So... Roboticization

Then the cliffhanger came.

I've found 3 persons the eyes are thought to belong to: Ixis Naugus, Metal Sonic, or Knuckles. We'll throw Knuckles out right now, as that would throw out his cliche "tricked by main baddie" introduction, and I don't think he existed at that time anyway. Metal Sonic can be thrown out because the eyes opened like eyes, rather than flickering into existence. And that leaves Naugus.

Now then, back to roboticization...

Somebody agrees...

 

I understand Rule of Cute and why it's typical. What I can't understand is why fans of the show cling to this notion that SatAM is this revolutionary kids show with such a good plot and world construction when it fails to at these basic story methods. Again, I'm not saying the show isn't likable. Everything is likable. It's just not well constructed. And fans can't accept that and make excuses for it, when there's no excuse to the bad storytelling. It's like Unleashed. People may hate it, people may love it, I'm personally part of the second group. The fact that it's a Sonic game and half of the time you're doing hack and slash makes it not well constructed. Being darker or employing darker concepts doesn't make SatAM better than AOSTH, when it fails to make those points meaningful. They're just there because... well there's no reason whatsoever.

The wizard is not just a human. He's a enhanced human if you will, therefore not quite relatable to a human. Also if he was evil before awakening that reinforces the point that humans are inherently evil anyway. Naugus looked like a Goblin to me. Even if we consider him a human, he's still a villain, not a neutral or a good guy.

I'm not a writer. I only provided an idea it occurred to me while writing the reply. And if he really wanted to subjugate everybody, what's Snively doing there? Oh sure, he rules Sniv by fear. Why didn't he rule the animals by fear then? It must be better for the ego and sadism as well, seing dozens leaving in fear instead of just one.

Completely evil characters need to have some kind of likable treat. By likable I don't say he needs any Pet the Dog moment. He can be rotten to the core and people loving to hate him, he can be extremely witty or very good at planning or manipulating for example. Robotnik is bland though, there's nothing charming about him. He sits in chair while petting his chicken robot and saying some generic villain lines, or yells at Snively when his plans are foiled.

 

Bunnie Rabbot wasn't a willing replacement though was it? I thought Robotnik tried to roboticize her, but Sonic stopped him.

I mean, it IS an improvement over her original limbs, but she still was opposed to the idea to begin with.

 

To be honest, wtf who came up with that idea? I mean, it looks like it takes a couple of minutes to actually do it. Why would Eggman take that time to transform someone into a robot, instead of using his epic army of robots to kill everyone?
Think about, where does this make any sense? Where?!

So in my opinion, I don't like it, but it also doesn't scare. I'm just like, lol creapy idea. :v:

 

@David: Actually, I think they did have plans to introduce Knuckles and Angel Island but couldn't do so due to the show's cancellation.
And, in Sonic X's defense, at least the Archie comics version of Sonic X featured Metal Sonic. :v: Even if it was Metal Sonic from Archie's prime reality. 8D

As for the topic at hand... I just never really understood nor liked the whole concept being introduced in all these various spin-off-media, good as they might be otherwise. It's just, as already pointed out, completely out of nowhere.

 

I think I heard that Hurst later queried the usage of Knuckles when asked about it later, suggesting he was just kinda suggesting a passive 'sure, maybe, why not?' on the idea.

And the Metal Sonic use in Sonic X was only due to the crossover plotline, there were actually strict guidelines for the comic forbidding non-Sonic X characters appearing (the nearest cameo otherwise was some badniks and Bean, the later was loopholed around since it was in the form of a toy). Metal's use was pretty crappy anyway, the final issue was just corny, in the non entertaining manner the comic often was before.

As for Robotnik using the robotocizer I kinda get the idea it was due to being derived from the show bible concepts, where Robotnik was suggested to be a more sympathetic character who thought he was making the world the better place by turning it into a robotic utopia.

It made slight sense in early episodes, where his robots were occasionally sentient and he shown some sort of sentiment for them. He valued life, but solely in a certain form, one he could manipulate in his favor.

Later on this aspect seemed to be dropped, and Robotnik came off as more an clitche 'evil for evil's sake' type villain. The best suggestion I can give to it's usage was mere sadistic pleasure. He turned down the chance to kill Sonic when he was granted the chance in favor of a more cruel and unusual (and ultimately unsuccessful) death trap he could savor his nemesis' suffering from. From this we see his methods were rotated less around the most ethical but what he could get the most enjoyment from, it wasn't enough to just destroy his enemies, he had to put them through a form of hell he could enjoy their torture from, the robotocizer more or less fits just that.

 

I agree with all points. It just doesn't fit, either with the franchise and within itself.

 

Just imagine the SatAM fans who still collect the Archie comic on a regular basis, and the current writer having to readapt the original SatAM based Robotnik into today's more familiar Dr. Eggman. Not an easy feat and it must be pretty scary.

You and me both. I recall seeing comic scans of the European origin story for Sonic and Robotnik way back when and being confused as all hell as to why it didn't add up with any of the other stories I had read or seen. I was completely unaware that there were several other Sonic continuities beyond the American stories. What's more was that I couldn't understand why so many separate stories were written and why they just didn't use one. In truth, it may have been bad marketing. What's wrong with the idea of a blue hedgehog who jumps on robots? Was it just too flimsy for other cultures to handle? Someone apparently felt it was necessary to needlessly create a bunch of back stories for different countries, as if that was the reason any kid would play Sonic the Hedgehog. I suppose what Sega didn't count on was the internet. Now fans from different parts of the world could read up on other official Sonic continuities, which would eventually lead to a lot of inbreeding. It's amazing how Sonic still survives today and how Sega, and Archie too, seem to be making an effort to make sense of it all.

No offense to Ben Hurst, but Saturday Morning cartoon stories and scripts aren't the most well constructed or thought out. It's obvious SatAM really didn't have much regard to the original source material, and honestly how much did you have to work with from the games back then? Even Sonic X had to introduce a bunch of secondary characters, because it couldn't support itself entirely on the games. Anyway, Saturday Morning cartoons have always had a reputation of being "crapped out", and the fact that the cartoons were produced through DiC is no exception. Despite many of our generation having grown up with DiC cartoons, it is renowned as one of the worst animation studios in history. Now, I don't think I'm the only one, but I can see lots of elements from other sources out right stolen and slapped into SatAM, Blade Runner being perhaps the most prevalent. It's interesting how you mentioned Planet of the Apes as well in Ben's original origin for Robotnik, because I think I think this creates even more evidence that Sonic on his own wasn't strong enough for animated cartoons. So what did the writers do? Steal from other sources to make Sonic more likable. Even if you had never seen, for example, Blade Runner, these elements played into the ignorance of young kids as a totally original concept, especially for Sonic the Hedgehog. Even Nostalgia Critic gave it a heads up! In the end, it wasn't really about Sonic at all, his name was just attached to the series. If you had never played a Sonic game in your life and decided to buy one for the first time after watching SatAM, wouldn't you feel ripped off?

Honestly, I think the show survived for another season because it had "Sonic" in it. I wonder if it's ratings were any good at all?

I'm super surprised Archie never started Sonic from scratch again. I think a good part of Archie's readership were SatAM fans and Archie felt they needed to cater to them. From what I've seen of the more recent issues, there's much more of a SegaSonic influence than there was before. I'm sure that's been no easy ride for any of the writers. Especially for fear of having to deal with older fans who grew up on the SatAM based universe, as well as some of the previous Archie based canon. With SatAM nearing almost twenty years since its first air, the comic has moved on to be somewhat more representative of its original source (the games), and SatAM fans are beginning to feel less of a tickle in their memory banks when it comes to referencing those elements. I wonder what the comic fanbase consists of now? Is it mostly young kids or older fans?

I think this needs to be seen again, because it's most likely where the roboticizer was robbed from:

 

If they could've gone in the same direction as Fleetway's Sonic the Comic, I think the series would've been much better. I mean, think about it. It's environments, themes and style stuck to the source material (minus whenever Robotnik went "Milton Knight" on us), but also added the edgy dark idea and multiple woodland character count that SatAM was trying to do, yet doing it way better than them by (like already said) sticking to the source material, which also made it where there wasn't a huge problem sticking the games and the media together. If StC would've been a TV show, I could bet you it would've been consistently awesome, and remembered way more than SatAM ever has been.

On-topic: Roboticization? Heck no. Badnikization? Definitely yes.

Of course the difference between the two is that roboticization is turning the entire body into a super-mechafied version of itself, while "badnikization" (yay for self-coined terms) is simply putting creatures inside of seperately-existing robots where the creature acts as an organic battery. Not only is the badnik deal better because of it being what Sega intended, but it's also much better than the more gritty and gruesome roboticization idea.

They had their chance. Sonic #175. It shown what was supposedly Robotnik destroying everything related to the Archie/SatAMverse, including all the extra characters they introduced over the years through both the tv show and the comic series. The only characters left standing were Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy; left in a wasteland where they would start anew on an ongoing battle against Robotnik. Then one issue later we find out "oh hay they all just sorta were teleported into these here Egg Grapes hurp durp" and they rebuilt the city in a nanofortress and then added 10,000 more characters to the already-near-exploding-from-overload character cast in the comic. One issue of awesomeness, ultimate potential, and sheer bliss went to waste.

Never again will I be fooled like that Archie, never again

 

I can imagine that was really scary, not only for older fans, but Archie too. Their sales would plummet had they gone with it! Unless Archie likes to make their fanbase wet their pants.

 

Roboticization is different in Sonic Underground. People get turned into Cyborgs rather than full robots. However, they still lose their free will.

 

I seem to recall robot Uncle Chuck on Underground.

 

Um.... You used post 1998 material to say that the Robotnik of the games didn't steal tech to make his plans come true... BUT, you're forgetting a fan favorite game.... Sonic Adventure 2.

Did you forget that he picked up on his grandfather's journals and stole his tech outright to... well, what else(?)... conquer the world. Are we forgetting that he woke up his grandfather's creation to aid him in world conquest? Come on now, that was a really obvious thing to ignore, man.

Oh and about that pollution problem.....



I mean... I'm not the only one seeing that smoke billowing from that factory back there, am I? If anything, it looks like Robotropolis.... and Scrap Brain IS Robotnik's lair as well.

Actually, I heard there were plans to include Knuckles in the series... They just didn't get to go any further than Season 2. No plans to do so? Stop making assumptions. Hurst would HAVE to do it. I'm pretty sure he knew that.

Straying from source material... Hahaha, you guys are funny. The show is actually quite close to what one could figure from the original games. Robotnik has his city in the Scrap Brain Zone called Robotropolis, you've got Freedom Fighters based on the animals straight from the games ('cept old Antoine), you've got the Big Bad Doctor causing misery to the animals forcing them to work for him.

Thing is... It still has a premise very similar to the games. You can't deny it. All that was missing was the varied locations and the pretty colors and surreality of the flora and design.

I don't know if it's better than Sonic the Comic, now... (haven't read it)... BUT, you guys just aren't giving this show enough credit.

 

Yeah, but it's very loosely based on the games. Beyond what you mentioned, there is nothing in common with the two canons, besides Sonic is blue, there's a fox named Tails theres a ring in one way or another. The lighthearted and surreal feeling is what makes up a good majority of the franchise's appeal, and they completely removed that in SatAM, which unsurprisingly led to the show being a hollow shell of a Sonic canon.

And if you haven't read Sonic the Comic to compare the two, I'd say do it TO it, man.

Oh yeah, I went there.

 

Not wrongly accusing you, but where was it said that Robotnik's headquarters was Scrap Brain? Maybe it was in one of the manuals? I'm not sure anyone saw much of Robotnik's "polluting" influence in many other aspects of the games. Maybe Oil Ocean Zone or some of Sonic Spinball? But I'd say the Robotnik in the games is pretty tidy when it comes to spreading his machinations. The bit about the Freedom Fighters being based off game animals is probably true, but they didn't exactly form a coalition with you to fight Robotnik. I agree with the part about making the animals miserable, but I think it's been stepped way up with the whole turning flesh and blood into metal. It was supposed to be kind of a moot point that you'd never actually see how the animals reacted to being inside the robots or the process in the games. Even if this is based on what little source material was available, I'd still think it's pretty removed.

 

Let's see what kind of advantages roboticisation can offer:

1. Complete immunity from dementia-related illnesses such as Alzheimer's Disease, meaning your full personality could be kept online indefinitely.
2. No more genetic disorders or ill-fit gene variants.
3. Ability to increase intelligence to any arbitrary value.
4. Possible option for immortality and cure for death.
5. Resilience to things like muscular dystrophy can make space travel more likely without worrying on how to simulate gravitational acceleration.
6. No more having to worry about food frees up a lot of land for farming and ultimately does good for the environment.
7. Ability to capitalise on things that natural neural networks are weak on like fast computation and make the use of external calculators and CAS obsolete.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with any of that, and even if it would cause the loss of free will, the fact that there are procedures that can recover that makes the loss extremely trivial to the above benefits. Sign me up!

 

SatAM Robotropolis was always grey in colour. I spy yellow, red and colourfull robot minions amidst that sea of grey, something unthinkable in SatAM. It's still a fair point.

 

I struggle to see what's close to the games, other than the presence of Sonic and Tails. Sonic is a static soldier in a civil war between two unelected dictators, one an animal, the other a mixture of his game nemesis and The Claw from Inspector Gadget. They're fighting on a planet called Mobius, a dull gritty brown and dark blue land, and mainly stick to one forest and one city.

Compare that to the games, where Sonic is a roamer, travelling around the world, often thwarting the schemes of the bumbling but intelligent Eggman/Robotnik as he goes, travelling through a variety of regions with surreal landscapes, huge cities, sprawling colourful vistas, and much more.