    28
    Sorry, it's next year:
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.fan.sonic-hedgehog/CeMZWlDEo34/FvncRRadNyEJ

    1998 is when Andre Dirk came forward with photos from his friend's copy and was trying to sell it and profit off of a dump being made. January 2nd 1999 was when Simon posted it to AFSH. Andre changed the subject of the thread and the OP is missing, but it's quoted in the top post on that page.
     
  2. Traversal

    Traversal

    Member
    31
    6
    8
    Hmph, '98's always been the year I've heard for the discovery, and that's all I've read online until now. But I mean it's super close so I can see how the error was made.
     
  3. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

    NotEqual Tech, Inc - VR & Game Dev Oldbie
    4,334
    77
    28
    I'd still count 98 as the year it was found because, as you said, thats when the existence of the prototype was made known to the community. When Andre Dirk came forward with info of the prototype, it was a huge deal. That was a huge milestone for the community.
     
  4. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    979
    224
    43
    That doesn't show the posting time of the original message by Simon. Some of the messages by him are quoted there, but not the ones from alt.binaries.emulators.sega, which is where he first posted the URL to the ROM.
     
  5. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,384
    65
    28
    Yes it does. As I said, it's quoted in the first reply.

    Code (Text):
    1.  
    2. On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 03:22:27 GMT, "S.W." <[email protected]> wrote:
    3. >No need to pay $150 or so, I posted it to alt.binaries.emulators.sega.
    4. >:)/> I think it might interest some people since it's free. I appologize
    5. >if I wasted your time. (Please, don't flame me)
    6.  
    For what it's worth, I trust the date is accurate, since I posted in that thread too.
     
  6. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    979
    224
    43
    That's not his alt.binaries.emulators.sega post.
     
  7. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,384
    65
    28
    It was posted on the same day. I don't see the point in arguing over it. The thread was about the "Simon Was" build, and that's the day he posted it. I don't dispute that Andre created his site in 1998 to post pictures from what was probably the same build. (But he claimed at the time that the build his friend had required the Up+Down+Left+Right level select code, whereas the copy we have a ROM for just needs A+Start portion of it, so there's that.)
     
  8. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    979
    224
    43
    Do we know that for certain that? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get to the truth.
     
  9. Sappharad

    Sappharad

    Oldbie
    1,384
    65
    28
    The wiki here at retro says 1999, and it hasn't been updated in over a month. (See release section)
    http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(Simon_Wai_prototype)

    Binary newsgroups are not archived, so I can't give you a source for his upload post. The wayback machine might have some more details if you check out AFSH posts from around that time and sites that were linked.
     
  10. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

    NotEqual Tech, Inc - VR & Game Dev Oldbie
    4,334
    77
    28
    I always thought the Up-Down-Left-Right portion was just a misunderstanding and once it was discovered you could just hit A+Start, it was confirmed his copy just needed A+Start as well?

    In any case, the user who has the cart that his friend had has an account here, we could just ask him to check.
     
  11. Mr Hooman

    Mr Hooman

    Member
    17
    0
    1
    Not Floral Fields Zone, I can tell you that.
    Not Sonic the Hedgehog - Neo Quest, I can tell you that.
    I know I'm running out of posts here but I still feel the need to acknowledge this.

    The Simon Wai proto is what gave me more interest in game secrets and development, and things we never knew existed in some games, it's also what lead me here many years ago.

    While the Simon Wai beta has been peeled apart, with many things have been found like the drills, forgotten badniks, Wood Zone, leftovers from Chiki Chiki Boys that somehow got left in there, (Seriously, was did the S2B ROM overwrite a CCB repro or something?) but it's still worth a play occasionally.

    But hands down my favourite thing from this beta is the music, as some themes in it I prefer over their final counterparts.

    I'm glad the betas were found, as they're great resources to have (Figure 1: Gator in a shameless self-promotion for my hack) for people to use in their hacks (Figure 2: Sonic 2 Delta) and I'm thankful for this community to allow easy access to these things.

    This prototype of an almost 26 year old game means a lot to me, cliche as it may sound, and I just want to thank the S2 Beta page and Retro for their documentation on it.

    That's all I have. Once again, thank you.

    -Mr Hooman

    Quick edit: Just fixing a thing. :|
     
  12. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Back on track Member
    847
    88
    28
    Bilbao, Spain
    Upgrading my own life to pro edition
    Funny thing: I downloaded Simon Wai's proto at the end of 1999 around the same time we were having contact with a hex editor at class (I had just started learning programming). I think I just messed up with hex code in the final version of Sonic 2, however. I still have the CD where I burned the proto after downloading it along with the rest of my rom collection.
     
  13. Neowl

    Neowl

    feels good man Member
    927
    33
    28
    London, England
    SAIL HATAN
    Was probably around mid-2000 when I first tried the Simon Wai proto. Was one of those curious things whilst searching for Sonic sites back in the day. Eventually I stumbled upon SSRG, Area 51, and the old SWS2B page.

    I remember trying my damnedest to try and get the sound to work on an old DOS MD emulator to see if there was any significant soundtrack changes between the Wai proto and final ROM. Good times...
     
  14. Unlike many of the people here I only found about the Simon wai beta (and sonic betas in general) around 2012-13 and from then iI wanted to know as much as I could about sonic 2's cut zones (like hidden palace, wood zone, cyber city and dust hill) and of course i was overjoyed when the sonic 2 remaster had a version of hidden palace in it!
     
  15. HP Zoner

    HP Zoner

    Member
    203
    2
    18
    127.0.0.1
    Crash Mania
    I got to the Internet a bit late, but I was very much the same. I found out about the prototype through a site called Secrets of Sonic Team back in 2004 (I believe it was created by a member here who goes by Rlan). It was one of my favorite sites to visit at the time because it showed a lot of unused content from a ton of different Sonic games.

    It was so fascinating to discover something "new" about a game I'd been playing for years. I read about all the discoveries, rumors, and theories back then, and I thought it was just the coolest thing ever. As my username suggests, it had a huge impact on me, and it made me want to research and write about unused content in other games (which I mainly do for Crash Bandicoot). To this day it's still one of my favorite Internet topics.
     
  16. Ashura2k

    Ashura2k

    Thants. Oldbie
    Jeez you're making me think REAL HARD. I think it must have been 2000 or 2001, I somehow found SSRG and SWS2B, downloaded the ROM and got it working using Genecyst. After that I was pretty much obsessed. Crazy to think I was only 11 or 12 at the time. After months of lurking I eventually I made it onto the ezBoard and started posting. That was pretty exciting times, seemed like new things were being discovered every week.

    Anyone know what Simon Wai is up to now? I wonder if he realizes what he's spawned
     
  17. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

    NotEqual Tech, Inc - VR & Game Dev Oldbie
    4,334
    77
    28
    He has already come back once before, right? Im sure he has some idea.
     
  18. NoNameAtAll

    NoNameAtAll

    MY HAT'S ON FIRE. HALP! Moderator
    542
    1
    18
    Ah yes, this prototype. I don't remember how exactly I originally stumbled upon it, but I do know it was in 2002 or 2003. I only lurked the message boards back then out of curiosity and only on and off. It really was an amazing thing since it had so many differences from the final game, yet it was still playable enough to actually explore in a casual sense.

    I'm likely wording it wrong, but seeing Hidden Palace for the first time was an experience. And then I botched it by learning the Game Genie code for the final game and seeing the Hidden Garbage. It was something else...heh.
     
  19. Hez

    Hez

    Asshole Oldbie
    3,178
    151
    43
    Hell
    Your mother
    Oh man I remember playing a really really shitty fan-remake of what HPZ could have been. We're talking The Games Factory (Like the first incarnation of it). Its layout was made of compiled magazine screenshots. The layout itself was actually pretty accurate to the real deal. Then while on a school computer during lab time, learning that the beta had been found, dumped, and released. I don't remember any other time being so excited.
     
  20. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

    NotEqual Tech, Inc - VR & Game Dev Oldbie
    4,334
    77
    28
    I talk about that same demo you are talking about all the time! It was really crazy how accurate it wound up being. I thought it was Klik n Play, though?