Sonic 06

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Fuzedknight, Jan 11, 2011.

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  1. 0r4ng3

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    06 has a story too fucked up to make any sort of sense out of it. Every other Sonic game has a stable story that can be told easily. Now 06 needs a lot of timelines to make it work? That's terrible. :psyduck:
     
  2. Vaiyt

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    I hate time travel stories. It seems to be the contrivance of choice nowadays, to make a story seem more complex when it's actually just a clusterfuck.
     
  3. Zephyr

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    This is even more convoluted than the most complex DBZ time travel/timeline dissection I've seen.

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>But that just makes this all the more entertaining. </span>
     
  4. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=547873:date=Jan 17 2011, 03:54 PM:name=Frozen Nitrogen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frozen Nitrogen @ Jan 17 2011, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547873">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->HOWEVER. After Wave Ocean, Omega confesses to Shadow that HE was the one who captured Shadow such that his frozen corpse was in Mephiles' display under Flame Core in 2206. When, and why, exactly, did Omega do this? He was in the world for the 200 years where Shadow got witch-hunted, sure, but he was only nominally in it, 'cos he was a slumbering hunk of metal.

    ???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Data collection? I always assumed it was "future" Omega that hunts Shadow, while "present" Omega just sat there, on standby, quietly observing the world around him, occasionally downloading some porn on the internet, and maybe reading the news while he's online. I have no idea what capabilities Omega has besides blowing stuff up, but since he's apparently sentient, I assume he has something along those lines.

    EDIT:

    <!--quoteo(post=547884:date=Jan 17 2011, 04:28 PM:name=0r4ng3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Jan 17 2011, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547884">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->06 has a story too fucked up to make any sort of sense out of it. Every other Sonic game has a stable story that can be told easily. Now 06 needs a lot of timelines to make it work? That's terrible. :psyduck:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It involves time travel. -Any- story that involves time travel and keeps it consistent will have a batch of timelines when analysed like this. Sonic '06 is one of the few times I've actually seen it pulled off CORRECTLY (bar Last Story, given) - the others being FAQ About Time Travel (bar the very end, where a similar thing happens), Planet of the Apes and... Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Everything else makes a humongous cock-up at the heart of the story. Back to the Future can't even decide which set of laws it's running on. In the Terminator films, you simultaneously can and cannot change the past, depending on whether the plot demands it. Frequency doesn't even understand the concept.

    As far as time-travel stories go, '06 is very tidy. I mean, I only needed three main timelines for four backwards jumps in time. (Compare to the same number of jumps in Bill and Ted requiring 16 full timelines).

    And besides, the only timeline you need be concerned with is the final one.
     
  5. Nix

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    I've been stumped on part of Sonic 06's storyline for some time. Can you actually change the past? Looking at Silver and Shadow when they jumped back in time to the past, they intervened with the past, but that apparently was supposed to happen since Mephiles knows Shadow in the present before they went back in time. That makes me think you can't change the past, but Sonic does it anyways, which made me think that Sonic always saved Elise from the Egg Carrier crash. Which made me think again, and if Sonic always saved Elise....wouldn't that mean Silver's future is "wrong" kinda? If Sonic did in fact always save Elise that would mean Silver's future happened because of a certain set of events that never happened.

    I'm so confused. :psyduck:
     
  6. TheInvisibleSun

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    Duck's write up reminds me of Endless Eight...
     
  7. Kyuu

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    <!--quoteo(post=547798:date=Jan 17 2011, 03:29 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Jan 17 2011, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547798">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=547797:date=Jan 17 2011, 11:23 AM:name=Frozen Nitrogen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frozen Nitrogen @ Jan 17 2011, 11:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547797">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=547744:date=Jan 17 2011, 05:50 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Jan 17 2011, 05:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547744">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Timeline 1
    Elise, eventually realising Sonic isn't returning, cries and releases Iblis.
    Iblis does what large fiery demigods do.
    ...
    Mephiles talks to Silver and Blaze. – More firepower, or just dramatic licence? You decide.
    Mephiles travels to the past with Silver and Blaze.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But if Iblis was initially released by crying, doesn't this mean he should have been in a form to which Mephiles could fuse? Admittedly, Mephiles isn't IN THE UNIVERSE at the time during timeline 1A, since he's travelled to the future... but when he pops out in 2056 (2206?) shouldn't he be able to fuse with Iblis there, negating any requirement for him to fuck about with Silver or Blaze or going back to the past? And in other timelines, like What's your criteron for whether or not Mephiles is allowed to fuse with Iblis during any particular loop?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm completely ignoring the fusion of Iblis and Mephiles, as it's part of the Last Story, and as I've already said, the Last Story fucks everything up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    On the topic of Last Story (and I don't know much about this so it's probably incorrect), wouldn't having a parallel timeline with differing events allow for it to happen?

    This is just a theory (and it relies on the question-ability of the location of the Purple Emerald around the same time as the Shadow/Mephiles fight at the desert), but what if another Mephiles from a timeline where he obtained 6 of the Emeralds (the missing one being the Purple Emerald) travels to Timeline 3D and obtains the last one? Couldn't that Mephiles skewer Sonic to cause Last Story to happen? Assuming that something like that is possible, then it'd also explain how he somehow has all 7 Emeralds at that point.

    Once again, I have no idea if this follows the laws of time-travel that Sonic 06 does, and it depends on the location of the Purple Emerald near the end of Shadow's story. Just a theory as to how it could be feasible.
     
  8. FinalBeyond

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    <!--quoteo(post=547951:date=Jan 17 2011, 08:15 PM:name=TheInvisibleSun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheInvisibleSun @ Jan 17 2011, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547951">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Duck's write up reminds me of Endless Eight...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, the resident Esper is played by Ono Daisuke...
     
  9. Overlord

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    Just read Duck's timeline thread - while I'm still trying to parse in my head how the timeline splitting stuff works, there's no doubt a lot of effort has gone into that one, good job.

    Incidentally, speaking as someone who never really played much further in Sonic 06 than the first time Sonic and co get sent into the future by Robotnik (I just couldn't take the fucking game any more), how does the final story screw everything up?
     
  10. 0r4ng3

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    All of these timeline changes make sense considering the cast that shows up in Last Episode. There are a few theories that say time would collapse if the past was changed, so when time died on the game, all the characters that had a hand in these timeline changes showed up there (excluding Blaze, who died or switched dimensions, whatever you guys prefer).
     
  11. GeneHF

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    >Reads time line theory

    ...

    >skims through it again

    ...fuck this game. I'm glad it wrote itself out of existence.

    Now if only it'd have written itself out of reality. If a Sonic game needs more discussion than "What? Eggman's up to his usual shit again? Better go smash his crap up." then it has failed.
     
  12. Vinchenz

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    wow my head hurts :psyduck:

    ...and it also makes me want to play Sonic '06 again. -_-
     
  13. Erinaceus

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    <!--quoteo(post=547900:date=Jan 17 2011, 11:21 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Jan 17 2011, 11:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547900">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It involves time travel. -Any- story that involves time travel and keeps it consistent will have a batch of timelines when analysed like this. Sonic '06 is one of the few times I've actually seen it pulled off CORRECTLY (bar Last Story, given) - the others being FAQ About Time Travel (bar the very end, where a similar thing happens), Planet of the Apes and... Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Everything else makes a humongous cock-up at the heart of the story. Back to the Future can't even decide which set of laws it's running on. In the Terminator films, you simultaneously can and cannot change the past, depending on whether the plot demands it. Frequency doesn't even understand the concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Soooo... The reason Sonic 2006's story is so stupid is because Sonic Team's writers are so smart? I'll be damned...
     
  14. Frozen Nitrogen

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    <!--quoteo(post=547978:date=Jan 17 2011, 09:17 PM:name=Overlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Overlord @ Jan 17 2011, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547978">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Incidentally, speaking as someone who never really played much further in Sonic 06 than the first time Sonic and co get sent into the future by Robotnik (I just couldn't take the fucking game any more), how does the final story screw everything up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's kind of a 2-strike thing. First, when Solaris is reformed he starts to eat the fabric of time itself, which sorta stops any kind of causality from making sense.

    SECOND, after Solaris is defeated, Sonic and Elise go back to 1995 (NOT 1996; they go even earlier) and shut down the experiment before it does anything by extinguishing the Flame of Hope, thereby writing all those time loops out of existance and giving you just:

    TIMELINE 4:

    1995
    Solaris Project fails with a whimper rather than a bang

    2006
    Nothing untoward happens in Soleanna at all
     
  15. Kyuu

    Kyuu

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    <!--quoteo(post=548064:date=Jan 17 2011, 04:57 PM:name=Erinaceus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Erinaceus @ Jan 17 2011, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=548064">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=547900:date=Jan 17 2011, 11:21 AM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Jan 17 2011, 11:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547900">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It involves time travel. -Any- story that involves time travel and keeps it consistent will have a batch of timelines when analysed like this. Sonic '06 is one of the few times I've actually seen it pulled off CORRECTLY (bar Last Story, given) - the others being FAQ About Time Travel (bar the very end, where a similar thing happens), Planet of the Apes and... Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Everything else makes a humongous cock-up at the heart of the story. Back to the Future can't even decide which set of laws it's running on. In the Terminator films, you simultaneously can and cannot change the past, depending on whether the plot demands it. Frequency doesn't even understand the concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Soooo... The reason Sonic 2006's story is so stupid is because Sonic Team's writers are so smart? I'll be damned...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I laughed, sigged.


    More on-topic; What I was thinking was that along with Duck's timeline(s?) for the game's story, another one where Mephiles obtains 6 of the Emeralds could be running at the same time. Would something like that be within the laws of time-travel? If so, wouldn't a possible explanation for Last Story be that the Mephiles from the separate timeline teleport into Sonic 2006's plot, obtain the 7th Emerald, and skewer Sonic?

    I really don't know much about what I'm talking about here, it's just a thought (so I won't be surprised when I'm wrong or end up saying something stupid).
     
  16. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=547978:date=Jan 17 2011, 09:17 PM:name=Overlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Overlord @ Jan 17 2011, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=547978">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just read Duck's timeline thread - while I'm still trying to parse in my head how the timeline splitting stuff works, there's no doubt a lot of effort has gone into that one, good job.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There isn't actually any timeline "splitting" going on - everything up to 3D is just "in progress".
     
  17. Overlord

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    OK then, parsing THAT. =P I've read it several times over and the links still confuse me.
     
  18. DigitalDuck

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    <!--quoteo(post=548479:date=Jan 18 2011, 09:36 PM:name=Overlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Overlord @ Jan 18 2011, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=548479">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK then, parsing THAT. =P I've read it several times over and the links still confuse me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Any particular points that confuse you?
     
  19. Overlord

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    Just how you go from one to another. The flow of EVENTS makes sense, I'm just having trouble visualising how the links work.
     
  20. TheKazeblade

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    A visual graph of the events would be MOST helpful :specialed:
     
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