Sonic 2 HD

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Canned Karma, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. JordanFreeman

    JordanFreeman

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    So far, I think this is brilliant. Sure, the Alpha isn't perfect, but from what I can tell it succeeds at taking Sonic 2 and making it 'HD'. There could be some additional animations / details I'd like to see added (maybe animate the flowers in the background of EHZ for example) but that is me being a real nitpick. As long as the physics are made a little better and the quality we have seen so far remains throughout, I can see this being a fantastic game. I can't wait to see how zones like Mystic Cave and Metropolis look. Oh and by the way, Avast doesn't seem to see this as a virus for me, which is a plus. I'll not comment much on all this business with LOst, other than say that having DRM in a fan game is hilarious. The concept of DRM in commercial games is ridiculous enough as it is.

    Also, what's up with the shortened boss music? It's really noticeable.
     
  2. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    You're allowed to find it offensive, but it wasn't suposed to be, honestly. Everyone takes time on their projects, but I can't let it be the judge of my opinion, take for example those horrible fangames that people usualy do when a new Sonic game is released "Sonic Colors 2D", "Sonic Generations 2D", etcetera... They probably spent a lot of time in their projects as well, but it doesn't make 'em particularly impressive nor good. I'm not saying that S2HD is bad, not at all. I find the initiative nice and admire how you guys were able to stood 'till this point so far. You probably done more than 2/3 of the whole community, I'm not particularly good at beeing sensible to people, but I don't try to be arrogant, trust me. But yeah, I guess I could've expressed my point in a different tone so here goes a quick correction:

    S2HD isn't bad, but I was expecting way more for a "reimagination" or a remake with the tools to recreate the original as it could've been if done nowadays. The engine needs some work as well some animations (like Sonic hand in the title screen, it's just weird). For a reimagination it could've been more creative. What pisses me off is that you guys have some great ideas for design (take a look at the archives in the concept art forum) to improve and make it even better and full of life, and you guys are spending this time and talent only opening the sprite in illustrator, resizing it and redrawing it, as it was. That's what bugs me, having a talented and competent team and working in something so simple and common while you could, like I shown in my previous post, reimagine the whole graphical style of the game and beeing only faithfull on the level design itself, like Monkey Island did.

    The problem with 2D games nowadays is that, if they're not "sprited", they look lifeless and empty that's why for example the new Rayman game (Rayman Origins) tries to make their levels very stylish and with a lot of depht into it (You barely see straight lines, most of the tiles are in a beat 'em up view) or the remakes of Monkey Island like I previously mentioned, which are more faithfull to the previous title in terms of backgrounds, still tries to give a new athmosphere for the game also remaking the bgs in the art scheme that the series adopted after its third game. If the process was similar in those games as it was in S2HD the result would be way less impressive.

    So unfortunelly all of the work you guys have done in S2HD was creating a Sonic 2 for PC with MSSA filter applyied. It sucks, but on the bright side, you only have Emerald Hill done so far, and if you would take my advice in serious consideration (which I doubt, of course) that would be the only real lost, and the only thing that would need to be redone. So you ask me, what should you do. I would say to be creative, be faithfull to the original level design but play with the tiles, play with the depht and athmosphere of the game. Put some light effects, integrate new things I dunno, like put a giantic tree in the background of Emerald Hill or a sunflower field on the foreground (to keep the flow of the background), add some vines in the tiles or hanging from the trees, make some beautiful waterfalls with Sonic 4's distortion effect, add some tiles to the background or foreground to give the impression that there are other paths to be taken (Sonic Generations did a lot of that)... Things like that. Make your game alive, Think outside the box you're limiting yourself and your game to a MSSA filter and not a proper HD Version. If SEGA would release a Sonic 2 HD Version do you think it would be this? They would probably throw light effects, textures, and everything that I said earlier on like they did in Sonic 4.

    Your game has no life into it, no athmosphere. And I'm not the only one that think that since I recieved PMs here on Retro after my post and some calls in MSN congratulating me and saying that they agree with me. I won't of course give any names because if those prefered to contact me instead of agreeing with me on the thread they probably have their own reasons to do that and I'll respect it. So I'm biting the bullet here and giving you my personal notes and observations from a fangame developer to another and mostly from an artist that have work with game development professionaly. Don't desconsider it and don't think I'm trying to be rude or don't give credits to your work, I'm arrogant sometimes and I agree with that, but don't let it invalidate my argument. It's your call to make an ordinary game or extraordinary, a Sonic 2 with MSSA filter or a proper Sonic 2 Remake in HD.

    But whatever your choice is, at least change that pallete on Sonic, seriously it looks terrible.
     
  3. SF94

    SF94

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    I guess your anti-virus software is just a little slow on the uptake. =P
    Also, hi Whackjood.
     
  4. Cerulean Nights

    Cerulean Nights

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    I honestly don't find any of these criticisms offensive. We made a game that we are proud of, and nothing you guys can complain about will change that fact as much as you'd like to think you can. 99% of people agree this is the best looking Sonic game that they've ever played, and you're more than welcome to disagree. It's just a shame you aren't able to do it with a bit more tact.
     

  5. Pardon, but from what I've read, more like.. 70%

    EDIT: BTW, I like how L0st does not even comment on anything.


    <GerbilSoft[derp]> guess you could say.. 8)
    <GerbilSoft[derp]> ...he LOst The Game
    <GerbilSoft[derp]> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
     
  6. steveswede

    steveswede

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    So what. The last time I checked this was their interpretation of Sonic 2. You could always do your own version if this is harder to swallow than razorblades.
     
  7. Cerulean Nights

    Cerulean Nights

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    You're right, I suppose if you're counting Retro, who have a tendency of skewing any percentage down that extra 29% alone, it could well be more like 70%. Thank you for counting it for me though, as I don't have the free time to do it myself. I have a question for you. Why are you getting so worked up over a game you don't have to play? Is it not simply easier to go back and play the original if you prefer it more? We don't owe you anything, and if I tarnished your childhood memories of Sonic then I personally apologize to you, and feel terrible that I could hurt another human being in such a way.
     
  8. tokumaru

    tokumaru

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    Guys, I can easily disable my anti-virus' realtime protection... can't you do the same? This is the problem with today's computers/software, they want to control you instead of letting you control them. Anyway, I can't imagine any anti-virus software not having an option to be turned off, this is absurd. It might not be obvious at first, but look hard and I'm sure you'll find a way to disable them temporally to play the game. If you can't find a way, use Google, someone else has probably found out how to do it.

    Now back to the game. For some reason the 64-bit version shows only black, but I know it's working because all the sounds are there. The 32-bit version plays fine, and it runs full speed on my modest laptop (Core i5 @2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, Intel HD Graphics). Can't go fullscreen for whatever reason. It looks great and all, but the overall experience was a bit underwhelming, because at the end of the day, this is just plain Sonic 2. Nothing about this felt "amazing", it was just Sonic 2 with slightly prettier graphics. I'm not particularly excited to see the rest of the game redone, and at the rate this project is progressing I most likely won't anyway.

    Just to make it clear: I don't hate the project or think it sucks, I just found it a little bland. Considering how hard everyone has worked on this, it just doesn't seem worth it. Too much work for too little payoff.
     
  9. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

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    Are you kidding me? Clearly you haven't been following this project very closely. The game graphics are NOT upscaled, modified contents - it's original assets created from scratch with the goal of mimicking the original look based off of the original game and the original concept artwork - only at a much higher resolution. This project was never about fully reimagining Sonic 2, but recreating it faithfully in a higher resolution.

    It's blatantly obvious that you have absolutely no idea what the goal of this project was.
     
  10. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    And I'm the arrogant prick. Also 99%? You really think that Sonic 2 Anti-Aliased Version is really better looking than Sonic Fan Remix, Mecha Madness, Sonic GDK's project, Emerald Ties Crossing Fates, Sonic Time Twisted, etcetera? Wow are you that blind by your pride? I mean, it's cool that you've busted your ass off to put this thing together, but seriously? 99%? Or even 70%? For the same game that we've seen 20 years ago?
    But I guess you're right, this game is really gorgeous, I mean I took a screenshot and just stare it for the last I dunno, twenty minutes or so...

    [​IMG]

    Look, isn't that just beauti-- Oh wait a minute.

    It's just a shame you aren't able to accept criticism with a bit more tact.


    It's clear that you're the one not following this project very closely.
    I remember very well seeing the developers resize the tiles in the original game and draw on the top of it with illustrator.

    It's blatantly obvious that you have absolutely no idea what the goal of this discussion is.
     
  11. CorralSummer

    CorralSummer

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    In my opinion the art style is perfect for an HD version of Sonic 2. The style that a few people seem to want would fit better in a project more like Sonic Generations.
    The way it is now you can clearly recognize everything as what it was in the original, but clearly more than a simple trace was used. From what I see they're preserving the style of the original but adding more too it. I have no idea what a MSSA filter is, but most filters make things look blurry and this doesn't look blurry at all. Plus just look at Sonic, he looks more like the official art than the in game sprite.


    By the way, how long will it take to make the rest of the game? I'm not expecting anything for a while now, but I don't want to wait five years for the rest of the game, at that point I think I'd lose interest.


    EDIT: Eew, that picture looks ugly P3DR0. I think you should get glasses if you think that looks like Sonic 2 HD.
     
  12. Steven M

    Steven M

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    Is Sonic Fan Remix still a thing or did they put that project on ice?
     
  13. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

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    Yes - they used tiles as a guide. And, hurrrr, why the hell wouldn't they? The person I quoted was trying to say that they simply upscaled tiles, slapped some paint on it and called it a day. And he sounds like a complete moron, as do you at the moment. The content used in S2HD is as much created from scratch as can be. The project goal is exactly as I stated, plain and simple. Your screenshot looks like shit, and you know it. The game looks nothing like that. Similar? At a glance, obviously - the goal of the project IS about maintaining a faithful recreation. Or, uh, did you miss that part? Again?

    Quit your crybaby whining crying bullshit. You didn't pay for or contribute to anything. If a shitty, upscaled and horribly filtered Sonic 2 is what you want - then GTFO of the thread and carry on with your emulator. I suggest - no - I challenge you to reproduce what the S2HD team has. If you can do much better - then you are free to release an OMG AMAZEBALLS MUCH BETTER THAN S2HD version of the game by yourself. Owait...that's never going to happen, because you're full of shit and complaining just to complain.
     
  14. Sparks

    Sparks

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    I'd rather this kind of talent go towards an original fan game. However, Sonic 2 HD seems to be a more strict recreation of the original title, than a complete (keyword there) re-imagining of the visuals. This isn't a bad thing though, I love seeing the original content in higher quality and with more frames. Is it the most creative thing? Debatable, but I don't think creativity is goal of this project anyway.

    For me, that title belongs to Generations. 99% is a bit of an exaggeration I'd say, since "best looking" is clearly subjective.
     
  15. ancara

    ancara

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    Wow, things got harsh and crazy rather fast.

    I think its best said that if ya feel dislike for shenanigans, at least say what you dislike nicely or reasonably.

    Or at least be like Frozen Nitrogen. :v:
     
  16. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    Last time I checked resizing the tiles and redrawing it on top of it, it's pretty much the oposite of "created from the scratch".
    Son, the goal of the project isn't "plain" and "simple". As the readme file says it's a "reimagination" of Sonic 2 as could be if it were made nowadays using the tools avaliable on these days that's the goal. Problem is there is no "reimagination", it's the same thing as it was 20y ago, also if the best we can do with the assets avaliable today I believe I've traveled back in time to 2003 and barely noticed.

    Why are you so mad over a criticism, broseph? Chillax, we're discussing a fangame in here no one is drowning any puppies or shooting jews. Calm down, or you'll have an HeartAttack (ha, that was cleaver, wasn't it?).
     
  17. Steven M

    Steven M

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    If you get served a shitty meal at a restaurant you're not allowed to complain unless you can cook better yourself. Likewise nobody is allowed to critique movies unless they've won an Oscar themselves.
     
  18. HeartAttack

    HeartAttack

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    If you'd been following the project, you'll learn it was NEVER about "reimagining" the game so much visually. Perhaps they shouldn't have used the term "reimagine" in the Read Me? Fuck the Read Me - the project goal has been plain and simple from the start and for anyone to expect anything other than what they gave us is absolutely delusional. What were you expecting? Anything and everything they've released has shown us EXACTLY what they were working toward, and that's exactly what they gave us. What do you think the other demos and occasional art was for? Do you think they released it because it meant "this is what we're NOT going to do?". Uh, no.

    ...and no, using original assets as a TEMPLATE is considered creating from scratch. Again, for the millionth time, they never simply took old assets, upscaled then slapped paint on them. They used old tiles as a guide and created new content over it, all from scratch. Using items as guides and simply reusing items are two very different things and you obviously don't grasp the concept, son.

    That's not my point. My point is that if you're going to complain, do so with a valid concern. Spreading blatant, untrue bullshit is not a valid critique. He can think the game looks and plays as terrible as he wants but when he blames it on false reasons then he has no complaint. Saying things like the team simply upscaled old content and reused it or that they have "no imagination" is garbage, given the project goals and execution.
     
  19. NioZero

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    The game is really awesome, I played the 64bits version in fullHD with 60fps and it looks very beatiful.

    I guess physics can improve, but the graphics are ok, I really like the extra frame animation.

    I wish not to wait a whole year or more to see the chemical plant zone demo or the whole game complete. I suppose the speed of the development will be more faster considering that the engine and the methodology is "almost" complete from what I see.
     
  20. Stealth

    Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    Says the guy who registered to the board that started the project as a "Community Project" at a later year than the project's birth, and who's defending the project as-is when two of the original primary goals for the project that turned into THIS were:

    1.) Open-ended platform for creating other "HD" 2D fangames with Sonic 2 as a basis [Which is now tightly-packed DRM on what amounts to traced-over, flatly-smoothed upscaled Sega/Sonic Team graphic property and a haphazardly-translated version of other people's reverse-engineering and notes of other people's work]

    2.) [​IMG]
    This is the image that initially inspired the discussion that led to the "Community Project" that turned into this "Sonic2HD". Look at the grit and detail. Where is that now? The graphics being used in this project are just bland smoothing of the original low-res assets. I guess that and making them super-shiny are what count now? That's certainly not the impression I got when this whole thing first started

    I hadn't exactly intended to say anything regarding all of this, but you, sir, seem to have pissed me off, randomly butting into the middle of something and starting to tell everyone "how it is" like you know. Apparently you don't. Some of us do happen to know where this came from. You may be willing to settle for less, but some people actually have fair reason to be disappointed with this. It's devolved from what it started as, and no amount of parroting what anyone may insist it is NOW is going to change that
     
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