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Sonic 2 Development Lore

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimes, Apr 5, 2023.

Is it Miles or Tails?

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  2. Tails

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  3. Both

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  1. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    Food for thought: here's a list of zones we absolutely don't have any trace of Yamaguchi art for:
    What's interesting is the zones in bold all have one thing in common: they were all in the Nick Arcade build. And we also know Oil Ocean was one of the first zones that was ever worked on. So is it possible that those zones got made prior to Yamaguchi drawing concept art of all these zones? Obviously it had concept art in some fashion, but maybe it simply wasn't in the same style as the others we have or wasn't done by Yamaguchi.
     
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  2. Fleeksteek

    Fleeksteek

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    It has been stated that Hidden Palace was one of the first zones worked on.
     
  3. GoldeMan

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    This is an interesting piece I haven't seen mentioned before. Also worth nothing that of those listed zones, Emerald Hill, Hidden Palace, and the Desert Zone (Sand Shower, or whatever you'd like to call it) were the first to have screenshots for (mock-ups), at least according to the Wiki they're from early '92 but I don't know the exact timeframe.
     
  4. Blastfrog

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    In addition, there's plenty of evidence in the game itself to back that up. The second palette line is almost identical to S1 GHZ's second palette line, only difference IIRC being one of the indices was changed to the darkest yellow so that S2's remapped rings would look correct. Also, the NA build's first palette line for the underwater palette conforms exactly to Sonic's palette structure from S1, meaning that Tails looks all messed up underwater. Lastly, the monitors are all weird, such as the Tails 1-up being present, which the same ID is used instead for the shield in S1. There may be more anecdotal evidence, but that's all that I'm aware of.
     
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  5. RazoZen

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    Made a replica of the early Tails sprite

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
  6. Nik Pi

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    Looking at Tails' sprite I start thinking that it was a bit.. unaccurate. You know, too much black. BUT ass I think, half of this black is a dark red (you can see shoe from final, and there where are was dark red in final is black). Also, gray colours looks like taken from Mania. I think that this is printer issues.
    Anyway, here is my try
    tolik.png
     
  7. astroblema

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    That Tails sprite is both ugly and beautiful
     
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  8. Nik Pi

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    He is ugly because it was wrong palette.
    tolik.PNG
    This colours are from.... Tails' special stage palette
    pal.png
    And comparing to this picture:
    proxy.png
    It looks close to this, but more.. cold? Idk
     
  9. RDNexus

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    Now, only Amy's potential proto-sprite for CD seems to be left to be unearthed ^^"
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    I don't think you can reliably pick out the darker tones.
     
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  11. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Judy Totoya said the colors in those pics are not correct, they are different tones owing to the poor printer at STI. The purpose of those drawings was to help artists set dot placements, not to dictate the palette:

    https://twitter.com/judy_totoya/status/1650419603724697600

    "The data was immediately discarded, so it is a mystery why it is still there.
    The printer at STI did not have good performance, so the colors are quite different.
    The printout is only for the programmer to get the coordinate data and size, not for checking the exact color."
     
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  12. Nik Pi

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    SCD510_palmtreepanic.png
     
  13. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Ohh... Something's already out. And...ahh...thank goodness they updated the sprite... ^^"
     
  14. TheRedEye

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    Craig Stitt said in an interview that the Hidden Palace and Oil Ocean backgrounds (internally referred to as "B-scroll") were done by Yamaguchi (he also did Metropolis' background fwiw)
     
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  15. DefinitiveDubs

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    Yes, however he told me that the ORIGINAL background for Oil Ocean was done by himself, and to quote him, it sucked, and so Yamaguchi completely redrew it. Given how HPZ also had a completely different background at first, I'm guessing it was the same deal there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
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  16. Childish

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    Speaking of backgrounds what's up with Wood Zone's? It's under the layout instead of in the background layer... No other zone in the game does this and I'm wondering if this might be a leftover from an earlier point in development. Unless I'm completely wrong, the concept of branches existed in the 90s right? I'm guessing wood zone was fiddled around with in a branch and later was added to the main branch with the intention of finishing it if time allowed. I'm thinking that at somepoint, they for whatever reason, wanted to handle the backgrounds differently and toyed around with the idea before deciding to not bother. idk it seems a bit convoluted but I have no idea why the background would be like that, possibly it's just a remittent of a fancy background effect. In the final the $02 level slot has different scrolling data right, what the hell does that have to do with this?
     
  17. LockOnRommy11

    LockOnRommy11

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    It’s quite possible that the game started off similar in style to Sonic 1 sprite-wise. That early Tails wouldn’t be amiss as a Sonic 1 character, with the darker palette.

    They may have brightened Tails up, in part, to avoid the muddy look that an RF connected Mega Drive would give off. Dark colours may merge together making a very unpleasant look overall. It may have made details of the character indistinguishable from other parts of the sprite.

    This is all conjecture, however, but food for thought.
     
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  18. I'll post Yamaguchi's full message here for anybody who hasn't seen it - the tweet Cooljerk posted is only the second half pertaining to the pixel art.

    Then, as to why these colours (not the exact ones from the STI printer, but this palette) are used on Sega promotional materials and merchandise in 1992 and 1993:

    While Yamaguchi doesn't fully remember, I will say that if Tails' darker orange and peach colouration here is just a test for what Sonic 1's palette can represent which was "immediately discarded", I'm not sure why it appears on SO MUCH artwork produced by Sega of America itself. It's one thing for an early test palette to be sent to licensees for cartoons, figures, and curious stuff like "Sega buses", but earlier versions of Sega of America's promotional art for Sonic 2 also use it (thanks to @SpindazhJx for posting these):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The version with a more yellow-ish tan snout and chest (which I thought was from DiC originally, but maybe no?) and white tail tips was included on banners when the game was actually released too (@WiseGuySonic posted this):

    [​IMG]

    And... why is it in the December 1992 Japanese Mega Drive Koushiki Guide Book?

    Why would Sega even commission all these artists to draw materials based on a test palette that was immediately discarded during development - it doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something (the timeframe for "immediately", probably, or if Yamaguchi "created a new colour palette" and it was still orange and peach, but different shades). And the Japanese material that also used it... uh... SoJ just sent the wrong reference material by mistake? I dunno.

    EDIT: I asked Yamaguchi, and he states that Sega of Japan did not have a department to "properly manage the characters" either in 1992. The promotional materials in Japan were not standardized either, so they may have been using older material? In 1993, SoJ employees began checking things themselves.

    For the timeline, Tails' final colours would have been finished in December 1991 or January 1992, he says. His early colours were from two or three days after the earliest drawings of Tails were made, which I've shared before.

    So Sega of America, in late April 1992, were sending DiC materials from December 1991 or January 1992 at the latest. They were also sending it to other licensees. The pixel art will be from around December 1991 or January 1992...

    SoA...? W-what were you doing? And... merchandisers in Japan too?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
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  19. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    How is it that Yamaguchi and Yasuhara can so casually answer questions and interact with fans about some aspects of Sonic 2, but not others? Ask them about Tails, and they give you everything they know about how SEGA handled character creation 30 years ago. Ask about lost levels, and they zip their lip.
     
  20. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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