don't click here

Sonic 2 Recreation - Part One

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by redhotsonic, Mar 28, 2012.

Should I bother to update Sonic 2 Recreation?

  1. Yes, any update would be nice!

  2. No, I'm only interested in seeing part 2

  3. No, not at all

    0 vote(s)
  1. Mike Arcade

    Mike Arcade

    Free Scriber of Mobius Member
    Well this year's hacking contest has already got me excited, and then you throw this at me!

    So glad to see you are still doing this redhot, though I do have a question, will part two "lock-on" like S3&K or will it be a separate rom following whatever parts and/or the full game after that? Also really happy you are adding in Mighty in the future, can't wait!!!
  2. RetroKoH


    Project Sonic 8x16
    While brainstorming for my fangame... I thought of something... When you ultimately implement Mighty (assuming you will further down the road, since he isn't implemented for the Hacking Contest build)
    Why not give him a Throw ability? To be able to pick up and throw shit like Spikes, or rocks, and stuff... would be pretty neat.

    It would also tie into his Chaotix background, as you could pick up other characters in the game... only this time, Mighty can pick up objects. It also ties into his supposed "strength" that he's supposed to have.
  3. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom

    Well, guys! You've been patiently waiting, and now, the wait is finally over! Introducing Sonic 2 Recreation - Part One. I am happy to be finally releasing this to the public. I've wanted to do this for ages, but I wanted to get a full-game release. But due to life and other reasons, it's just not possible without even more delay. So it is going to be released in two parts, starting with part one.


    Most of you already know the main features from the list in previous posts (spoiled again in case you've missed it).

    The High Points
    • S3K-RM Object Manager. S3K Object manager with more oomph. The RM stands for redhotsonic and Module. It features the same as S3K but with y-deletion. Module kindly help me port the original manager in, then I added extra checks for the y-deletion and Module fixing a bug, then me fixing another, and now it's perfect. Now, if you move vertically away from an object, it will delete itself; freeing more processing time!
    • S3K Touch Response (Thanks, Module)
    • S3K Priority manager
    • S3K Rings manager, improved! (original guide by shobiz, improved and optimised by me)
    • NEW Random Cheat Code Generator
    • S3K ObjectMove(andFall) routines
    • Improved layer deformation code
    • A huge improvement to the S2clonedriver, and optimised greatly, for details, read on (by ValleyBell)
    • S3K's Render_sprites instead of S2's Build_sprites (thank for the assistance, flamewing).
    • S3K's mappings instead of Sonic 2's mappings*
    • Many, many many optimisations here and there (too many to list).
    • Extra security to the game, so you can't cheat your way through (RAM changes, code changes, conversion, etc.).
    • Underwater mode. When the main character goes underwater, the sound driver changes its properties to make the music and SFX/DAC's sound like you're underwater (ValleyBell).
    • New SEGA screen.
    • SSRG screen, slightly edited for S2R
    • SonicRetro screen, edited for S2R
    • Improved fading on the colours (guided by MarkeyJester)
    • Improved fading on the music. Music/PSGs/FMs/DACs are now more balanced when fading in and out. Also, can change the speed of the fade in/out to really fast to really slow(ValleyBell)
    • SFXs are no longer affected by the fading in/out of music
    • SFXs are no longer affected by the 1-up jingle
    • NTSC initially, but compatible with PAL. Music will be the same speed in PAL mode as it was in NTSC mode. Timer is still synced with the game in either mode.
    • Main level music will NOT restart after invincibility music or drowning music, instead, it will resume from where it left off (ValleyBell)
    • Brand new special stages
    • And lots more

    The game
    • Characters are Sonic and Tails, Sonic alone, Tails alone, Knuckles alone, Knuckles and Tails, Sonic and Knuckles, redhotsonic. Mighty will not be in Part 1.
    • Sonic can air-dash (press jump in mid-air). He can also burst (run fast for a long time and he will enter burst mode). He will automatically go into burst mode in certain conditions (speed shoes, booster, etc.).
    • Tails can fly, and carry other characters. Also, unlike most games, when Tails is flying, pressing the B button will stop him flying and make him drop. Perfect if you want to get to the ground quickly.
    • Tails will now spawn if Sonic is in the water, like S3K. If underwater, Tails will swim, and not fly.
    • If you have Knuckles as a sidekick, he will drop next to you as he spawns, whether you're in water or not.
    • Knuckles can glide and climb as usual (not as a sidekick...yet...)
    • redhotsonic has no special abilities. But there may be a lava level in the future, where RHS will be invulnerable to it (not in Part 1).
    • Portal is your home. Here you can enter options to change character or the sound test. Portal is also responsible for getting you to new levels. Logo 1 is first, and then goes in numeric order. After you've completed logo 4, all logos become available. It also shows how many emeralds you've collected, and how many levels you've done. But, what's that warp doing there?
    • You can enter the Master cheat code yourself, good luck getting it. Or, you can enter your very own cheat code, more on that in a moment...
    • So far, there are 4 completed levels; West Bay Zone, Great Gate Zone, Gem Runway Zone and Chaos Angel Zone.
    • Each level contains two main acts, and a boss act. Gem Runway contains the brand new boss. Chaos Angel has 3 main acts but no boss as yet.
    • Each main level and act will have a "B" logo right at the start. This will take you back to Portal. This means you can go back to Portal at any time.
    • Any original Sonic 2 boss you come across will have a pinch mode, so all bosses will be different in some way. Music will slightly alter and the Eggman counter's text will go red to indicate pinch mode.
    • From level select, you can take a peek of what may appear in the future. Please be aware that any of these level can contain bugs and is more than likely not complete-able (and probably contains S2 mappings so things will appear glitched).
    • 2player no longer exists. All code has been taken out. This includes all checks, which can help improve the speed of the game (barely)

    What's new from Sonic 2?
    • New level art and designs. Nothing from the old Sonic 2!
    • Multiple routes in many levels.
    • At the end of most levels (some have new transitions instead), instead of the characters running off the screen, they do their celebrations, like Sonic 3. The camera also moves up near the end so you have a better view of the background.
    • Some levels start differently than just the characters standing there. More to come
    • Gem Runway Act 2 has a different route for Knuckles. More Knuckles-only routes to come
    • New badniks here and there (as well as old ones)
    • Brand new boss, Gem Runway Zone.
    • 2 original bosses, they act the same for the first 8 hits but then Eggman enters pinch mode (music change) and things will get tougher!
    • Boss explosions now move a little bit rather than staying still. This looks better in my opinion. EHZ boss blows up differently too!
    • When boss explodes, nuts and bolts fly everywhere too, similar to Sonic Advance series.
    • Eggman occasionally shouts "Ow", "You little..." and "You're going to pay for this!" Changes and additions to come after Part 1
    • A smooth boss counter
    • Centi-seconds that hits every digit
    • New HUD
    • New music!
    • Underwater ripples
    • Monitor icons on HUD. Similar to how Knuckles Chaotix works. When you get a certain monitor, it will be displayed on the HUD. But, it won't have its certain location like Chaotix. It will move up and down on the HUD. It will flash when you're running out (like speed-boots or invincibility), or flash when hurt (shield).
    • Random Monitor. Works the same way as it does in Sonic 2's 2 player, except it flashes different images very quickly. And it only gives you certain monitors (like no teleport or no Tails 1-up).
    • New standing animations for Sonic and Knuckles before their waiting animation.
    • New title screen. Colour of the background changes colour to represent as the main characters current selection
    • New title cards.
    • New layer scrolls. With almost-instant background changes.
    • New restart routine. Instead of the title cards loading again, when you die, the camera will scroll back to the beginning or last checkpoint and will start from there (except for Chaos Angel Act 3, Eggman-earthquake during Great Gate act 2, and when you've drowned).
    • Lots of old bugs, gone!
    • A few cut-scenes, explosive passages, underwater movements and challenges, earthquakes, etc.
    • A few transitions from one level to another

    What to expect in the future in S2R
    • More new levels
    • More Brand new bosses (I have a couple of designs ready to start).
    • New badniks
    • Time-attack mode. Show us your fastest times in S2R.
    • More cut-scenes!
    • More thrills that other Sonic hacks can't bring to you.
    • A proper story line, as there isn't one at the moment.

    Although, two features have been taken from what I said was going to be:

    • S2TA's SRAM manager. To be honest, when I started porting this, it was too advanced for S2R's needs. S2TA has lots of data to hold, whereas S2R, nowhere near as much. So instead, I've given S2R its own SRAM manager and encryption. It's nowhere near as good as S2TA, but it'll do.
    • Time Over Option. This was in options, but made way for "Underwater-Mode" for sound test. I was desperately running out of time and thought this was more important to add. Who these days can't do a level under 10 minutes anyway?

    Anyway, onto the basics and some important gameplay features. If you cannot be arsed to read and just want to download and play, just scroll to the near-bottom of this post.

    Logos and warps


    Portal is your home. This is where you can enter levels, or options to make character selections or listen to the Sound test.

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]
    In Portal, you'll see some logos numbered 1 - 4. 1 takes you to level 1, and so on. You must do it in order, and cannot go back to previous levels. Once you've finished level/logo 4, you can then enter any level/logo afterwards. I wonder what that warp does once you've done all 4 levels and have all emeralds?

    Also in Portal, to the left, is an "Options" logo. This will take you to the options screen where you can change character, or listen to some music/SFX's with underwater-mode on or off.

    In each level/act, there is another logo at the beginning; the "B" logo. This simply takes you back to Portal, for if you want to make any changes.

    Playable characters and their abilities

    There are 7 selections altogether:

    [​IMG] - Sonic and Tails

    [​IMG] - Sonic Alone

    [​IMG] - Tails Alone

    [​IMG] - Knuckles Alone

    [​IMG] - Knuckles and Tails

    [​IMG] - Sonic and Knuckles

    [​IMG] - redhotsonic

    Sonic can air dash. Jump and press the jump button again in mid-air to do an air dash. This can help you gain great speeds, but at a cost; you will be vulnerable whilst air-dashing. Sonic can also burst. If you're running with Sonic at a great speed for a long time, he will suddenly burst, and gain tremendous speed!

    Tails, the usual. He can fly, carry characters and swim. Whilst flying/swimming, press B, and he will cancel his flying/swimming and fall to the ground. Knuckles, the usual, he can glide and climb. redhotsonic has no abilities as yet, at the moment, he's more of a cameo.

    Levels and Bosses

    [​IMG] - [​IMG] - [​IMG] - [​IMG]

    There are 4 complete levels to be played. West Bay Zone, Great Gate Zone, Gem Runway Zone and Chaos Angel Zone. The first 3 levels have 2 acts and then a boss act, whereas Chaos Angel, just has 3 acts (no boss as yet).

    The first two bosses you'll recognise from Sonic 2, but after 8 hits, watch out! Because Eggman will change his mood! This is called Pinch mode. The 3rd boss, is my brand new boss, not seen anywhere else. Hope you have fun destroying him; I always do!


    New monitors (electric shield, ?rings, random monitor)


    There are 3 new monitors compared to the original Sonic 2. The electric shield, which is the exact same as the normal shield, but you attract rings. You can lose this shield entering the water though. A "? rings" monitor, that will give you 1, 5, 10, 20 or 40 rings. 20 and 40 rings are a little bit rarer to obtain. And a random monitor that will cycle through all the ones you can get, but once destroyed, it will randomly give you a prize, or a nasty shock!

    Special stages

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]

    If you collect 50 rings or more at the end of the level, you can enter the special stage (not available on boss acts, or Chaos Angel act 2 or 3, cheats enabled, or all 7 emeralds already obtained). The sidekick will grab the plane, and you're off! There are 7 special stages. All you need to do, is survive the Sky Chases! If you survive, you win an emerald!

    Super form and Random Cheat code


    First of all, I apologise for that there is no Super form in Part One. I was stressed for time. I managed to get Knuckles working as Super, but Sonic was being a pain in the ass. And to be fair, there were more important stuff to get done. So I took Super Knuckles out as well. So what's the point in collecting 7 emeralds now then?


    Ah, this is what the warp is for! Once you've completed the game with all emeralds, the warp will become animated (meaning it's now active), and you can sacrifice all your emeralds for a random generated cheat code! Say yes, you lose your emeralds, but gain a code. Write your code down! The code is only shown once. From then, it will never tell you again. You can never get another code either (even if you get all the emeralds back). For a new code, you'll have to delete the data and start the game again from scratch. Once you've got your code, at the title screen, enter your code, you'll hear and see that you've entered it correctly, then hold A and press start to enter Level Select. If you don't hold A, you'll go to Portal, although cheats will be disabled.

    Once you're in Level Select, you can pick levels you've already done, or take a sneak peak at other levels that may be coming to Part Two. When selecting a level, hold A and press start to enable debug (not avail. in Portal or Special Stages). You know how debug works. Please be aware, there will be bugs and glitches when going to levels through Level Select and when using debug. After all, you are cheating!

    Delete Data Page


    To delete all your saved data (including emeralds and your generated cheat code), at the Title screen, hold A, B and C and press start. It'll ask you just to be sure. If you press yes, it will delete all your data and go to the SEGA screen. To be on the safe side, "No" is already highlighted.

    99% Lag-free

    S2R has lots of improvements to its engine, the game is almost lag-free. I would love to guarantee it, but there are 3 conditions where I cannot:

    • 2nd half of Great Gate Zone Act 2
    • Any level with cheats/debug enabled
    • PAL mode

    Otherwise, the game is 99% lag-free!

    Future updates and errors

    First of all, is your emulator up to scratch? Can it display flamewing's error report? To find out, go to Sound test and play $FF. You should then get something similar to this:


    If not, your emulator may not be up to scratch. Your emulator may just hang instead (or glitch up). So far, Regen reports and real hardware reports. Kega doesn't seem to and neither does MD.emu.

    As for future updates, there will be an update in a months' time. This update will contain any bug fixes you lot find. If the bug is game-breaking or mega-urgent, I will update ASAP. Otherwise, in a months' time. After the bug updates, the next update will be Part 2, but not until ages yet.

    This list will be updated everytime someone reports a new bug. Once it has been striked out, it means it will be fixed in the next update. Known bugs so far:

    • If you enter Chaos Angel Zone Act 2 via level select, the ending of the level will crash (just before the "End of Level results"). This only happens via level select. During normal gameplay, it's fine. I should really stop using + as labels =P
    • When you defeat the ARZ boss, 1% of the time, he may leave early. This bug is present in the original Sonic 2. The level is still complete-able though., just may appear glitched if this bug occurs.
    • The fading in/out/volume commands do not work correctly on the options menu (again, stupid branch error from me)

    Emulators and Hardware

    This game is working 100% with Regen, 100% with Kega, 100% with MD.emu, works 100% with Real Hardware (Tested with an Everdrive flash cart, OS v35 and Firmware v14 on a TMSS Asian MegaDrive system, running on Jap language at 60Hz). All other emulators are either not fully tested, or not tested at all.


    As you may know, there is an SRAM bug (explained in this thread), but S2R has internal coding to deal with this problem, although, it's not perfect. Eventually, it may fail (I do not know what triggers this fail). Once it's failed, it will always fail, due to Regen.


    No more waiting, download the game here! Same as the contest version:

    S2R Part1 at SHC

    Next links are available seeming as the SHC is currently down. These links provide to the exact same version as the SHC2013.
    RAR file
    ZIP file
    BIN file

    Download is only available at the SHC. Once the contest is over, the other links will be available.

    Contest 2013

    Now that this game will be public, if you're a member of SSRG or SonicRetro and you've enjoyed this game, do not forget to vote for it in the Sonic Hacking Contest 2013! And good luck too all other entries; it's a tough year this year!


    That's it! I hope you enjoy this game as much as I've enjoyed making it. Yet again, I'd like to say a huge thanks to valleyBell for his knowledge on the music and sound driver, and other useful stuff. StephenUK, for the magnicificant art he created for Great gate and West Bay Zone. Seeming as Part One has no staff credits yet, I'll list the credits here:

    The team
    • redhotsonic - creator, programmer, designer, beginner-artist
    • ValleyBell - musician, sound programmer
    • StephenUK - Artist

    People I'd like to thank
    • ValleyBell and StephenUK, helping making this game go to the next level.
    • All the creators of programs that I used in the creation of S2R.
    • SMTP, even though I haven't spoken to him properly for a while, he helped me with this many years ago. And frankly, this hack wouldn't have got far without him.
    • Module, for the guidance he gave me.
    • flamewing, for his advice and tips
    • Zana, for creating Gem Runway's background art
    • Jamie Bailey and Dragon XVI, for permission to use the midi for Gem Runway act 1 (act 2 remixed by ValleyBell)
    • Sonica and jasonchrist for permission to use their monitor art

    Special thanks
    • MarkeyJester, PsychoSk8r, KingofHarts, Spanner, and anyone else I may have forgotten (let me know)
    • OrdosAlpha and the other SSRG admins; for giving me my own web space so I can show the world S2R
    • My Friends and Family for their support.
    • And at last, but not least, the members of SSRG and SonicRetro, for your support.
  4. ValleyBell


    Tech Member
    researching PC-98/X68000 sound drivers
    RHS talked about the gameplay, so let me talk about sound and music.

    I worked a lot on S2R's sound driver since I joined RHS. This doesn't only mean I fixed many of those bugs the Sonic 1 driver has, but I also added lots of new features or recoded existing ones.
    New features are:
    • underwater mode* (makes all sounds softer)
    • custom DAC driver with lots of features (including underwater mode, volume control and you can override the sample's pitch)
    • added/modified coordination flags to be able to use all those features (I can even apply modulation to the DAC channel)
    • added PCM songs and Eggman voices
    • made SFX play while the music is fading and when the 1-up theme is playing
    • ported some special PSG flutter flags from Ristar
    • added two "Note Fill" modes (e.g. stop the note 1 or 2 frames before it would normally end)
    • added dynamic switching between DAC and FM6 mode
    • made proper sound index extention (yes, I can and do use slot $80)
    • added PAL mode and replaced "Speed Shoe" mode (both using multi-update and *)
    • coded own fading routine that allows varying speeds of fading
    • made fading to be balanced between DAC, FM and PSG (and made it take the PSG flutter value into account)
    • added 3 layers of music (BGM, Invincibility, 1-up)*
      That means you can get invincibility and then a 1-up. When the 1-up finishes, the invincibility theme resumes. If it runs out, the BGM resumes. (It can also load the invinc. theme in background, if the 1-up is playing.)
    • added seperate volume control for music and sfx (doesn't have an effect to the music on the options screen (but does on the level select and the rest of the game) due to me not catching buggy writes correctly)
    • improved sound queue to have 5 slots (instead of the usual 2), so it won't override music and SFX commands so easily
    • fixed spindash sound, frequency is controllable my main game, so it will represent the current charge (unlike Sonic 2, where the sound driver resets it every few frames)
    • added special music easter egg (It's present in 3 acts. If you're lucky or time "something" right, you can find them.)
    * This feature can be disabled or set on a per-song basis. The data is stored in a nice array, so good bye hardcoded 1-up jingle.

    Also, let's have a look at the sound test numbers:
    • 01-7F is music (01-29 is used, the pointer list has dummy songs for 2A-40 that stop the music)
      The Drowning jingle is unaffected by speed shoes and PAL mode to keep it in sync with the game, btw.
    • 80-8F are PCM songs (80-81 is used)
    • 90-9F are PCM SFX (90-93 is used)
    • A0-F3 are sound effects (A0-F2 is used)
    • F4-FF are special commands
      • F4 stop music in Invincibility Layer and resume BGM (works even if 1-up is playing)
      • F5 fade previous music in
      • F6 fade music out
      • F7 play SEGA sound
      • F8 set music tempo to "fast"
      • F9 set music tempo to "normal"
      • FA silence everything
      • FB SFX volume down
      • FC SFX volume up
      • FD music volume down
      • FE music volume up
      • FF test flamewing's error report (yeah, it crashes the ROM and it's not a bug - it's a feature)
    The volume goes from $00 (min) to $20 (max), 8 steps are 6 db. (Sorry, we ran out of time and so there's no counter indicating the current volume.) If you want uninterrupted music, set the SFX volume to 0. :P
    Also, all "unused" indexes do nothing. (sorry, it won't crash)

    Note: The songs in the sound test are subject to the same restrictions as ingame. So the invinc. theme won't play while the Drowning jingle is playing (or after it finished playing), but it will start/resume when you play F5.

    Now about the music itself: I made all songs that are no direct ports from other MegaDrive Sonic games with mid2smps. Most MIDIs came from, most of them were sequenced by King Meteor or Teck. The music of Gem Runway 2 is a remix by me.

    Since I like to use Stereo effects, I recommend to use headphones.
  5. Ashura96


    Download link not found...
  6. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    The actual Hacking contest site is still down. I've got to go to work now but at 1pm BST, if the site is still down, I'll upload S2R to my server so you have an alternative place to download it from.
  7. Aerosol


    Not here. Moderator
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Is it possible to see all of these optimizations and stuff in...vanilla sonic 2?
  8. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    Okay, added new links to my announcement post, or just look here:


    No more waiting, download the game here! Same as the contest version:

    S2R Part1 at SHC

    Next links are available seeming as the SHC is currently down. These links provide to the exact same version as the SHC2013.
    RAR file
    ZIP file
    BIN file

    Download is only available at the SHC. Once the contest is over, the other links will be available.

    Of course it's possible. Why wouldn't it be? Or am I missing something?
  9. dsrb


    I guess the question is less whether it's possible and more whether someone else is actually going to do it on other people's behalf.

    Of course, it's perfectly possible. There are various fixes and threads about them. Someone who's done the relevant reading and can make the necessary changes could easily put together a multi-patched ROM.

    But firstly, that's a lot of work for the person making the patched ROM, which other people could do in their own hacks if they really want it. And secondly, there comes a point where a certain fix isn't unambiguously a fix, where some people think it should be left how it is - and how do you please everyone in situations like that, short of contriving a complex, customisable build system or something?

    Thus, providing fixes as modifications to disassemblies is not a bad idea, letting people pick and choose the fixes they want and implement those themselves. I guess a compromise to placate the less 68000-inclined, somewhere between providing patches as code and expecting someone else to do all the work to make an edited ROM, would be to provide the patches in IPS format, though I'm not sure how feasible that is.
  10. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    I played through this hack. You have a lot of great ideas and the new features were implemented very well. I love the underwater filter, although filtering the bubble inhale sound is pointless since you will only ever hear it underwater, but that could just be a limitation, ie the filter automatically affects everything.
    The hack however is mostly bells and whistles. The level design is rather atrocious. I wanted to capture dozens of images and short videos just to illustrate everything but I don't have the time for that. Just going to point out a few key ones.
    So much of the level design is terribly imbalanced and unfair. The progression through just these four levels is also quite bad. The first level was short and I breezed through it unconsciously. The second level was just plain evil. Then the third level was somewhere in between. The fourth was mixed, with sections that were tediously easy then sections that were brutal. The biggest problem is that a great deal of the "difficulty" throughout the game is just really, really cheap.

    This was the first thing that really caught me. Right at the start of the level, I did what I often do and started with a spindash along the empty stretch. Then this little curve drops down directly onto the bridge, and I got hit by a piranha because the drop caused Sonic to unroll. First major dick move.

    Hidden Robotnik monitor in here. Why.

    The underwater sections here are really dickish. The amount of hazards thrown at you during this part is insane, with almost no chances to restore air. Then it leads to this wonderful little part which made me more frustrated that the jump dash doesn't work underwater, for some reason.

    And that part is immediately followed by this part, which is nothing short of Kaizo hack dickery. That's a Robotnik monitor, and just offscreen right is another Robotnik monitor.

    This part was poorly arranged. This is during a more frantic part where the terrain is crumbling everywhere. I instinctively jumped and jump dashed off this slope, only to be thrown inescapably into a bottomless bit under a vanishing bridge. I savestated here and no matter where or when I executed the jump dash along this stretch, I would always hit the side of the pit and fall to my death.

    This part is just a bug. I should be invincible here, but something caused me to revert to normal state that can take damage. The invincibility graphic is missing, but the music and icon remain.

    ...Why is this spring here? It leads to nothing. Edit: Missed a hidden platform to the left, my mistake.

    This spring doesn't work at all. Everytime I contact it, I just stick to it until gravity takes over my phantom velocity.

    This here is the classic bug of dying when below the view instead of at the bottom of the stage. One would think of all the bugs to fix, this would be one of them. I died because just above was a speed launcher that sent me down the side of this wall at ludicrous speed. I instinctively jumped off the surface and died. I retested this multiple times and there was no way around it. Edit: Because I missed that this area was a bottomless pit, however the camera boundary death bug has been confirmed anyway.

    Example of level design imbalance. This is part of a long empty section with one badnik just thrown in.

    Not long after is this sinister design. I mistook that little peg on the wall for a platform because I had not been introduced to that block launcher gimmick yet, and didn't realize it was part of it, so first thing that happens is I hit the spikes below it. After that, getting by the spinner is very difficult because the gap between the wall and the spinner's hitbox is both misleading in appearance and very narrow. It just about guarantees you're going to get hit by it the first couple times, and very likely more than that.

    If you wait just a bit too long, which could include missing your jump and redoing the block launcher, this guy walks up to the edge and makes it impossible to land without taking damage.

    Stair sequence of springs followed by this badnik rolling off the edge, which you will automatically be hit with if you land on the last spring in the sequence, something that anyone is going to do instinctively. Yet another of many dick moves in this game. Also, the spinners have REALLY bad hitboxes. There is a very tiny space in the center, in which you must strike them very perpendicular, in order to smash them. Anything else and you will take damage. In fact hitting them in the right spot doesn't even work all the time. Sometimes you will just randomly take damage anyway. It was difficult trying to determine how to attack them, and even then the unreasonable amount of accuracy it takes to hit them does you no good because nothing is consistent.

    And then this. Clearing those spikes is absurdly difficult. If you jump dash, guaranteed death. Jump slightly too far, death. Too short, take damage, chance of death. The margin of error is extremely slim. I savestated and retried this part over a dozen times trying to make this jump without taking damage. Without it, those tries would be lives, and the trial and error aspect would be far more difficult since you have to go through a great deal of the level again before retrying this jump.

    You really need to focus on the level design and recognize the cheap difficulty tactics. This should have been play tested a lot by you and others before this release. The overall feel I got from the game was that the bells and whistles were designed first out of fascination with the ideas, then you rushed the rest of development just to have a game to release to the public.
  11. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    Okalie-dokalie, let's see what I can help you with.

    Yeah, I shouldn't of hidden it, noted.

    I always wondered, did I make this too hard? From people who tested it, it was a bit tough, but they were okay with it. It is meant to be hard, but if I get more comments from everyone else that this is too "dickish", then of course, I will neaten it up.

    Sorry if I am missing the point, but, why not try jumping over the pits without air-dashing?

    WTF? Never seen this happen. I will look into this, thanks.

    Jump on the spring and move left. It does lead to something.

    Guh, thought I'd fix that. Most of the time, it works, but sometimes not. I will look into this.

    Don't jump and keep rolling.

    I admit, I could have done better.

    Thanks. Because I am so used to this game, I get it done quick. Didn't know that badnik could get that far. Will remove this badnik in the next update. Same with your next badnik problem.

    I normally get hurt doing this too, but I thought it made sense to have at least 4 spikes at some point. One tip; do not air-dash over them. Chaos Angel will be the final Zone in Part 2, that's why it's so hard. I was going to calm it down for the release for the contest, but ran out of time.

    Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate anything that is thrown at me and do accept criticism well. I have noted what you have said and promise to fix any bugs you mention in the next update, and neaten and improve the game for Part 2.
  12. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    It's far too difficult for the second level.

    Because the slope I have pictured there is a place one might instinctively jump and air dash. The pit is just the right distance ahead that you will fall into it and die, no matter where or when you jump dash during that part. It's impossible to anticipate the pit.

    That does not excuse this issue. Jumping from that surface is a very common response to that part. Just the fact that the bug is present in the game and that any number of scenarios could trigger it is bad. How could you expect players to not touch the controls during that part? Many players are going to jump off that surface instinctively and die unfairly because of that.

    The issue is that the jump is almost impossible for any player to clear without taking damage. It crosses the line of real difficulty into fake difficulty.

    Please keep in mind I am not just talking about those specific parts. I'm talking about the whole game being filled with cheap difficulty like the examples presented, with those being some of the significant ones. You should study your game for this phenomena and try to improve it likewise.
  13. Strife


    United States
    Freedom Planet 2
    A rule of thumb for badnik placement is that you never want to put them in the middle of a fast stretch of track unless you're 100% sure the player is going to be in ball form (such as if they were forced into it by a gimmick). Otherwise it's impossible to not get hit unless the player memorizes the stage layout.

    If you want an example of great badnik placement, check out Labyrinth Zone from Sonic 1. The drilling badniks are positioned in strategic locations such as the tops of staircases and in other areas where they know the player is going to be moving slowly enough to react to them.
  14. TheInvisibleSun


    Buffalo, NY, USA
    The Water
    Found a bug; It is possible to spindash off of the tornado during the Special Stages (as it is in vanilla Sonic 2). Did you leave this intentionally, or do you plan on changing this later on?
  15. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    I, huh? I can understand your point the first time if you did that, and maybe the second time because you forgot, but the 3rd or 4th time, you must have learnt not to air-dash at that point. Just walk down the slope and jump over the pit.

    The reason why there is a platform with Dash-Hoops there is because the bit you're running down, if you go too fast, there's a 10% chance Sonic won't grip onto it and will fall. That platform is a life-saver. Going on it then the Dash-Hoops, will only take you to the place where you were originally running/rolling. I can see your point trying to jump on it instinctively, but if I didn't put it there, I'd probably get moaned that it's unfair that Sonic would fall to his death there. Either way, I'm going to lose this battle, but thought it's better to be safe than sorry. Also, them Dash-Hoops are there for Knuckles alternative route...

    I'll see what I can do.

    I will take this on board for the next update, and will do a clean-up on your suggestions and from others. Thanks for your time.

    I admit, I have put some badnik in odd places, this will be looked at. But there are a few where you can be rolling, but did you know if you're bursting with Sonic, you can run into enemies at a great speed, and just destroy them? This isn't an excuse, just letting you know.

    Intentional, becase otherwise the special stages would be too easy, and because I think it makes a lot more sense for the character to fall off the plane if you spindash off it. I don't consider this as a bug.

    Keep your opinions coming!
  16. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    So you're telling me players should have to trial and error that part because they'll be totally blind the first time.

    This part mind you:
    The launcher sends Sonic down the side of this wall, and a natural response is to jump from it. I did not jump because of the dash hoops at the bottom. Didn't even see those until later. The game kills you if you go below the camera (as opposed to below the level boundary), so it's a guaranteed death because of the open space and Sonic's speed. I'm willing to bet there's a number of situations where this is possible that I haven't found yet. You've got to fix that bug.

    I also forgot to mention that the sound effect for the dash hoops is really weak. I could barely hear it. Anything else would do better, even if it's just the spindash launch sound.
    Also, the music for Gem Runaway Act 1 is really out of tune, it sounds bad.
  17. ValleyBell


    Tech Member
    researching PC-98/X68000 sound drivers
    That's what you get for using crappy emulators like Gens. (And no, Gens Rerecording is bad, too.)
    Use something decent like Gens/GS or Kega Fusion or be quiet.

    (In case you didn't notice, these links are pointing to small audio examples.)
  18. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

    A wise guy eh. I know how to DEAL with wise guys. Member
    The Land of Waldos
    Sonic Utopia, Sonic Overture
    I use Gens Rerecording and it's been great, although I'd like to know what about it is so poor.
    The Gens GS example you posted only sounds slightly better. The pulse sound is in tune now, but the song itself is just bad. There's still disharmonic elements everywhere.
  19. Spanner


    The Tool Member
    United Kingdom
    Sonic Hacking Contest
    I've played this for the Hacking Contest and really, I'm saying what a lot of people have said about this hack, it's way too much over hyped. Chaos Angel Zone just doesn't look fitting to the Mega Drive, it's just so bland. Make it so that the art fits the capabilities of the MegaDrive, not something that's just way too much reduced. The music could have been a lot better, the instrumentation in particular. It just sounds like it's the same bunch of instruments all the time and really, that limits the soundtrack to something that could have been better, but isn't.

    Now this doesn't mean that everything is bad. Although there are people who aren't a fan of the underwater sound mode, it's good to see someone implement this. I like the Great Gate Act 2 crumbling part, I haven't seen a hack before that does anything like this. I like seeing a Special Stage that doesn't use the original game's, although it really needs to be more than just playing through the same Sky Chase act over and over again. Increase the size, set ring targets that you must do. If you don't get enough rings, you don't get the Chaos Emerald.
  20. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    I don't understand how this is a bug. You may get a natural reaction to jump suddenly, but then you'll know you'll die. Don't do it a second time. You can see the level curves round so you'll know that you'll run around upside-down. You've done it many times in this act and the previous act. You see it in other hacks and other official Sonic games. Like I said, there's a platform there just in case Sonic fails to grip. Then the DashHoops will lead you to where you were first heading. Here's a pic when the curve failed to grip:


    I agree, noted.

    Already knew CAZ's art was terrible, and there are already plans for it to have a complete revamp. Unfortunately, there wasn't time to do it for the contest. And I had a choice, either leave the art, and hope people can stand it or now and enjoy the layout, music, badniks, gimmicks etc. Or, take CAZ completely out and only have 3 levels. It was decided to leave it in the contest; so the game would last longer. Part 2 will not contain Chaos Angel. Anyway, speaking about this level, you said on the podcast you got stuck at one point and couldn't get out and requested help?

    I can't speak for instruments. I just listen to the music and say "yay" or "ney". I will admit that GRZ music could have been better, this is my least favourite and ValleyBell knows this. Maybe some other tracks could be improved, but to say all of it is bland, I do disagree. I like CAZ3's music, like the Boss pinch, special stage, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the music is better than everyone elses; there's some good tracks out there. But if you're talking about instrument choices, then I'll let ValleyBell say about that because I don't know =P

    I think you're the first to see this. I've seen a few comments saying the levels aren't special or anything; making me think, "Did they even get to GGZ2?" That took me a lot of work to do. Also, other levels have a few gimmicks and etc., but no one has seemed to notice this.

    Unfortunately, Special Stages were kind of a late add-in, so it was hugely rushed. Each special stage is different, and from SS5 onwards, they do get longer, and I fear I've made SS7 too hard! In Part 2, Special Stages will be greatly improved, as there were plans for me to do to these for Part 1; I just ran out of time and had to say "this'll do". I know it's not much of an excuse, but again, it's either having some special stages or none at all.

    Thanks for everyone's opinions and comments so far. I am noting these down for the update to happen in a few weeks time and for Part 2 in the future. Keep them coming!