Sonic 2 (Movie) Spoiler/Discussion Topic (Stay away if you don't want to be spoiled)

Yeah, if I were reviewing this as a critic I'd probably give it a 7, maybe an 8 if I was really willing to let my Sonic fanboy dictate the conversation.

Sonic fan? 11 out of 10, baby. Fuck yeah.

 

Yay, my choice got a vote!

On the topic of Shadow's public image among fans of different eras, I'll say that, in fact, he was the most interesting character for me in SA2, I actually liked to see the game from the bad guys' perspective but it was essentially his masterplan, not Eggman's. I think the bad part was that he was presented so much as your typical shonen rival and his similarity with Sonic that he fails to appeal on first sight if you're not into those things. Personally I think is good to have both styles introduced in the series so people can pick up their favourite, and I agree he wouldn't have been a good character for the 90s but it wasn't introduced back then.

Oh, and I want Silver in the movies too, I think there's wasted potential in this character and could benefit a lot from appearing in the next or any incoming movie.

 

Watched the movie last weekend. I thought it was cute and felt much more like what a Sonic movie should be compared to the first one. Is it great? ...Debatable. But I enjoyed the characterizations of Tails and Knuckles, Jim Carrey is always amazing, and I think that for the Sonic that they're going for that Ben Schwartz does a really good job. Also, like all of us probably, I enjoyed all the references sprinkled in everywhere. I particularly enjoyed spotting the Sonic Adventure pose and the reference to Black Knight when Sonic summons a chili dog from the sky while he's Super Sonic.

I thought the island that opened up the Master Emerald labyrinth/temple thing was going to be Angel Island. I thought the underwater labyrinth was kinda strange but I appreciate that they went for an approach that was less about directly lifting from the source material and more about creating something based on it instead.

The ending got me big time. I probably should have seen Shadow coming after they introduced GUN, but after the climax with the Death Egg Robot, I thought they would've gone for a Death Egg set up for the next movie (although I suppose that could totally still happen). I just wasn't expecting a jump from Sonic 2/3 to SA2. As long as they make something that feels like the fun adventure that this movie felt like, I don't particularly care.

Also, I brought my girlfriend with me to see the movie. She is not a Sonic fan but she's a Marvel fan and didn't mind going to see it with me. There's one scene right before Eggman and Knuckles show up on Earth where Sonic is talking to the dog and he says that something is the "woooOooOoorst." This is a clear reference to Parks and Recreation and Ben Schwartz's character on the show. We both died laughing and no one else in the theater got the reference which made it way funnier

 

Am I alone in thinking that the Master Emerald as a powerful amalgamation of the seven emeralds is better? I dunno, I don't really get the appeal of having both the seven individual emeralds and the one big emerald.

 

In the games I don't mind the separation.

In the movie I'm split on the decision to have that distinction to begin with. Yeah, it's just one amalgamation at first but by the end we're left with 7 Chaos emeralds and the Master Emerald anyways.

I'm guessing that from a story perspective it was perhaps better for the general audience to have one mcguffin instead of 8.

But would it have really complicated the plot more to have them separate to begin with? They could've still been stolen by the owls and hidden on earth together. Eggman could've still used the power of all of them. Knuckles could've still knocked them out of him, then the emeralds "dying" and Sonic using 7 to transform.

Idk, maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture on why the decision was made.

I was planning to go to the q+a screening with the writers today and asked them about why that decision was made (and a little bit more about the echidnas, owls and the conflict they had) but work got in the way.

 

I just know that the Chaos Emeralds coming out of the Master was such a great surprise and when they appeared I just knew that was going to happen. And it did, and thus I was instantly transported to being 10 again.

Usually endgames for movies and games leave me wanting more, but not that time. They knocked it out of the Twinkle Park. They love Sonic.

 

Something I REALLY liked about the emerald plotline was Robotnik saying something along the lines of "Chaos is Power" while absorbing the Master Emerald, but we then have "Power is enriched by the heart" shown at the end there.

 

I’m surprised that people find this Knuckles to be preferable to the games. I get that it’s nice to see him expanded and given a bigger role considering the focus of the movie partially being on him, but the only distinguishing features I can remember are overly stilted dialogue and an increased obsession with acting honourably. The first of which was a neutral change at best and distracting at worst (mostly in the end scene with the ice cream). I also didn’t really enjoy the change from wanting to guard the emerald to wanting to use its power.

I enjoyed the movie and how they handled him overall, but I get the feeling that most people saying it’s their favorite just enjoy seeing the character used properly for the first time since SA1 or 2… and Idris Elba who is a pretty cool guy.

Does anyone want to elaborate on why it’s their fave?

 

Sega characters or sonic character rather when they are first introduced are often a multitude of things that get sort of widdled down into a character later especially in the minds of the audience ( And then even more years later flanderized and made worse by the company). This movie knuckles i actually contradictory to what knuckles's first introduction is , which is a more wile e coyote type of character. Setting up traps and schemes laughing at you, which isn't really that " honorable " and definitely contradictory " I don't smile I don't chuckle I would rather flex my muscles " , both versions of these characters effectively ignore his history to. Despite the fans and even sega themselves saw this history fueling a more tough honest and honor bound character. And the film is a good realization of all the elements of his characters combined. He's what people wanted knuckles to be the ideas and concepts sprinkled throughout and never realized culminating into a point. Will it be the best realization? Probably not, I can see i dunno sega maybe making things more like the films and another adaptation that isn't a film maybe being able to get more in the weeds for fans like me. But for a film for audiences its pretty good. And he works perfectly with that sonic.

I hope a similar thing happens with shadow and he ends up the " angsty superman/ Batman with superpowers" that people like to view him as, eventually. I don't think that arc is gonna take place over a single film. That said though I have confidence he will be interesting at least. Shadow as a character will be the first character they engage with that has a narrative through line a lot of people know. Team sonic's were just narrative odds and ends from various pieces of in game actions, old design docs game manuals and tidbits from the sonic channel site because a lot of sonic characters especially the classic ones are a bit, loose. Shadow has a plot, there is still going to be room for them to meld various odds and ends to create a better story ( I hope they include the black arms I think they are cool ) , but generally he has a plot that takes place over 4-ish games and some comics. And it will be interesting to see how this film handles adapting a thing that's kind of known, shadow and his deal. I personally think it would be interesting if the film got a little " meta" not in the sense of the dreadful dialog in the modern games or just pointing at the camera, but this film cannot and should not do a direct adaptation of sa2. But shadow is a known entity and you can cut out some of the mystery because a lot of people know shadow and just have them engage with him.


Played My Micheal B Jordan.

 

Finally got to watch the movie today, and I'm happy to say it met my expectations. Everything that worked about the first movie has been improved here while stripping back that movie's weak points. The theme of found family was deepened and enhanced and it's really sweet to see them lean in to Sonic being Tom and Maddie's son. Even the bit where they're ready to die together hit me a bit emotionally. Carrey also deepens the insanity of Robotnik and the opening scene of him staging the ambush, meeting Knuckles and returning to Earth were all very well executed. Knuckles and Tails are well realised and I'm surprised at how well they handled Tails' arc and motivations given that he knew about Sonic and worshipped him *before* even having met him. The running joke of "Only Sonic the Hedgehog..." overstayed its welcome but otherwise it was nice to see Tails more or less go through his of S2 - SA2 in this film. Meanwhile Knuckles was also pretty well done. He got a bit one-note towards the end but he provided a great balance of threat and levity until his heel-face turn in his scenes with Sonic and Robotnik respectively.

My one significant problem with the movie is that resolution of the wedding B-plot. After Sonic, Tails and Tom were detained, it felt to me as though this plot took over the focus of the film more than Maddie saving our heroes, to the point where it felt like padding. Watching Rachael go ham in the golf buggy *was* funny and I feel like she's going to get quite a bit of memetic popularity within the movie Sonic community in particular, but the resolution to her conflict with...I wanna say Randal (????) was very flat and predictable. Still, it was all pretty self-contained and didn't take away from any of the rest of the movie.

And now the elephant in the room. Super Sonic was fantastic. The entire action sequence channelled the intro cutscene to Sonic Unleashed in the best ways and the character was visually striking, despite not departing from the design beyond the changes the movies have already made to Sonic. The bit with Knuckles claiming "he's not the Sonic you know" and Sonic looking menacing while gathering storm clouds made me really concerned they were going to take him down the godawful Fleetway path, but thankfully they swerved from that and gave it a good punchline.

Overall, I feel like this was very enjoyable movie. It was dumb as hell and even just straight up cringe-inducing in places (basically any time any one dances), but it's having a lot of fun doing so while also being able to tug at our emotions, and I think that sense of heart is the most important thing for any Sonic story to capture. I maintain that people overrate the first movie by calling it the first great video game movie, but this one? I think it absolutely earns such a title.

Oh, and Shadow. Uh, yeah. Interested to see what backstory they come up with for him given how the movie setting exists, but I don't particularly mind him coming in, and I in fact think he could be introduced alongside Metal Sonic to enhance them both and the third movie by setting them up as foils to one another. Shadow was created fifty years ago as a biological organism, likely still to heal, and he likely still has his angst against humanity. I think he'll be volatile from the get-go and, rather than teaming up with Robotnik immediately, I think the third movie should be the two sides fighting to win Shadow's heart. Sonic to save him, Eggman to corrupt him. Meanwhile, we know Robotnik has zero trust or confidence in organic beings, but Shadow inspires him to create his own doppelganger to Sonic in Metal Sonic. While Shadow is an unpredictable entity, Metal is hardwired to Robotnik's will - a killing machine that will pursue Sonic and co. with cold efficiency. But Shadow will grow, while Metal stays static. At least, that's my pitch. As for casting...I *hope* it's Robert Pattinson but I *fear* it'll be Jared Leto.

 

I'm just some guy on the internet. I have no inside info. But I think the idea of metal sonic being introduced in the same film as shadow is something that isn't going to happen. Like if they were going to introduce metal, they would have. They chose shadow for a reason and shadow is a character who chews scenery and who's story takes up space. Especially say if rouge or amy show up , there just really wouldn't be room. You got tails and knuckles at the same time because tails requires virtually no explanation, he's luigi. You get some bonds built , but it doesn't require much a lot of the films narrative is knuckles and even knuckles story is a lot of separate pieces melded together to create something kind of coherent. A character with an actual narrative, plot motivations all that and that character is still a large portion of the fanbases favorite.

No shadow's going to be the guy.

 

As mentioned, the reason I find this version of Knuckles preferable is that it builds on the concepts of the character introduced in Sonic 3 and later, Sonic Adventure. Those two games are Knuckles` two biggest appearances in the franchise and establish everything you need to understand the character, barring the shit from the comics. And those got a nod with giving Knuckles a father, and an Echidna leader who went mad with power as a result of the Emerald's power. So Knuckles is the last of an ancient race that prided power over everything else, to the point of their own extinction. In addition to be a physically oriented fighter to contrasts with Sonic's speed. It only makes sense that a character like that would have a warrior-like mentality and a sense of honor to go with it. This is on top of being a Fish Out Of Water, who mostly grew up separated from society and has severely stunted social skills as a result, as opposed to being all and out stupid and bumbling like his later depictions would go with.

The only real missing piece of Movie!Knuckles is there's no Angel Island, but there's nothing saying they can't introduce it later. But yea, its the culmination of many concepts they established in the games, but never really elaborated on before they ultimately dropped them. Nowadays, Sega doesn't really give a fuck about Knuckles or any of his background, only really keeping him around due to his legacy and shoving him into games when they need some comic relief. Sonic Forces is a pretty good example of how much they just don't know what to do with the character, just shoving him into a military leader role (even though he's supposed to be a warrior with no understanding of modern society???) and the just ignoring him entirely while the game is about Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the Avatar.

It's not just because Game!Knuckles has been out of the limelight, but rather Movie!Knuckles reestablishes and builds upon the early concepts of the character and his background, making him a much more three-dimensional character as a result. Now don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible what happened to Drax in the MCU, will happen to him. Where he's a three-dimensional character in the first movie, but then becomes comic relief muscle in the later ones. But I'd be fine with that at least if they didn't forget that he's supposed to be strong like the games have done with him.


It's why I'm genuinely excited what they're going to do with Shadow, because it's finally a chance for people see him beyond what memes and lackluster video game writing have portrayed him as for almost 20 years now. And unlike Team Sonic, Shadow already has a very elaborate backstory that details who he is and what he's about, so it would be very hard to mess that up. About the only things you would need to elaborate on would be why he and Sonic look alike and what connections do they have. You do that, build on the stuff established in Sonic Adventure 2, while keeping just enough edginess to him, then Shadow will get a similar reaction to what Knuckles has been getting.

I'm not really expecting this to change how Sega treats them, because this film franchise is ultimately temporary no matter how long it lasts, and Sega has no direct input on the creative process. They'll likely just keep it moving and just keep Knuckles, Shadow and the rest of the cast in lackluster roles. But hey, maybe I'll be proven wrong?

 

I think when most people say they prefer him to the games they mean more current games, or at least games post SA1 where his flanderization started to get bigger and bigger and he was just there.

Here you see him in his prime, capable as Sonic and important to the plot. Something that he hasn't been for a while.

This statement might age as milk, but at the end it also solves an issue people have with SegaKnuckles.

He's not tied and isolated to Angel Island, and stays with Sonic and Tails as a family unit protecting the Master Emerald.

 

I mean you kinda nailed it. This is Knuckles' first real important role in the series since, like, SA2, and even then he was a side character not involved much in the main plot. Frankly he wasn't involved much in SA1 either. And of course post-SA2 he was marginalized even further into just another random character that showed up because he had legacy and not to do anything. Then Boom turned him into a completely stereotypical idiot meathead. Then in Forces he was stupid but in an entirely different way somehow and also completely unimportant.

So the fact that he even is a major character and serious threat in the movie alone is cool, and I like the way they've done his character by honing in on the "honor-driven warrior tribe dude" angle. He always was a member of a warrior tribe, but this movie actually makes that part of his personality instead of just a note in his backstory. Combine that with Elba's great acting and we've got a winner here.

I'm excited for Shadow in the third movie for the same reason: finally, he can actually go back to being important and has a chance to not be the vegeta stereotype SEGA mandated he become for...some reason. Because edgy dumbass Vegeta Shadow sucks and is nothing like his original character, much like how pathetic wimp Tails sucks and completely non-serious surfer dude Sonic sucks. I would add more characters here but everyone not mentioned is so utterly completely marginalized there's not even a shitty modern version of them to rag on

 

It's particularly bad when some fans praise characters like Blaze for "not being ruined", mainly by virtue of her just being so unimportant that she hasn't had a chance to be ruined. It's the embodiment of the term "Damned by Faint Praise" lmao.

Its why part of me hopes that if they do add Amy, maybe they can dig her out of the hole of "Sonic's obsessed fangirl" and "Token female character" that Sega have tossed her into as of late, because lord knows Amy is a character that needs a refresh.

 

I think thats about what I rate it as well. The first movie wasn't "amazing" but it didn't have as many lows, it was kinda the same throughout for me.

Movie 2 had higher highs, especially the last 1/3 of the movie was really great...but lower lows. The middle of the movie got a bit on my nerves though, I couldn't wait for the wedding scene to be over. It seemed a lot of people liked that scene for some reason, I wasn't one. I think that scene may have existed simply to reinforce the human character relationships as having any kind of signficance but it doesn't do a good job of that. I forgot about them completely once Robotnik and Knuckles opened up hidden palace and the green beam shot into the sky.

I also thought the siberian dance off was a little weird but Tails made up for it by being adorable.

I'm tempted to rate it as a 7.5 instead of a 7 because of how much I love the late portion, I was all up in my feelings, ngl.

 

You kind-of have to take those risks otherwise your franchise is gonna stagnate

 

The dance scene is too long, it should have been a bit shorter. I didn't mind having it but I started hating it when it took forever. I get it was the moment where Sonic and Tails create their bond and start acting as a team, but it took them too long to start working together, and then suddenly they were too synched and spent a lot of time "bragging", so to speak.