Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Sonic Warrior TJ, Mar 30, 2022.
Being Poochie implies Shadow ever left
Calling the most consistently popular character in the franchise its poochie is just...lol
I love classic genesis grognards, y'all say some HILARIOUS shit.
One would have assumed the incredibly positive reaction Shadow's reveal got from hordes of kids would have put this argument that he is anything but an extremely popular and well-liked character across generations (much like Sonic himself) to rest.
Because let's face it: Shadow is not some weird side character, he is nearly as popular as the main trio, fuck he's more popular than all of them according to the polls. He is not some "old shame" the franchise needs to put away, and the insistence that he is is just bizarre at this point. He is as iconic as Sonic himself.
I'm fairly certain Fadeaway was being facetious, even Shadow's most ardent dissenters have probably just begrudgingly accepted his place in this franchise.
If anything, the fact that the filmmakers decided to incorporate him after Tails and Knuckles, Sonic's most well-known sidekicks, just reinforces Shadow's place in the series hierarchy. He's just as much of a staple to the series as Tails and Knuckles are and that's something people just gotta accept.
Not that it's gonna stop people from complaining about him of course, because how dare a "recolor" gain as much popularity as the main character.
God, its like how controversial Sasuke Uchiha and Katsuki Bakugo are in their respective franchises. What is it about this Shonen rival archetype that pisses people off so much.
I accept him as a character most certainly (apologies to Stephen King for the adverb) but there were many of us who had a negative opinion of his character. I've at least experienced them online. I can only say I have a negative opinion because that has always been my genuine reaction. I'm not the first to call him Poochie, for what it is worth. However, my main argument is that the character is less diverse than some other characters who usually don't get the limelight.
With that out of the way, I'll be the first to admit I would be super appreciative of a good version of the character.
But, I guess if Mario has his Wario, Shadow makes some sense. I still feel it is a lazy aesthetic and am not much a fan of additional characters in the vein of Wario or Waluigi. A bit less creative than, say, Vector, for instance. Totally different species and totally different look. It is all aesthetics with me. The teen angst stuff also alienates me. Not into the general theme.
But, there may be something worth bringing to film in there. To be honest, I didn't know Shadow had such a huge fan base till relatively recently. I pretty much stayed away from the Sonic series after Adventure got such a negative reaction from me and friends way back. I only focused on the earlier titles that came out when I was a teenager. That could be why. So, in short, I'm old.
Growing up I never cared for Shadow on a conceptual level. He's just an edgier/emo mirror of Sonic. But I've grown to enjoy the character for what he is (or should I say what he was, in SA2).
Keanu Reeves is kind of a meme these days, but I 100% think he would be perfect for the role. It will be very disappointing if they don't get him to voice Shadow in the third film.
Shadow is arguably the least two-dimensional character in the whole cast. He's the only one that was actually written to have an open and closed arc. ...despite.. coming back and staying around forever. But he's about as complex as Sonic characters come, honestly.
With your involvement and your outlook for the character, I will admit I can be invested.
Shadow's kind of a weird character. He was marketed so hard as "SONIC but BAD!" that it overshadowed the misdirection that was meant to be at play - He is not a reversal of Sonic, and he's not even a bad guy (choices in Shadow the Hedgehog being mostly irrelevant), just someone who wanted to do bad things for the sake of revenge. You're going to miss these aspects of the character when your only starting perception of him is something you're disinterested in from the start, which is why playing it up as a mystery (something that's impossible to do when you solve it in the first appearance) might make it more palatable.
or maybe I'm giving people too much credit and they just hate Shadow because he exists at all.
That makes sense actually. Most hate for Shadow I see is purely on an aesthetic and conceptual level as opposed to his actual personality and character arc.
The entire deceit of the character is that he only looks like Sonic, but that's mostly where the similarities end as Shadow's diverges heavily after that.
Granted, I've heard his story arc is also just too dark and uncomfortable for people too, so I dunno.
Regardless, dark mirror characters to the main character, when done well, generally always take off with the audience. There's always going to be intrigue surrounding a character who embodies more negative qualities of your main character. Its not original but it been proven to work.
It doesn't really help that Sega/Sonic Team just have no idea what to do with him nowadays like every other character, so he suffers from the same shit writing as everyone else, which exacerbates those extreme reactions and opinions about him.
I don’t think it’s that’s they don’t know what to do with him, it’s that they don’t want to do anything with him. He’s a spent character.
His own arc ended with his game. They followed it up in a logical and interesting story in ‘06 but seeing as that game ruined Sonic, and as they changed direction to only focusing as players being able to play as Sonic, Shadow, like many other characters, had been stuck in this limbo where he’s now only known as a bit character based on his previous appearances and has regressed to being used based on his general persona which is simply ‘bad Sonic’.
Sonic Generations used him as a bad guy, and the his speech when he meets you in the hub world seems to suggest that he’s still Sonic’s enemy, though it’s never really explained if he’s from the present or from another point in time.
Sonic Boom used him (as far as I can tell as I haven’t watched it) as the generic bad guy to Sonic again.
This may just continue as I can’t imagine Sonic Frontiers is suddenly going to have him back centre stage.
I don't really see the distinction. The bottom line is that Shadow is without purpose nowadays and Sega just shove him into games to remind fans of when he was actually a better written character.
Despite the connection between the two being flimsy, I still find Shadow to ultimately be a mirror of Sonic. Beyond having the same powerset, they're both cocky, impulse, and carry a strong sense of individuality that's impossible to contain. Unlike Knuckles or Metal Sonic, Shadow was able to plan around Eggman from the very start because he's already as sharp as Sonic is and has his own views on what should happen to the world. Nihilistic ones but views nonetheless.
The main difference between them is that he lost his "sibling", his "Tails," and something so devastating hit hard enough to color his entire worldview. Thus, you get a Sonic who's love for life and adventure is replaced with destructive resentment. Even as a hero he's less concerned with the sense of fun and adventure that comes from heroics and more concerned about efficiency and harm reduction. IDW smartly identified this as enough to create friction between them. The games kind of just had him hang around, but they were always capable of doing more. Just more storytelling opportunities left on the table.
After seeing how the movies handled Tails and Knuckles I actually have higher hopes for Shadow than I ever thought I would. If they play their cards right they might be able to dig into what really makes him fascinating without any of the bloat and baggage the games left us with.
I think I've settled on Benedict Cumberbatch as Shadow.
I saw it a few days ago and have had some time to reflect on my experiences with it. It was very fun overall and much better than the first, which I thought was a fun movie in the first place. The pacing is a lot better and takes itself through a whole lot of scenarios and locations thus feeling like a real adventure this go around.
Knuckles was really great, I'd say the best version of him so far. His character wasn't as ironclad serious as I'd thought it would be, since his earnestness made for some great misunderstandings between him and Robotnik.
The movie also got a few genuine laughs out of me, which might be the most surprising thing about it. Robotnik riding a lawnmower is something I need in my life.
Whenever I reflect on it I find more things about it that I liked. Aside frome some rather out-of-place bits, there wasn't anything about it that sucked. The final scenes were insane. The movie as a whole was very likable. I definitely want to see it again.
The Olive Garden Guy being the G.U.N. Commander might be the greatest plot twist in movie history.
Honestly the only one I could see voice Shadow is his VA from SA2. Griffith was fine, but even he just made him feel like a dark Sonic. (Which makes sense)
@Zigetch absolutely agreed on Knuckles, this was by far my favorite interpretation of the character. It's nice seeing Knuckles being legitimate again, arguably more now than ever.
Idris Elba was a great casting choice.
Yea, this is legitimately the best version of Knuckles I've seen. The changes made not only make sense, but they enhance the character too.
Ita gonna be kind of jarring going to back to the games and comics where he's just a normal guy tbh
The entire thing is maybe an 8/10 at a stretch if I put on my rational hat, but I wasn't wearing that in the theater and I don't think I *can* wear it while watching it in future. This movie was an utmost pleasure, and Knuckles especially was done a massive service in this retooling of the character; easily the definitive iteration.
I instinctually rocketed forward in my seat, hands over my heart, and gasped when Super Sonic tapped the DER on the chest with his foot. I did NOT expect a Sonic 06 reference as the big climax to this film, but it's there and I love it. Sonic is COOL, and I'm so glad the incredible people who worked on this movie know how to let all of him and his world shine.
I would be ok with Game Knuckles acting like Movie Knuckles from now on.
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