Sonic 1 prototype Video (FAKE)

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Andrew75, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Crasher


    Why hello there! Member
    I'm curious if I should see if I can recreate the beta better than this guy.

    That, and my spriting skills suck SO much, you guys would have seen the difference from a mile away :V

    And also, 2 more posts until I've run out of posts. I'm pretty sure that my thread and that video was just a coincidence.

    Edit: HOLY SHIT MAN. The beta video was made on the SAME day I posted my thread.

    I hope I'm not the reason for this D:
  2. Hitaxas


    Retro 80's themed Paladins Twich streamer Member
    don't worry too much, I already posted a comparison picture between your sprite, the one from the Beta image, and the one from the video. They are all different from eachoher.

  3. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    It would be nice to do this, and then show them to Yuji Naka. It would be the perfect chance to explain him that they're not real, but only a recreation of that demo he worked on.
  4. drx


    mfw Researcher
    I sent them a YT message yesterday or so, they never replied.
  5. Beltway


    Temptive Bongwater, Sealed in Can Member
    Sega of Darkest Peru
    college courses / anime trash crusader
    I won't be surprised if some random troll just made a acount in the original uploader's name. Somone did that when a (now proven fake) rumor about this guy having a beta of Sonic 4: Episode II was sent to SEGAbits and for a good number of hours pretended he had the beta.

    EDIT: Here's the account I mentioned:
  6. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    staying alert on the beach Wiki Sysop
    Northumberland, England
    quipu two metres apart
    Those clouds

    they're from the Special Stage. I knew I'd seen them before.

    some have actually been flipped, presumably try and hide this fact
  7. flamewing


    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I will concede that if you keep pushing in the direction of terrain in the final game, you can clip the edge as you describe. But there are a number of wrong things with this argument: first, you assume that he kept pressing the directional in the video, pushing to towards the ledge; there is no evidence that this is the case. If you deny this assumption, your point crumbles when you increase the size of the collision box as I described. But there is more:

    Second, you seem to be under the mistaken impression* that the collision routines used when Sonic is in the air are the same as when he is on the ground; they aren't. In the Hg disassembly, the function 'Sonic_AnglePos' is used while Sonic is on the ground, while the epically misnamed 'Sonic_Floor' function is used while on air. It continues:

    Third, you seem to be mistakenly assuming* that two sensor rays would mount an insurmountable programming obstacle; they don't: 'Sonic_AnglePos' uses two sensor rays for collision with terrain, and the sensor rays are dependent on the ground angle (one ray is used for the "front" of the sprite and one for the "back") and easily does what you claim is 'a hell lot of programming to solve it'. Similarly, 'Sonic_Floor' uses two sensor rays for ceilings and floors, but only one for walls. Which goes on to:

    Fourth, you are assuming that a prototype would have the same collision routines as the final product; regardless of whether or not this is the real deal, that assumption is wrong: Sonic Team could have very easily used two rays for aerial collision with walls in an early tech demo (seeing as every other collision uses two sensor rays, even in the aerial collision routines) but then changed it (possibly in response to feedback, or after further testing) to be less unforgiving of tiny collisions with terrain. The point is we just don't know enough about the real prototype to rule this out.

    * I got these impressions from here:
  8. redhotsonic


    Also known as RHS Tech Member
    United Kingdom
    Exactly. He/she signed up here to see our reactions to his fake. He's probably having a good ol' laugh right now.

    This person isn't giving us enough proof that it's the BETA. Now, if I stumbled accross a cartridge of Sonic 1 that I beleived it could be the BETA, I would give as much proof as possible. I would want to shout to the world that I have the Sonic 1 BETA. I'd take lots of pictures of the cartridge, as many videos as possible, answer all your questions, dump it to share to the community, etc etc.

    But if I was to fool loads of people that I had a BETA, I would just give little information, post a crap video, then not answer any questions. And that is what this person is doing. If he really had the BETA, it would want to make that as clear as possible. If he wanted to fool people, he give as little as possible. Simple.

    I can't remember how it works, it's been many years.

    That's also a valid point, but then that person really has no life =P
  9. Skyler


    Neonネオン Cowgirlカウガール Site Staff
    The next audtion
    General Sonic Discussion is viewable by anyone. Why would s/he create an account to see our reactions when they're already visible?
  10. LOst


    Tech Member
    I once thought about making a Sonic 1 Beta hoax myself, I think it was back in 2003. The problem is that after 2004, it was so easy to make a hoax of a Sonic game from a disassembly, just a couple of lazy hours, that it became totally ineffective to fool people. You need to be very stupid to believe this is real, and even more stupid to try to make a hoax of this in the first place.
  11. Afti


    Were I the hoaxster, I'd make an account just for the sake of the amusement it'd bring- OWNER OF BETAA IS ON FORUM, etc.

    There is no compelling evidence for this being real and a boatload against.
  12. Miles3298


    It's really easy to hook up an older laptop to a CRT TV and run user-created content like that. Both videos show tearing on the TV (but not around it), a sign that there might be something running via PC rather than the camera being bad. My laptop tended to do this when running anything full-screen. Just saying.
  13. Hez


    Asshole Oldbie
    Your mother
    You know what gives this away more than anything. He has white stripes on his shoes
  14. FuzzballFox


    Hmmmmm Member
    UK - Hampshire
    Nothing anymore
  15. Lapper


    Sonic Studio, Sonic Physics Guide, Kyle & Lucy: WW, Freedom Planet 2
    But.... he has a stripe on his shoe here:
  16. Vaiyt


    Oglio p'ru çeu Member
    Who's that "everyone" you're talking about, pale-face?

    In general, the tone has been of skepticism. No "OMG DO WANT DO WANT". Nobody hailing this guy as the new saint of Sonic history. Most knowledgeable people are saying it's a fake. Really, some people are unsure on whether it's true or not, but we haven't even had a flame war yet. As far as trolling goes, this isn't particularly sucessful.
  17. saxman


    Oldbie Tech Member
    He tricked Yugi Naka. How is he not successful? As long as people are around to consider that it "might" be real, he has a reason to keep this going. He has gotten an enormous amount of attention for this. He successfully trolled the Sonic scene.

    And I have no idea what pale-face means.
  18. Hez


    Asshole Oldbie
    Your mother
    Never saw that clear of a picture....touche
  19. dsrb


    Paleface is an American Indian term for white settlers. I guess he's referring to the thing where the Lone Ranger and Tonto get surrounded by Indians; the Lone Ranger says ‘We're done for!’; and Tonto, himself an Indian, says ‘Who's this “we” you're talking about, paleface?’. The point, I guess, is that you conjured up some amorphous “everyone” and then basically completely assumed what they're doing based upon your own interpretation.
  20. Endri


    Officer I don't have my drivers license with me. C Tech Member
    Hmm, I see.
    I believe that first and foremost, you may need to ask yourself the following question: What is one player more likely to do when jumping an obstacle or wall, or trying to reach a higher platform in a 'platforming' genre of game? a)Keep pressing in the direction s/he wants the character to move and jump, or b)jump and then press the buttom to move the video game character, only when the character is already on air? If the second alternative is selected, be wary that, after the jump button is pressed, there is only so much reaction time for the player to press a directional buttom before the vertical speed is reversed (going downwards), rendering the video game character less likely to succefully overtake the obstacle/wall, or land on the higher platform. It's not quantum logics here; it's common sense. This is a behaviour of human nature, especially in video game players. I'll conceed you that, in the event of the player on the video not keeping the directional buttom pressed as s/he jumped, then your theory would indeed work. However, as long as common sense is concerned, the chances are pretty slim. It doesn't help the fact that in the lastest video, the player completly avoided direct contact with the wall. Perhaps they read the technicall notes writen by Saxman, ICE Knight, Sik, Rika Chou, Taxman and me, or was that just coincidence?

    I can't conceive how you got this wrong impression from me. I have full knowledge on how the collision routines works in Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3, Knuckles, and Chaotix. And kill me if I don't; Irrelevantly, I spend this Summer (Summer for us, Winter in North America) porting Knuckles' Chaotix—because there are no 32X emulators for any other platform other than computers, and Knuckles' Chaotix is, ironically, my favorite Sonic game on the Mega Drive. I've been using andlabs' SVN disassembly, but it is still heavily undocumented. But still, many undocumented routines have equivalent subroutines in Sonic 1, 2, and 3K, so I ended up technically porting Sonic 2 instead, and replicating when necessary the Knuckles' Chaotix routines. I am annoyingly perfectionist, and I am confident enough to say that I am fully aware of how the collision routines work, and if they aren't frame-by-frame, 1:1 with the originals. After all, I am the physics bitch of this community!

    Your argument doesn't comply with what I said: you are saying that the two sensors rays used to detect floor (and both floor and ceil when or air, and to check if Sonic should jump or not while on the ground in the event of a low ceil right above Sonic) "easily does" what I claim "a hell lot of programming to solve". However, these sensor rays you speak about are vertical rays. Read again what I said:
    The vertical sensor rays detect the angle of the collision array and the height Sonic should be set. The horizontal sensor ray, however, is what is used to "push Sonic off from a wall and set Sonic speed to 0". And this is exactly what it does. Now, experiment with this: add 19 to the position of the horizontal ray in any of the Mega Drive Sonic games instead of 4, and see what happens—Sonic will be pushing against the first grass bump in Green Hill Zone. Of course, my example was about using two rays both in "horizontal collision mode" and "vertical collision mode" while on ground as much as while on air. Of course, you win because if the two horizontal rays are only used while Sonic is on air, then everything would behave as you described.

    Our friend 'common sense' applies in this case here as well; it is a common good programming practice to plan ahead the design decisions and the paths you'll be using in order to reach them before actually sitting down to write the code, because developers have a set deadline to have X feature read at X point. There is simply no time to write an entire code from scratch, only to reach middle development and say "damn that, will rewrite the entire base engine". More on that, if you care to research old articles and interviews with Yuji Naka (don't have the time to check for the sources myself right now), you'll notice that he explained that by the point of the tech demo, the entire base engine for the game was ready, and they only needed to tweak, remove or add things by demand when necessary. Also, if you watch the Sonic Generations documentary, will see Yuji Naka coding what appears to be a very early version of Sonic in Assembly—the 'Sonic_Move' subroutine is highlighted. Now compare the 'Sonic_Move' subroutine from back then to the equivalent subroutine on the disassembly of the final version of Sonic 1. Barely andthing was changed, if at all.

    Conclusion: you are right about using two horizontal sensor rays only while on air; it would give the "MMF" effect. BUT I think this is a stretch. Then again, we can't rule out any possiblity—Quantum Mechanics in effect for unknown past events.