Sonic 2 HD

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Canned Karma, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. Blivsey

    Blivsey

    Charismatic Sonicaholic Member
    We can only imagine at this point. Or we could do the same thing that started this project in the first place and post images. :v:
     
  2. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Shit, you beat me to it. I was just tracing a 4X Casino Night tile. >_> Oh well, it was just the crappy stair-box anyway...
     
  3. zemulii

    zemulii

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    That's about how I feel regarding. What Canned Karma said about releasing assets being up to the individual artists I can sort of respect. But then Vincent comes in and starts getting all precious about them. Sorry, but who cares if some people "misuse" them (that in itself is a little insulting)? At least some good is bound to come of it. What has been created would certainly be an incredibly useful resource for the entire community here, but instead it's going to amount to NOTHING. You've got a real opportunity to make some good of this mess, and due to reasons of pride and arrogance you're going to pass it up. I realise it's not my place to tell people what to do with their own art, but I hate to see things go to waste.

    Who's going to argue that Retro doesn't have the talent and patience to make something of this? All it needs is a chance, and it's not getting it because of current attitudes.

    Edit: I really appreciate CornetTheory's own intentions of course.
     
  4. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    Not to put pressure on you or anything, but I remember you were doing work for the animals and I'd love to see you take a crack at it again, if you feel like it. (Also I'd love to know some of your vector secrets, I struggle with vectors and Inkscape is still a mystery to me)
     
  5. Falk

    Falk

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    Good grief. Why are you so hung up about the existing assets and existing project? Nothing is preventing -anyone- from starting up S2HD again. The current S2HD team doesn't hold any license to any intellectual property (I know this statement is kinda tragically humorous considering what's happened in the past two weeks, but it doesn't make it any less fact) other than their own effort into their own assets.

    Here, I'll repeat myself on how 'the community' could 'go about stuff' that saves the most amount of effort should things work out

    1) Come up with assets for CPZ or CNZ
    2) Come up with an engine that puts those assets into place

    IF 'the community' can pull that off, then either
    a) the assets from both projects merged (although Vincent referenced resized Sonic sprites for more an engine demo, not new art assets) the existing GHZ/EHZ/title art/spritesheets get integrated into the new project. No effort is wasted
    b) there's already a workflow on how to make assets, you have a working engine that runs CPZ/CNZ, re-doing EHZ/GHZ won't take that long. Not the best solution, but you get to lord it over the current team that you did what they Nintendidn't.

    I don't understand what kind of 'chance' you're looking for. There's no magic button some arbitrary dude presses that says 'ok, you can start working on a new project'. So, stop being all talk and no action and make it happen. Otherwise:
     
  6. zemulii

    zemulii

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    Falk: Because I'm no leader by any stretch of the imagination. I'm no programmer (although I know the basics). There's little I can do but encourage things along is there?

    And what's more likely to get things going:

    A) All assets are available. People have that certainty, there's no risk involved.
    B) Programmers set up a mockup engine on the trust that Vincent will be around and cough up assets when they come up with something that's up to his standards.

    There's no assurance they'll be available, so why would ANYONE go to the effort of setting up an entire engine in such a case ESPECIALLY considering what has just happened?

    Like I said, right now there's no chance. The best we can have is a small chance. Which is better than nothing. Also sorry, I thought it was okay to talk on a forum.

    Volpino: I'd love to get back into doing something like that at some point. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on S3HD. My vectors were mostly a lot of trial and error. Many micro adjustments. I was pretty new to it when I started and haven't done a lot since, so I'm not sure how much help I can be! That said, I'll go back through my working files and see if there was anything interesting there (actually, I could send you the working file if you'd like?).
     
  7. Falk

    Falk

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    edit: Sorry for the massive edit; found a way that sums up what I want to say much better

    What I gather from your post is that a potential programmer might be reluctant to do anything because there's no guarantee of assets that live up to his expectations. Potential art contributors might be reluctant to do anything because there's no guarantee of a functional engine at the end of the day. The irony is that is -exactly- what Vincent is saying: 'show me the money'. The fact of the matter is, people who has the motivation and capability to make an engine and/or new assets can do so regardless of if the existing EHZ/spritesheet assets are public or not.

    As it is you're essentially hypothesizing that everyone who otherwise would be potentially 'given a chance' to be capable of delivering, is instead pointing fingers at everyone else saying 'he needs to do something first', which is essentially a Belling the Cat situation, and what I was referring to regarding 'less talk, more action'. Of course you're still welcome to continue to be snarky about 'okay to talk on a forum', I don't mind.

    My point was, considering the state of the current code and what assets have yet to be completed, if a new engine that runs new CPZ/CNZ assets (With placeholder upscaled Genesis Sonic/etc it you want to be picky) can't be produced in the first place, then it doesn't matter if the current assets are publicized or not; whatever derivative project would have been doomed to failure, anyway.
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Well I just want to see what they had. Watermark it if you want, cause I don't care if S2HD gets revived.
     
  9. zemulii

    zemulii

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    Yeah well, some forums bring out the worst in me. Of course I realise what you were saying, I just can't see what other action I'm supposed to be taking (though you were probably speaking to the community at large rather than just me). I think the real point is that there ARE art assets. There is no engine. As far as "he needs to do something first" goes... on the programming side, an entire engine needs to be created. On the art side... well, it just has to be released. It's basically all down to whether or not there are programmers out there willing to take on the task. I highly doubt they'd be just as likely to step up if there was no assurance of assets. Maybe no one steps up. I fully admit that is very likely. But the assets are there. They'll serve someone in some way and perhaps in future, they'll form the basis of something amazing.

    There are always artists out there. The S2HD staff were not the only artists with any talent. The style is already there. It's easier to emulate that now that it has already been settled upon. Back when they were still taking community contributions, they basically gave us one or two images, a half-hearted tutorial and said "here, make it look like this". They then complained that people weren't following the style set out for them (which was true... but considering what was offered as reference, it was hardly surprising). Granted there were only maybe two or three community contributors with the talent to actually help the project. To me half the issue was that they didn't (seem) to advertise it at all. The "community" was just made up of the same old people. I felt it could have been so much more if only more people were aware of the project. By the time they were set up on Facebook for instance, the project was already completely closed. I understand that to achieve the same level of quality, any continuation would almost certainly have to be "closed" as well. What bothers me is that people seem to believe that the staff we had can never be replaced. They can. The world is absolutely full of talent. As long as people are aware of it, they'll come. I know I'm not doing much to help, but I'd at least like people to stop and think before we all just let it die and go to waste. Surely at least SOMETHING can be salvaged from this? I just can't see how releasing the assets could possibly be construed as a bad thing...

    Edit: And in case it isn't clear already, a total revival of Sonic 2 HD isn't necessarily what I'm getting at (as I know that's a real stretch).
     
  10. Metal Man88

    Metal Man88

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    The S2HD artists probably would like to be credited for their art... somehow I think the constant "GIMME THE ASSETS" doesn't instill them with confidence that they would be credited.

    Instead, their art would freely appear all over the place, uncredited. Which is probably not something they want.
     
  11. Josh

    Josh

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    If the floor's open to ask questions, I've got one...

    What was going on in the credits sequence, and why the ability to spawn tons of Sonics in debug mode? Was it part of a planned online mechanic, a time trial ghost mode... or just a cool little show-off of the engine?

    Thanks, and while I have absolutely no useful skills whatsoever to contribute, I hope the project gets back off the ground! I just played the demo again, and it's impressive as ever. Whether this is all that comes of it or not, thank you all for all the work that went into it.
     
  12. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    At this point, all the arguments for or against releasing the assets have been made. I, for one, would love to see the assets released, but I understand the reluctance. If the artists don't want to do it, they don't have to, and that's their right. Further discussion is pointless and further pleading for assets will result in suspension.
     
  13. Gambit

    Gambit

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    Just because I've only seen people praise Saxman for his sound engine work I'm just gonna remind everyone that he made the level editor that I've used to put together everything. Nothing would be the way it is without that.

    Also, I'm kinda in the same boat as Vincent about working on this more. I kinda want to, but I have stuff irl I need to worry about more right now.

    The recoloring was intended for online multiplayer. The ability to recolor Sonic in the engine was something that was planned out from the beginning.
     
  14. Lapper

    Lapper

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    How about, instead of releasing the art for everyone to see, keep them, and perhaps someone may come along and say 'Hey, I/we want to realise your dream, and this is how I/we can do it'. Obviously they should need an engine first or you would have absolutely everyone asking you.

    I would probably be able to draw art in almost the same style quite confidently. If I wasn't involved with my own already, I would bloody do this.
     
  15. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    What about the art in the tech demo. That's surely the best of both worlds - the alpha sprites get to lie on a harddrive doing nothing and the community actually has something to work with.

    And no I'm not sure it was all up on that old database.
     
  16. winterhell

    winterhell

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    Completely agree. We can take as a given that the contents for GHZ/HTZ are complete. For a theoretical resurrection of the project programmers can use placeholder graphics, and artists can work on other zones. In the end just swap GHZ/HTZ placeholders with the real ones an voila, a complete game.
     
  17. zemulii

    zemulii

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    There's little incentive to do that. I wouldn't put my time into a project that relies on the assumption that the original artwork will be available when the need arises. Just what have we learned from this?
     
  18. Jayextee

    Jayextee

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    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    Guys, it has come straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak) that the assets aren't going to be released. If you want Sonic 2 HD so badly, organise and make your own damn S2HD. You're on the Internet, it's possible to do this. :V
     
  19. zemulii

    zemulii

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    I'm not going to argue about that any more, but just recall that it was in fact stated that it is up to the artists. They didn't flat out say they aren't going to be released :). So we'll just have to wait and see.
     
  20. Vincent

    Vincent

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    Volpino, you can actually see all the unused WIP art on the links posted over Facebook news weeks ago:

    http://www.s2hd.com/cl/CHARS.html
    http://www.s2hd.com/cl/HTZ-clog.html
     
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