Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Canned Karma, Mar 28, 2012.
I want to work on this project.
Okay, so there's not much I can add to all the drama that's already been said. DRM sucks, it's even more retarded than usual in this case, and its ridiculous that it's a big part of what's been holding this fan project up. Now, I know people have suggested the artists leaving and finding another programmer, but why the fuck hasn't anybody suggested we just get a bunch of other artists and programmers together and do it all to the original intent? There quite really is nothing from stopping any of us from making a competing Sonic 2 HD, or going even further beyond that.
Its just fucking hilarious that we're all taking all this time and energy to criticize the S2HD team in much the same way we all criticize Sonic Team and DIMPS, yet we're stopping there just because its a fan project. Hypocrisy at its finest from both sides. Just because its a fan project means we need to respect it enough not to make a copy? Bullshit. If we can create all sorts of Sonic clones and remakes from official sources, what makes the unofficial ones different? Damnit Retro, when we find something to bitch about with Segas games we start tearing them apart, 'fixing' them, and remaking them, there's no difference here.
And for fucks sake, all of you, on both sides, get off the "Physics/graphics not pixel perfect, raaaagggeee~ " thing that you all get so stuck on. Be willing to tweak the graphics and physics in ways that make them BETTER. Theres a key word there that everyone, fans and SEGA, seem to miss all the freaking time. The physics changed between Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K, as did the graphical style. There was nothing wrong with that then, and there isn't anything wrong with doing it now. Street Fighter 2 HD Remix is probably the true inspiration for this game, far beyond that Death Egg pic, and they changed up plenty. Some levels had graphics changed and altered for more depth, the characters had extra detail, and startling enough they altered and changed a number of the games mechanics to improve the game. There is nothing wrong with it, and it still looks and feels so much like the game it is re-making without feeling like a waste of time and money. There is nothing 'sacred' about the games, they're just games and need to be treated with the recognition that, hey, maybe those guys 20 years ago didn't know what they were doing either.
.......an online activation server, constantly running, for a remake of a 20 year old game that you don't own any rights to. This is beyond hypocrisy, this is outright disgusting. The fact this was even considered should have been reason enough to throw LOst off the team, never mind anything else.
Which is what irks me about the whole thing. Why didn't the rest of the team do or say anything when LOst refused to cooperate? Who's the project manager? I can understand the urgency of the release, but... I don't know. I read some stuff Sonica said a while ago and I got the vibe that there were problems within the staff — and though some members told me otherwise, it still worries me the most about the project.
I would ask that posts hilighting code and other tidbits from the game be trashed immediately. Some people got banned or warned for stealing other artwork, editing another fangame, etc. This is publicizing code that, for all intents and purposes, was supposed to be private. I don't advocate anything happen to these members, just their posts. We do not own Sonic or Sonic the Hedgehog 2, but the code used is still private property.
I think too much emphasis has been put on the encryption issue. And while it's perfectly legitimate criticism and something I feel should probably be changed, it almost entirely misses the bigger picture: we have this game that has just been released, and the graphics are stunning. The physics are nearly identical, and it you get all of this stuff in one package. It's far more work than any one person could do alone, and mind you, few could do this well. I'm celebrating this release! It's not just because I'm a team member, but it's also because I've seen the blood, sweat, and tears these people have shed to get this far. I am impressed, and I know all the people I've shown it to so far are also highly impressed!
We've heard a lot of criticism on these forums aimed at maybe one or two things. But I'm curious to know what things you like about it best, because that counts equally! Please let me know!
Dude, its their shit. Why does anyone here have a right to tell them what to do? If they want to make you update you're game to play it, then they CAN. Don't like it? Make your own Sonic 2 HD and release it, no one's stopping you. Sure, I don't agree with some of the things l0st is doing, but it's still THEIR project. THEY decided to go in that art direction. I barely listen to 10 percent of fans of my fangames, why should they listen to theirs? If you cater to everyone, nothing is ever going to get finished. Personally, I think they went the more flash looking art style way because it would be far easier to animate down the road, making the project get completed in less than 20 years.
Now I know some faggoty ass is going to call me out on this, but it's still their game, and L0st has every right to keep his programming/anything to himself if he wants, its HIS work.
This is my opinion. While I think that LOst did was kinda a dick move to both the S2HD team and all those people who reverse-engineered the original games, technically they can do whatever they want with it (unless SEGA decides to intervene).
Anyway, I liked the graphics, but it was hard to focus on Sonic because he blended with the rest of the graphics too well. When I built up speed I felt my eyes just going parallel.
Also, music was top notch, (aside the boss' oddities). I hope you guys sort out the problems with LOst and finish this game.
I liked the title screen, the title music, I loved Tails' sprites, though I have a nitpick with his eyes when he's accelerating not turning angry (It makes him look kind of lifeless) and I love Sonic's extra animations. My biggest problem is the boss music being cut short and feeling very half-assed because of it, and I think the drill machine needs to look more reflective - like metal - but it looks nice otherwise, I love Robotnik's goggles, they look appropriate, and I found it exciting to stop and look at everything, like the trees, although they move a little unnaturally.
Sonic 2 HD Community Edition sounds cool; I'm on-board. Dunno if we'd get any programmers interested in it though. Should we just randomly make a topic somewhere for it and start posting art?
Hey genius, I know you're all anti-criticism or whatever because of how butthurt you get when someone has the slightest gripe with your work, but DRM in a fangame is kind of illegal, not to mention massive hypocrisy considering the sources.
It just means that there is a version of S2HD running on the server side to make sure that nobody would mess with leaderboards.
Those aren't goggles, they're shades...
There's lots of programmers out there, I know I'd personally be interested in programming it, mainly as a challenge.
But remember, everyone working on it is gonna look like a massive whiner :/. Imagine if Bethesda made Skyrim, and maybe 5% of fans didn't like it so they set out making an entirely new Skyrim. Not only would that 95% think they are wasting their time, but as the old saying goes, "You can't understand a system until you try to change it". That means as the Skyrim Community Project got worked on more and more, the team members would begin to understand why the original decisions were made, likely ending in the project's cancellation. Now I don't want to say that this S2HD Community Edition won't happen, or that it won't get finished, but I am saying it seems it would annoy more people than it would give joy to.
Why would Robotnik wear shades?
He always wore shades.
So basically, you agree with Hez's point on "If you don't like it, do it yourself" but think people who actually take that advice are whiners? So basically, you think people who don't like the project's direction are whiners. Gee, thanks for the massive disrespect there buddy.
I like most of the project's direction but I miss it being a community project.
I always thought those were goggles.
I think that LOst should just go and finally post on why he chose to do all this stuff, explain things from his point of view.
I mean, LOst, unless ya wanna end up being basically put over an open fire and roasted entirely by both the forum goers here AND your fellow staff team mates, prob. a good idea to at least clear things up a bit. I mean, seriously, ya prob. already saw the last.....several pages of shenanigans about your actions, so prob. best to just come out with the truth. Even if only to finally clear things up.
Hopefully ya can at least be reasonable here, because there's quite a lot of guys here that are kinda ticked off about what happened. :v:
.. yeah, no. Seriously, if anything, take this whole thing a lesson. There's a reason we have History classes.
Yes, in case you've forgotten, we've tried this once. It was called "Sonic 2 HD".
This kind of misses the point. LOst has desperately tried to force an 'I' into 'team', and it's been holding back the progress of S2HD for some time. That's not fair to his teammates.
LOst's draconian DRM ideas (and implementation of the compromise!) are massively hypocritical, given he didn't reverse-engineer Sonic games by himself, and it is their reverse-engineering that enabled him to write the engine to be as accurate as it is. Not only that, but considering that the engine is based off of reverse-engineered code that he did not create, DRM protecting it is, by my reckoning, illegal. Someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong. The game also assumes you accepted a license agreement, when there isn't one to accept. Not sure how illegal that is, but it sure is retarded.
Finally, yes, Sonic 2 HD is their project. But it wasn't always that way. It's understandable that people be disappointed in a somewhat entitled manner. To some, this Sonic 2 HD is as much their project as it is TeamS2HD's, considering that without enough initial interest, Sonic 2 HD might have just sputtered and died a long time ago.
This is why, THIS time, keep the guys on staff accountable, and keep info clear enough to work with.
Also, if we WERE to do another HD game, why not a different game?
Sonic 1 HD, anyone? :v:
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