Sonic 2 Adventure Edition

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by MainMemory, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    That's fixing to change really soon. He's been showing off a lot of stuff in the Gen. Screenshot thread. Including minibosses
     
  2. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    http://shc.sonicresearch.org/entry/6
     
  3. TimpZ

    TimpZ

    20
    0
    0
    Sweden
    Speedrunning, learning ASM??
    I found this hack through the hacking contest. Perhaps funnily enough this was one of the hacks I enjoyed the most as it brought an interesting new mechanic into play.

    Here's my full playthrough if you're interested http://www.twitch.tv/primat91/b/445267312?t=111m25s

    If you're striving for accuracy with Sonic Adventure, there's a couple things you could adress off the top of my head:

    • In SA spindashes are completely charged sometime 0.3-0.5 seconds after you start to hold the spindash button and both when rolling and running you decelerate to a max ground speed. This means that optimal spindashing charges for 0.1-0.2 seconds then immediately unrolls and spindashes again for 0.1-0.2 seconds. You know a lot more of how spindashing works in this game than me but I can tell this is far from how the mechanics work ingame
    • In later releases such as GC and 360 you actually have 2 spindash buttons with a jump button in the middle. An option to inverse the controls would be nice.
    • Sonics spindashes doesn't have an upside-down flag, but it's possible to spindash while running on the roof. This looks weird if nothing else because it's not mirrored.
    • It's incredibly easy to fall off the plane in SC. While you could make sonic unmoveable and add a gun of some kind to cater to the original, I'd be very pleased if you just made the plane move faster (or even make it possible to stand in one of the corners, leaving the controller and not dying during the course of the zone)
    • Make score tally's skippable

    I did encounter a few glitches, but nothing really noteworthy other than mysteriously having to replay 2 zones after gaming over. Not the regular "main" missions but rather the ones where you collect 50 rings. Might be related to me loading a savestate at one point though. Another thing was that I homing attacked into an enemy while being in the twirl animation (in Metro when bouncing on the yellow sidesprings) which resulted in me hovering inside the enemy for a second while twirling and then dying.

    I still haven't had time to play through the missions or Tails story. If I do it in the near future I'll edit this post with my thoughts.

    All in all I had a blast playing this and I commend you for making it!
     
  4. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    If you've been following the screenshot thread you'll know that I've been implementing Knuckles' Emerald hunting gameplay, and that it looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    I am nearly finished with the implementation, but before I go placing Emeralds around the levels, I want to hear your opinions on whether I should use Act 1 or Act 2 for each Zone. Act 2s may be more difficult because I'll have to disable the bosses, but I have to do that for WFZ anyway.

    Since it looks like I will be implementing Tails' proper racing gameplay after all, you may also suggest acts for him.
     
  5. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,210
    423
    63
    Depending on how fiddly taking out the bosses are, I'd go for two acts, so Knuckles' gameplay remains the same length as Sonic's, unless you plan on making specialized areas for Knuckles' gameplay.

    You managed to find a way to make CPU Sonic work then?
     
  6. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    I'm only going to do one act per zone.
     
  7. Jimmy Hedgehog

    Jimmy Hedgehog

    Member
    1,728
    8
    18
    England - Slough
    Getting the motivation to continue old projects
    Act 2s tend to be a bit more complex so maybe that for hunting, and Act 1s for the races I'd say. Wondering how that'll work for places like Metropolis though, for hunting at least.
     
  8. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,210
    423
    63
    In that case I could argue against going for a specific order and more just choosing whichever one fits his gameplay setup better. A linear stage with few alternate paths and several 'no backtracking' points wouldn't work very well for treasure hunting but a smaller more wide open level you can freely roam without getting lost would be ideal. This arguably fits SA1 more anyway since his levels were sometimes the first or last part of Sonic's routes.

    You likely need to edit a few levels with blockades and motion specific progression (eg. the earthquakes in Hill Top or the closing doorways in that and multiple other levels like Metropolis).
     
  9. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    I think the only issue I have with this hack is that you are confining Tails and Knuckles to the same acts as Sonic, and letting that restrict you. Personally I'd have Sonic retain the entirely original acts, have Tails retain them as well for he most part, with some slight alterations if need be for Sonic to race him on some parts... Knuckles should have completely new 1 acts that are all open area, and NO goalpost... simply get the emeralds to finish the level.

    Just my two cents.
     
  10. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    I have a 'back' monitor to avoid points where backtracking is impossible.

    Edit: KingofHarts are you offering to design said levels for me?
     
  11. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    I've gained a bit of experience doing said task for TheInvisibleSun. Spring Yard Act 1 in his hack is an example of my level layout skill. I'd certainly be up for it if you'd like.

    EDIT: I will make it clear though that it's not my strongest suit. TIS seemed happy enough with my attempt though. I'll do a little work with EHZ for a Knuckles layout, and you can let me know what you think.
     
  12. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    How exactly do you plan to design a hunting level without being able to place Emeralds?
     
  13. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    I'll just use a placeholder, just as I did for TIS... in your case, perhaps just an Eggman monitor, since those aren't used in game. I'll label them and point them out to you. If this isn't sufficient, I can always create a new object definition for the sole purpose of the layout creation.

    EDIT BELOW

    OR I can just place an emerald monitor as a placeholder instead... Forgive me I was aiming for the lazy man's way out. :D With Triad's mappings loader now fully functional, that would be a piece of cake though...

    ALSO I made note of some things playing through Adventure 1:
    - Tails races against Eggman in some levels... perhaps instead of a modified layout (We are looking at you, Mystic Cave Zone) you could just have a race against Eggman, who moves in the background?
    - Knuckles DOES have the ability to dig in Adventure 1... after obtaining the Shovel Claw. That said it may not be necessary to implement... also too much of a headache to do so as well.
    - Knuckles has the ability to lift objects. Will you want to implement this? If so, I've already begun work on such a feature for my own hack, that I'm also sending to flamewing. Would you want to implement such a thing for Knuckles as well? I can send what little bit I've started on and we could go from there.
     
  14. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    If you're using SonLVL you can put these files in the ini folder and add these lines to obj.ini:
    Code (Text):
    1. [DF]
    2. name=Chaos Emerald
    3. art=Emerald art.bin
    4. artcmp=Uncompressed
    5. mapasm=Emerald map.asm
    6.  
    If you're using SonED2, I don't know if I can help you.
     
  15. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    I may have Tails race Eggman in Wing Fortress, but the others will definitely be Sonic.
    I have no idea how I'd delimit the areas where digging is and is not possible, also you'd only be able to dig at all in EHZ and ARZ anyway.
    Everyone has the ability to pick up objects in Adventure, but it's nearly useless in normal gameplay, and would be even more useless in Sonic 2, unless I specifically add gimmicks that require you to pick up objects. Maybe if I was going to have a Chao Garden, but that sounds like it would be rather difficult.
    [hr]
    I was thinking about Sonic Adventure's level and boss distribution between characters. I probably won't cut out levels from Tails and Knuckles' games because you guys probably wouldn't like that, but I'm thinking that I should move bosses to their own acts so that everyone can fight them (and also make a boss rush mode easier), and maybe I could make it so that you only fight four bosses with each character during the course of the game.
     
  16. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    On the note about digging, I'd imagine that while difficult, it would be doable.

    If we are talking digging through tile floors, I'd try something like checking to make sure the player is standing on the ground, not rolling, etc. THEN check the current chunk the player is standing on. (Much like how forced rolling is done with chunks in Sonic 1). Finally making sure you're not on an angle, then putting Knuckles into a state or routine where he moves downward and disappears, then pops back up again. I dunno how exactly you would code it... and you'd also need a failsafe to prevent lower boundary deaths (NOT have CheckLevelBound running when digging)

    One other way, and you'll see an example of where this could be implemented in my EHZ layout... is have an object specifically meant for Knuckles to be able to dig downward through. This is all pie in the sky thinking though, and maybe not necessary considering Knuckles is well enough being able to break walls and such.

    Also, on the topic of levels, in Adventure, Only Sonic and Tails play Sky Chase... is this going to be consistent? You could get Knuckles in there easily, but in terms of his gameplay, to what purpose? Also fitting other characters in may be a pain in the ass, considering palettes...
     
  17. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    Presently Knuckles plays through Sky Chase just like everyone else, but I have thought about dropping it from his level list.

    Speaking of levels, here's one that I absolutely will not be changing:
    http://youtu.be/rOuXXuqcOPE

    Additionally, I've been wanting for a while to give Sonic 2 Adventure Edition a graphical overhaul for the title screen, menus and title cards (maybe the results too) to be more like Sonic Adventure (DX). The only problem is I'm not an artist.

    I was also thinking about branding this new release as Sonic 2 Adventure Edition DX. :v:/>
     
  18. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,210
    423
    63
    Woah that looks brilliant in action. Even the radar sounds authentic.

    Concerning SADX cosmetics, I believe Aquaslash used a very similar format for S Factor. May you base something off that.
     
  19. Faseeh

    Faseeh

    Member
    Looks awesome but are you gonna change the emerald pieces to be green, or make them into green shards?
     
  20. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,603
    198
    43
    SonLVL
    There are no Emerald Shard sprites, and there is only one green color in Knuckles' palette. I'm working with what's available.