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Sonic 2 Retro Remix

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Thorn, May 30, 2008.

  1. Thorn

    Thorn

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    Sonic 2 Retro Remix
    Seeing as this is the first I'm seeing of this as well... I like it. The point where the tiles just under grass on the slope meets the vertical rectangles used everywhere is finally cleaned up, and it looks like Sonic won't appear to be standing on the tips of the blades of grass in many places anymore.

    A few concerns, though. With the old art style, we were able to get away with having grass right against the edge of a path without any special "edge" grass, and the level design already takes full advantage of this. This art doesn't look like we'll be allowed to "cheat" like that, so I'm hoping not to have to do a total revamp of the levels. Also, I see you're using the Intro Zone from the last beta for design... you do know that it's using different art data than the Cascade Valley acts, right? I couldn't find room for enough 16x16s to accommodate the S-tubes, the beach tiles, and the invisible solids used for a possible Super Sonic fly-in in one set, so it's split into two. I hope you don't have to make the art a second time for Cascade Valley. :s

    Other than that, though, I think the sexiest thing we could do for the art here would be to leech off somebody who understands how background layer deformation works and get the background to move relative to the portrayed distance behind the playfield.

    Also I'm not just telling you this over MSN because it's 1:30am and I don't feel like waiting for MSN to load and slow my computer down when I could just post this and then go to sleep quicker.
     
  2. Thorn

    Thorn

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    So I've had a video of progress since the last beta on YouTube for a while now, but it had been set to private because I hadn't got in touch with DNXDelta over whether or not he wanted the art shown. However, since the art is a combination of the last two pictures in this topic, I don't think anything "secret" is being revealed. I also want to get opinions underway for the sake of getting to polish it as much as possible before the hacking contest deadline.

    Here's what's been done to the first level since the last beta -- other levels are staying under wraps due to them being half-finished works. Since the last beta didn't actually make it outside Retro, there's a fair bit of old material shown and explained in the annotations.

    Usual comments/criticism expected and appreciated.
     
  3. Ice Sonic

    Ice Sonic

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    No, I am not working on any hack, fanart, or website.
    Things I like:
    Hub-world - Cool.
    Missions! - That's the best thing I have seen in a Sonic hack. I mean, they're like achievements. Just like them, the missions will keep the player in the game (or hack in this case) longer. Also, they are perfect for those gigantic, one of a kind fun levels!
    New moves! - Not just wall kick but other moves I see for the first time! To my tinny little knowledge, no Sonic hack has implemented moves from Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush.
    Signs with arrows that tell you where to go - Nice little touch
    The patheticmobile, now with turbo! - Awesome
    Sonic has got a watch! - Again, really nice touch. It's not just one pose but 3!
    Hidden levels - Even more gameplay!
    Fun! - Best thing about this hack. By looking at it I have this big urge to play it. Now that's the mark of a great hack!

    Thing I didn't like:
    Music - Not that bad, but I expected a little bit more, sorry.
    Wall Kick pose - The pose where Sonic is on the wall is kinda weird to me.

    Questions:
    What use will the emeralds have?
    2 songs in 1 act?

    We can all clearly see that there has been a lot of work and creativity put in this hack. The art is great, the design of the level is incredible and I like how you give this hack a little Ristar feel.
     
  4. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    This is...unbelievably awesome!

    1 thing that would be cool is to find hidden bonus levels in hubs that are completely different from the surroundings (maybe some kinda of indication of a different environment could be near the entrance.)

    Also did you get rid of that "intro" area before the first hub?
     
  5. Thorn

    Thorn

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    ...huh? You mean, a watch like a wristwatch? Am I missing something?

    I'm not quite sure what you expected with the music, really. With the exception of Seascape, all of those songs are custom-made -- Tweaker did the songs for Act 1 and the hidden level in their entirety, and I wrote out the song for Act 2 in hex and Tweaker voiced it.

    The Wall Kick sprite is from Crackers, just with an extra arm placed on (taken from Mighty's identical sprite, of course). If you compare the sprites from Sonic 2 to the sprites in the picture there, you'll see that most of them are perfectly in proportion, just with a different palette. Therefore, I assumed that placing the Sonic 2 palette on the Crackers wall kick sprite would be the best way to go about it, but if you have any better ideas, do tell... I'd asked DNXDelta about the possibility of a custom sprite before I remembered that there was an official one, but that doesn't mean a custom sprite can't still be done if people think the official one is ugly.

    As said in the annotation for the first mission list, emeralds unlock new hubs. As with Super Mario 64 and its sequels, just a few emeralds will unlock many levels early on, but the ratio of collected emeralds to available ones will get stricter as the game progresses. A lot of people have commented that they don't care for the scavenger hunts -- if that's the case, do time and score attack missions instead, and you're likely to just stumble onto emeralds and monitors as you do the latter.

    For your second question: Yes.

    It might come back, but there's no guarantee. That level is just the first level of my last hack with DNXDelta's artwork on top of it -- you could always get said hack and play the same level, just with broken physics and horrible music. Chemical Plant Zone in Retro Remix is from my last hack, too, but that's because I was able to rearrange how all of the routes connect to each other and cross to make the level seem fresh.
     
  6. neonsynth

    neonsynth

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    Jesus Christ yes! This is something awesome! I like all the new stuff, too.
    It gives the player time to play trough the hack with something to do, except runing with full-speed trough the whole game and finishing it. And I think it's nice to have secret areas thereā€”it gives you more to explore the levels.

    Will be easter eggs built in?
    Also .srm save/continue option? =P

    EDIT: Is the watch waterproof? :V

    EDIT2: Wait, Ice Sonic lied.
     
  7. Thorn

    Thorn

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    I'm working on an easter egg or two, actually -- we'll see if I can get them into the final game. Maybe DNXDelta has some ideas for easter eggs or random sillyness as well; I've never thought to ask, actually.

    No SRAM at the moment, partly because I'm unfamiliar with implementing and accessing it, and partly because if the mission or level order changes in the final product, old SRAM would be useless anyway. Savestates ftw!
     
  8. Looks awesome!

    When Sonic fell through that passage and the music changed, my jaw dropped.
     
  9. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    Now this is a hack that looks appealing! I like what I see so far. You have a lot of very creative ideas going on here. I like most things about this hack. Let me just touch on a few areas I think you should consider changing:

    - the new moves, while a neat idea, seem a bit tacky to me (like that extra thrust thing)
    - the wall kick is probably fine, but Sonic's pose looks awkward
    - the waterfalls in act 2 are fine, but I think you should have more going on than just water in the entire background
    - the act complete music just doesn't fit in a Sonic game in my opinion.

    However, pretty much everything else I think is awesome. I like the missions, the use of a variety of colors in each act, the new art, the music selections (except that one I mentioned), and basically the whole concept. Keep up the awesome work!

    Eww, savestates! I think you could pull off the SRAM deal. I have used it before, it's not too difficult. The main thing is setting up the header of the ROM. The other issue is some emulators don't support SRAM properly. That said, it's well worth it I believe, even at this point. If the level order changes, you could use an array of pointers to make the level in the SRAM point to the correct level in the ROM.
     
  10. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    and now I wonder why Thorn isn't a tech member (...yet)
     
  11. Emerald Spirit

    Emerald Spirit

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    Holy CRAP. This is really impressive. It almost seems like a 2D Adventure. Can't wait to see more of this!
     
  12. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    Holy shit this looks impressive.. I like, and I want. Now. :P

    SRAM isn't really hard. If you want a heads up on it, on Thursday/Friday when I'm back in England I'll send you the info. It's very easy stuff.

    I want in on this project. c.c *hit*
     
  13. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Very nice stuff. I especially like the subtle boss tweak (much more RUN THE HEDGEHOG OVER like =P) and the achievements system that I recognise from that mappings tool that was released a while back. Good stuff here.
     
  14. Telstar

    Telstar

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    Wow, awesome! Keep it up! Also,

    Looking at that picture, the 26th sprite (with some necessary tweaking) seems like a better candidate than what you have already, official or not.
    Unless you created a secret hack and sent it out to everyone on Retro but me and you're referring to that instead of Turbo, I'd kill you, but you made it.

    Anyways, fantastic work. I think I'll refer to you two as "God 1" and "God 2" from now on. Listen to me, attempting to sound official...
     
  15. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

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    I really love what you're doing here, but maybe if you edited this sprite from Crackers [​IMG] as the wall jump, it would fit a little smoother.
     
  16. Flare

    Flare

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    Its strange but I like that wall jump sprite that you are using. I think its the big eyes that draw me in haha. But yeah great work definitely looks amazing so far.
     
  17. Telstar

    Telstar

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    Isn't that what I said? :argh:
     
  18. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

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    Apparently so, sorry. =P
    but yeah, change the top foot so it's against the wall and it should be good times. I might even try to draw it for you.
     
  19. Roybertito

    Roybertito

    Still alive, apparently. Member
    Wow, this looks absolutely incredible. Playing the beta, it feels faster than any 2D Sonic, but in a very good way, and the new version looks to capitalize on that speed and add a bit of extra challenge. I like the idea of having tons of different passages and missions, sort of adds a choose-your-own-adventure aspect to the game.

    Keep up the awesome work, I'll be following this.
     
  20. Thorn

    Thorn

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    By the way, DNXDelta got in touch with me last night and mentioned that his PC is possibly fubar'd, so until he's got everything under control, I'll be forging ahead with level designs.

    For all of you who're pointing at the sprite directly under the wall kick sprite on the Mighty/Sonic comparison sprite sheet (the skidding sprite) as a possible replacement for the wall kick sprite: you all apparently have better art skills than I do. While the angle Sonic's facing definitely makes sense, there's way too much there to edit for me to have any shot at drawing it correctly. Sonic's raised leg and foot has to be moved to the "wall", everything behind the foot's current position has to be custom-drawn, the other foot has to be rotated somehwere between 30 and 45 degrees to look like it's flat against a wall, the fist against the wall needs to open into a palm on the wall, and the arm holding the ring has to be moved to a more natural position (there's no reason to hold it out like that for a wall kick). That's way too much for me to do without drawing something out of proportion or with improper shading.

    Somebody teach me to be an artist, dammit, because I sure as hell can see what I need to do... I just can't do it. >_>