Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Canned Karma, Mar 28, 2012.
That's not to imply that I didn't have a bigger point to make
What Stealth says is basically what lesson should be taken from this disaster, and the disasters that were the vast number of failed projects.
Sadly, few people learn such a lesson, and so the cycle of people beginning new projects to nowhere shall continue.
Assets and why the project wasn't just released last year then. I'll shed some light on these once I get home from work.
I have no idea why he is arguing against them releasing the art assets. What is wrong with just wanting to see them?
This is a real shame, I can only hope that the team are successful in what they pursue after all this, And that if there is enough people with the passion to carry on this project.
This was pretty much exactly the predicament we were in. Right up until the Alpha release it felt like everything was on a knife edge, one little thing could be enough to send things overboard and for the game never to see the light of day, and the ball was very much in LOst's court as to whether we got a release-ready Alpha build or not. It's been mentioned before (mainly by Cerulean Nights) that even so much as getting a simple asset swapped out, say, for example, a tweaked monitor sprite was a huge deal that took weeks to get fixed (if at all) and so it got to the stage where we'd have to crusade to get minor things changed - something that should be a simple file export and swap that can be accomplished by the artist. Real life commitments aside, this was a very large part of the reason why I had had enough and resigned from the project. I don't care whether it's in the professional world or for a hobby, what we had to deal with, no one should show such disrespect for another in that way.
I've seen a couple of messages here about Saxman's contribution to the project and let me just add that his sound engine was ready to go and sounding incredible. Had the 'lead programmer' been someone else, maybe we all could have enjoyed his work in this alpha - YM2612 emulation and OGG playback for the music and I'm the most sorry that he got done over in the way that he did.
Release the assets on a wiki page or something similar then let the project rest in peace.
I can't say I was ever a great supporter, S2 is probably my least favourite of the classics, but I still have great respect for the people who put time and effort into the project. S2HD deserves some reverence not the disgusting witch-hunt over LOst's involvement.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with that though - attempting to make a game and failing is a better learning experience than claiming from the beginning it can't be done and therefore doing nothing.
It's a hobby. Nothing wrong with having them. And at the end of the day, this project wasn't an impossible task - it wasn't a case of someone setting their sights too high, it was stalled due to unforeseen circumstances regarding nutty programmers and dodgy management. Politics gets in the way of everything in life.
This is very sad. For comparison in S3HD changing a single image or sound takes like 10 seconds including the project rebuild. Basically copy&replace in the project folders.
Exactly my experience outside of S2HD, and precisely how it should be too. It's basic but very common and important tasks being streamlined like that that could well ensure S3HD gets alot further through production than S2HD ever could have. Best of luck to you and the rest of the team with it.
Thanks, we'll do our best to our abilities
I guess you'll add this to Retro's Front Page news about the cancellation when all the beans are spilled?
So, why did you create this central discussion topic? It's evolved into nothing but ranting against LOst. Or was that your intention in creating this topic? Because if so, credit to you, CK. It worked.
Because the anticipated alpha finally saw release?
Although LOst is a huge prick, the DRM issue seemed to be the only one they were all fully aware of when it came to the actual product. Perhaps there was still some hope for the project to turn the situation around, but considering the amazing plethora of setbacks, perhaps this outcome we got could very well just have been the result of having sped up the potential inevitable.
Despite all the doom and gloom being talked about here and supposed lessons that we should or shouldn't learn, I am just happy we got a release out. I'm very proud to have been part of this project, even if my role was smaller compared to the lead programmer or the artists, or anyone for that matter! I do have a few thoughts though (positive and negative) that I've had since the alpha release:
- The drama over the DRM stuff was over the top rediculous. People made far too big of a deal over it. Me, I just allowed the program to run and played the damn game, because that's what matters. Yes it's a legitamit issue, and yes it was a massive screw-up. However, why should anyone blow it up like it was the end of the world? You can get around it easily. Nothing was stopping you from playing it or enjoying it. It wasn't a threat to your life. It wasn't going to bother your family, your dog, or anyone. It was a stupid inconvenience... that's it. I mean, really... what about this makes you so scared that you feel you're going to be a target if you run this program? I felt the negativity over it was uncalled for. Raise the point, and then let it be. We didn't need page after page of discussion over that one thing. Some of you need some fresh air.
- LOst did a lot of things that I didn't agree with. I even have personal beef over my sound code not being used and his threats to release this game prematurely himself if the project leaders didn't release it when they did. However, I will never say the engine he built was crap. How many of you understand the Sonic games from a technical perspective so in depth that you were able to reproduce something like this? It's pretty darn accurate. And the physics are nearly identical to that of Sonic 3. I don't care what anyone says, you're crazy if you believe this is a complete piece of garbage. Yes it could use a tune-up, but then how do you fairly judge something that's a one-level demo? I won't let my personal grudges prevent me from praising the work he did. I would say anyone saying they could do a better job than this hasn't ever built anything this complex in their entire life.
- I often avoid fan game projects because of how this one ended. I've been part of several, and not a single one of them were ever finished. Regardless, I have no regrets. This project had some extraordinary talent on it. I never would have expected a fan game project to have amount of quality that this one had. I worked along-side people that I honestly believe may work for some big-name company's some day.
- There are some people who are still upset that the direction of the project went from being an open community project to being a close project. I will say however that just because you let the public in doesn't mean it's automatically everyone's project. This was, and has always been, Vincent's project. It's like when a company goes public and people buy stock in the company -- legally it is partly your company if you own stock. However, the public does not run the company. If a company goes private again, it's that company's right to do so. Nobody has a right to say this was their project too just because people were allowed to contribute. Some will disagree with that no matter what, but that's my perspective and I'm sticking to it.
- The reason it's canceled isn't because we can't find new people... it's starting over that's a bummer. Let's be realistic here -- that's difficult to do when you've worked on something for years only to find that you now have to do half the project over from scratch. By this point, anyone could continue it, because you'd be as far as we are.
- The sound driver I wrote will be made public soon. It'll likely be closed source, because I would supply library files that programmers could use. So I don't feel my work was entirely wasted. I wrote it in such a way that it could be reused.
- Overall, S2HD is the most impressive fan game ever released! At least, that's what I think.
What about the guy who originally suggested it?
It's somewhat endearing that you feel your work was valuable enough to be released. I am clueless about programming but I hope other people find it useful.
That would basically be giving credibility to the guys who chatted with Mark Zuckerberg (and have brought a lawsuit against him) about their brilliant idea for a social networking site. Facebook belongs to Mr. Zuckerberg, not the guys who thought of it.
I don't expect it to get used by many people (if anyone at all), but I can only hope someone out there wants to use it for their game. At the very least, it's useful for VGM and GYM playback.
Legally, sure, but given this is a fangame and nobody owns the rights to the content, can we drop the legal niceties and give some credit to the guy who came up with the concept to begin with? None of this would exist without that idea and the community, I don't think it's fair to give all the credit to a few artists when at least half the forum was contributing. They just happened to be the ones that did the nicest job on the parts of the game - and that I acknowledge.
People will be upset about this starting as a community project, then going closed, you can't blame them for that. Most of them made assets for this and they just got thrown out the window. The upside is that at least the game's getting done now, next thing they hear, the project's been canceled.
Just because this project didn't work out either way doesn't mean no project will. It just needs to be done right.
Now that this has been canceled the only fan game that I have any real interest for is Sonic Fan Remix. (that's still going on right?)
I still want to know why this topic was made the way it was if everyone knew that they weren't interested in working on it anymore.
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