Sonic 2 Retro Remix

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Thorn, May 30, 2008.

  1. Willie

    Willie

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    <!--quoteo(post=485478:date=Jul 31 2010, 12:39 AM:name=SonicVaan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SonicVaan @ Jul 31 2010, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485478"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found a bug in Metropolis. You.. eh, can't finish the act—thus not the game either. I got to the signpost, but it is glitched up and it shows me graphics used from spikes and Slicer. And when I pass it, nothing happens.
    My time was at 9:59 if you want to know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1376/wtfsonic2retroremix.png" target="_blank">[LINK]</a>

    This happened to me too. :/
     
  2. DNXDelta

    DNXDelta

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    Um... well that's not really an object at all. It's part of the layouts with just an invisible solid object. But the idea of that sort of shield seems interesting. But using it to break through objects is a bit far-fetched unless we have missions or pathways that require that sort of power-up. But, that's something Thorn will have to consider as well; not just me.
     
  3. NeonSynth

    NeonSynth

    Previously 'SonicVaan' Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=485482:date=Jul 31 2010, 10:07 AM:name=W.A.C.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (W.A.C. @ Jul 31 2010, 10:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485482"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=485478:date=Jul 31 2010, 12:39 AM:name=SonicVaan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SonicVaan @ Jul 31 2010, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485478"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found a bug in Metropolis. You.. eh, can't finish the act—thus not the game either. I got to the signpost, but it is glitched up and it shows me graphics used from spikes and Slicer. And when I pass it, nothing happens.
    My time was at 9:59 if you want to know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1376/wtfsonic2retroremix.png" target="_blank">[LINK]</a>

    This happened to me too. :/
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah, I tried to get 9:59 in Cascade Valley Act 1, too. And the signpost didn't work either! :v:
    So actually the time occurs the bug.
     
  4. steveswede

    steveswede

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    <!--quoteo(post=485484:date=Jul 31 2010, 09:17 AM:name=DNXDelta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNXDelta @ Jul 31 2010, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485484"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Um... well that's not really an object at all. It's part of the layouts with just an invisible solid object.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know that's an transparent solid object. :) It was just an area to put an idea into what you have done already. A breakable wall could be made to look like transparent wall. Bit like how some rocks in Sonic 3 can only be broken by Knuckles.

    <!--quoteo(post=485484:date=Jul 31 2010, 09:17 AM:name=DNXDelta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DNXDelta @ Jul 31 2010, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485484"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But using it to break through objects is a bit far-fetched unless we have missions or pathways that require that sort of power-up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is what I was thinking that you could use this sort of power up for missions.


    Anyway I look forward to it if you and Thorn do decide to do something with the shield.
     
  5. Willie

    Willie

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    Just beat the rom hack. This is probably my favorite rom hack ever. While I originally hated the emerald system, that's because I thought I needed 13 emeralds to get to the second zone. >_> Because you only need 18 to beat the game, I have no problem with the emerald system and actually like it. I originally got 8 emeralds in the first zone when I thought I needed 13 to access the second zone. <_< After playing all the zones except the last two, I had 17 emeralds so I only needed to replay one level to access the final two zones. This is an awesome rom hack and I'll look forward to future releases.
     
  6. qiuu

    qiuu

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    <!--quoteo(post=485436:date=Jul 31 2010, 06:48 AM:name=Thorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thorn @ Jul 31 2010, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485436"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never did find out how to fix that. >_> I tried "check first byte of underwater palette; if wrong, load again", but that doesn't cut it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is caused by the BuildSprites routine writing beyond the boundaries of the Sprite_Table section in RAM. Original S2 has some unused RAM there, but for you it's crucial because you relocated the underwater palette into this RAM section.
    More precisely, BuildSprites only checks after each object whether the sprite limit has been reached, but as the mapping of a single object can consist of multiple sprites, it can have already written into the next RAM area before it is detected.
    To fix this, it should be sufficient (I didn't test though) to put a check like below also at the end of each DrawSprite_Loop (also for the x-flip, y-flip and xy-flip version of them), I.e. directly before the conditional jump on d1.
    <!--g1--><div class='geshitop'>Syntax Highlighted Code: ASM</div><div class='codemain'><!--eg1--><pre class="asm" style="font-family:monospace;"> <span style="color: #00bfff;">cmpi</span>.<span style="color: #00bfff;">b</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">#</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">80</span>,<span style="font-weight:bold;">d5</span>
    bhs.<span style="color: #00bfff;">s</span> DrawSprite_Done</pre><!--gc2--><!--CWNtcGkuYgkjODAsZDUKCWJocy5zCURyYXdTcHJpdGVfRG9uZQ==--><!--egc2--><!--g2--></div><!--eg2-->

    Another bug I noticed once, but couldn't reproduce, the end of special stage screen displayed some faulty mappings at the right. Though I guess that screen is somewhat preliminary, and not that prevalent anyway.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hm. Last release, a lot of people thought that was cool. I'm not sure what to do now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Cave under the falls having its own vibe through the music is cool. :)

    Will be sad once the FPZ music is replaced. Already preferred the end-of-act and mission screen music that got replaced. :\ No need to stick to Sonic music for the sake of it imho.
     
  7. NeonSynth

    NeonSynth

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    <!--quoteo(post=485522:date=Jul 31 2010, 04:14 PM:name=qiuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (qiuu @ Jul 31 2010, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485522"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=485436:date=Jul 31 2010, 06:48 AM:name=Thorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thorn @ Jul 31 2010, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485436"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hm. Last release, a lot of people thought that was cool. I'm not sure what to do now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Cave under the falls having its own vibe through the music is cool. :)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Seconded. Beside that the music fits, it'll also let you know that you've found something hidden/entered a hidden path. Moar hidden stuff and easter eggs please. :3
     
  8. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

    & Knuckles Member
    So, to second the statements of most people here (And to save myself from writing a huge essay type box of text), I enjoyed it. The changes done from last time are obvious and the challenges are, to me, an incentive to take all of the paths in the levels which requires several playthroughs, which is always a good thing. I like the direction FPZ's art has gone in, as well as the long and expansive level layouts and look forward to what else is in store in the future.

    That being said, the emerald doors weren't acting normal during my playthrough.
    I had 12 emeralds, but the 13 emerald door has disappeared, leaving only the counter...
    <img src="http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/6/13/1957633/S2RR-DoorGlitch.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    I don't think this is supposed to happen.
     
  9. Jay T.

    Jay T.

    It takes an idiot to do cool things... Member
    So far, I must admit, the game is really impressive. I'm not that good, so I don't think I could get that many Chaos Emeralds, but I got a decent amount so far. I have ran into a few bugs, however...

    One was in FPZ. I think it was Act 2. It happened twice, but when I collected a Chaos Emerald from <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>the secret cave</span> and after beating Dr. Robotnik, the last part of the sound (of getting an Emerald) pretty much went on and made an annoying beep. It'll stop if you pause/unpause or get the music to change.

    Another in FPZ...unfortunately, I cannot remember how it happened and I can't do it again, but there appears to be a tile problem or something. Somewhere around here (where Sonic is specifically), caused me to go through the wall and fall down where that large ledge and spikes are. I think I jumped above where Sonic is and it happened. Here's a picture of what I mean.
    <img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/492/sonic2retroremixsage201.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Lastly, on Metropolis Zone Act 1, I did an Homing Attack on this enemy, and the entire game froze up.
    <img src="http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/492/sonic2retroremixsage201.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Oh, one question, I gotta ask. In that month old video of this game you posted ( <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F95km-e-P_Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F95km-e-P_Q</a> ), just curious, but what song is playing in Casino Night Zone? I dunno why, but it's kind of catchy.
     
  10. shobiz

    shobiz

    Tech Member
    This hack is just so much goddamn <b>fun</b> it's amazing.
     
  11. Thorn

    Thorn

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    So hey, you people who have finished the game (or you people that just don't give a shit about spoilers) should check out this speedrun I just did. The entire game fits into YouTube's video time limit, and that's with a minute lost due to a last-minute death.

    <div align='center'><!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/su34RgJXSn4&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/su34RgJXSn4&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2--></div>
     
  12. Selbi

    Selbi

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    8:52, so much win. Also, did you added a feature so you get an emerald when you complete an act? That makes the entire thing more interesting. =)
     
  13. Thorn

    Thorn

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    ^ No, that's the released version. I'm beating time attack and score attack missions as part of the playthrough, and that's why you're hearing emerald jingles at the end of levels. Again, you get an emerald for beating a boss, so just under half of the acts already have this feature people keep asking for.
     
  14. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Fantastic speedrun Thorn. You are truly an amazing player. I suppose you have to be to do levels that require a level of skill. Also thanks for showing how to get that emerald way, way up high. I've been trying to get that sucker for ages. Also there's another way of getting that emerald from that tricky double monitor bounce. If you spindash off from the right platform on to the closest monitor. You are able to reach it by just doing that.
     
  15. Kilometers Prower

    Kilometers Prower

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    Hey, just finished the game (like, legitimately, all 70 emeralds without watching that runthrough), and I just have to say that this hack was FANTASTIC. Probably my favorite hack I've played on this site, and enough to make me actually post about it. :P

    Granted, I can see why many people have issues with the emerald barriers stopping progress to other levels, but I understand exactly what you're going for - games like Mario 64 and are fun, addicting, and full of replay value. The biggest issue I think with translating Sonic to that genre is the difficulty of this game in its current state. Obviously I liked it (fuck, I liked it enough to get all 70 emeralds), but some of the missions just took forever, or were a little too vague. I definitely agree that there should be some sort of counter for the emerald monitors. And, I'm just gonna throw this one out there - maybe some sort of "emerald sensing" radar would be useful, like Knuckles in the Adventure games. Maybe as some sort of easy difficulty setting? Personally, I loved the difficulty of the game, but I can understand why others are having a hard time.

    Gotta ask, though - what's up with Metropolis? Will it stay split in two, and will you eventually be able to travel between the two levels? That part of the game was actually a bit jarring to me. I wasn't sure if it was one level, and I wasted a lot of time looking for missions that weren't even there.

    And, for the perfect game: <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Are you planning on having Super Sonic's rings deplete, or will it stay as is? I'm not sure if you'll be adding special stages or not... </span>

    Again, awesome job!
     
  16. Willie

    Willie

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    Since Tails isn't playable in the game, maybe the title screen should be modified in future releases. >_>
     
  17. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

    I'm a member of S.T.A.R.S !!11!!!1!! Member
    Curiously enough, Tails is in the act end signpost too, redrawn like Sonic...
     
  18. Thorn

    Thorn

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    <!--quoteo(post=485726:date=Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM:name=Kilometers Prower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kilometers Prower @ Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485726"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And, I'm just gonna throw this one out there - maybe some sort of "emerald sensing" radar would be useful, like Knuckles in the Adventure games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <div align='center'><img src="http://info.sonicretro.org/images/6/66/S1spoof.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
    Sonic: The One Ring already did this. That said, I already have plans to use this for the "perfect" game reward next time by opening up the Sonic equivalent of Galaxy 2's Green Stars, where you won't get mission descriptions but can hear the emeralds.

    <!--quoteo(post=485726:date=Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM:name=Kilometers Prower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kilometers Prower @ Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485726"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta ask, though - what's up with Metropolis? Will it stay split in two, and will you eventually be able to travel between the two levels? That part of the game was actually a bit jarring to me. I wasn't sure if it was one level, and I wasted a lot of time looking for missions that weren't even there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's staying split. In true Metropolis/Eggmanland style, this one act will be really fucking long in time, and the way the game handles objects vertically means that using one act and reloading things when needed would be an utter mess. I actually look forward to hearing profanity dropped in this topic for this reason. I'll probably mix it up with gimmick areas, though, such as a tube maze with directional hints or on-screen questions that require you to enter a tube labeled with the correct answer.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, the fact that the timer keeps on ticking and your score and rings carry over between parts of the level was a bit of a giveaway as to what's going on too.

    <!--quoteo(post=485726:date=Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM:name=Kilometers Prower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kilometers Prower @ Aug 1 2010, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485726"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And, for the perfect game: <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Are you planning on having Super Sonic's rings deplete, or will it stay as is? I'm not sure if you'll be adding special stages or not... </span><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Well, since I had to consciously stop the rings from depleting, that's how it will stay. The game's over at that point, so I'm leaving that as a reward.</span>
     
  19. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=485946:date=Aug 2 2010, 01:04 AM:name=Thorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thorn @ Aug 2 2010, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=485946"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's staying split. In true Metropolis/Eggmanland style, this one act will be really fucking long in time, and the way the game handles objects vertically means that using one act and reloading things when needed would be an utter mess. I actually look forward to hearing profanity dropped in this topic for this reason. I'll probably mix it up with gimmick areas, though, such as a tube maze with directional hints or on-screen questions that require you to enter a tube labeled with the correct answer.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, the fact that the timer keeps on ticking and your score and rings carry over between parts of the level was a bit of a giveaway as to what's going on too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Perhaps if you didn't display the title card for the second "act", it'd make it a lot clearer. Just fade it in and out of black again.
     
  20. dsrb

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    I'm "nooo goood" at this, but I like it and can see myself getting addicted.

    I updated <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic 2 Retro Remix" target="_blank" style="background: url(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/5/50/Reticon.png) right no-repeat; padding-right: 20px; border-bottom: 1px dotted #3366BB; color: #3366BB; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:none;" class="wiki">Sonic 2 Retro Remix</a> with the latest ROM and screenshot, but someone else will have to update other stuff like the Emerald list.