Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Canned Karma, Mar 28, 2012.
Seems fair to me
I should probably get my nose out of here soon, But I don't see how those things you quoted are related.
I've only been around for a couple of years (I actually signed up to comment when S2HD went all closed community) but I think that the major thing that caused the collaborative community project structure to fail was the lack of any kind of bug tracker-type project management system. Everything seemed to happen on the forums/irc, when it would probably be easier to regulate and keep track of development using a bug tracker + Git/Mercurial. Create a ticket for each bug or piece of artwork/music, keep the discussion and submissions in the ticket and when the project leads are happy, mark the ticket as closed.
Maybe Retro should have an Redmine installation or something
Now that we've got a Mercurial instance running on the Retro server, something like that would be possible. However, before that, it would have been difficult to implement a project management system that could be used by multiple community projects without exhausting the server's resources.
That would be awesome. I suggested Redmine because it by default handles multiple projects, with their own tickets, wiki etc. (and it's open source, and free, although it does run on Ruby on Rails which might be a pain).
Haha that made my day! XD
Black Squirrel's defense of LOst unable to work well due to him being the sole programmer on the team is completely null and void because he's unable to even do the task given to him because he feels that he should add his own unnecessary features instead of actually getting the engine in a releasable state, as detailed by Cerulean.
Perhaps I should have detailed that a bit more.
A little late to the party, but yeah this is nice work... really nice work! Shame we'll all probably have to wait till we're in our 60s to enjoy the full product, but I believe in it all the way for however long it takes.
Being sidetracked or purposely going out of the way to waste time is a separate issue... though you wouldn't physically be able to gravitate all over the place if you're assigned a very specific role - if you're not touching graphics, you can't make pointless shaders.
My "defense" of LOst is very simple - one man is unlikely to be an expert in every area of game programming. This is why you have programming teams. That's not to excuse him from the DRM or working in silence or maybe even stopping others from helping out, but if LOst can't do amazing graphics, the graphics will likely not be amazing - this shouldn't be a surprise. To expect all programmers to have these skills (and programmers thinking they have them all) is short sighted and bad. But you don't need a release at all to point that out.
And this release also an alpha, so again, it's to be expected that some things won't be great.
But at the same time, haven't we seen a lot of innovations that really optimize and ease development of video games on Windows? XNA and DirectX have really accelerated the "indie games" market for Windows... There are a whole lot of those games that do a lot of the things this would need to do that were done by small teams Super Meat Boy would be a good example, the game was programmed by one man, and graphics and sfx were by another.
XNA and DirectX are Windows-exclusives though. While a lot of people use these, it creates a huge limitation on what something can be ported to.
I will personally die inside if this became an Xbox exclusive anyway. :l
There will be exceptions here and there. It's fully possible for one man to produce an entire game but it shouldn't be expected because for the most part... you have teams
Even the original Sonic 2 had five programmers, and that's despite layering the game on top of a pre-existing engine.
Yeah, but right now it's pretty windows exclusive as-is. It would be more excusable if they planned to have portability but I've never seen anyone talk about it.
Defending L0st on the basis that he is not eight people and so cannot program like a team would is missing the point. It neither changes the DRM nor means the work he did was any good. I've seen L0st in action for over 10 years and this is par for the course. Telling us unrelated anecdotes about how it's okay because he's only one guy ignores that our original complaints are against the quality of his work.
On the flip side, further arguing about him is also not the point, as this is not L0st: The Game. The question should be directed to the people working on this project other than L0st, whether they plan on keeping him after he has basically caused nothing but misery for them. I think that's all most of us critical people need to know whether to expect this to get better or to just get worse.
> On the flip side, further arguing about him is also not the point, as this is not L0st: The Game.
> L0st: The Game
I actually think the better question here is....why are they so hesitant to just let us know the full details? We're not gonna go into full-on Sonic 06 rage mode if it isn't good news and if the truth isn't pretty, and we're not afraid to hear what really happened.
Canned Karma and the rest of you guys in the staff team, you gotta realize that we're mature enough (well......most of us anyways. :v: )) to be able to handle whatever news is given, and hey.....if LOst has decided to go rougue on you guys, ask around to see whoever might wanna help. Or at the least say the full truth on this thing.
Also, LOst, if you're reading this, you being stubborn and wanting things your way only has kinda thrown a wrench into things, so yeah......unless ya wanna be thrown to the sharks even more than ya have been already......prob. a good idea to fix what ya did and allow help.
Otherwise, this might get ugly for ya. :v:
Can we just rename the thread to "LOst LOl" or some such, because that's what 87% of it is; there is barely 4 pages actually discussing the release. Not to mention literally going around in circles isn't helping much.
Falk has a point. We've said pretty much all there is to say about LOst, and coming from a guy who wrote like 2500 words about the subject, it's getting pretty worn out.
They won't publicize it likely because it's embarrassing and they don't want an unmanageable amount of drama on their release thread.
Also adding a bunch of dots doesn't make your point stronger, it just makes you look like a noob.
Two points that seem to have been lost here should probably be reiterated before the thread switches from talking about the quality of the engine- LOst has been at things like this for many, many years, enough so this "improvement" some people seem to be expecting should already have occurred, yet to hear him talk you'd think he were extremely close second only to Naka, who he seems to regard as God. Also, the "LOst" isn't an entire team" argument, which has been made as if to say that the rest of the S2HD team forced him into that position, is completely invalid because this was LOst's own choice. The last project that he was involved with that I'm aware of, he did this exact thing- usurp exclusive control of a programming position that not only was meant for more than one person, but in that case, actually already belonged to more than one person, by starting over completely and hoarding the code to the point where the other programmers didn't have it and were outright refused it when they offered to help work out complications
If you had known LOst for as long as and in the capacity that some people have, you would see that there is absolutely no basis for defense here
Separate names with a comma.