So... Roboticization

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by RedStripedShoes, Apr 28, 2010.

Select all that apply.

  1. There's a lot of potential behind it, and it interests me.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Just thinking about it scares me to death.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. It's immoral, and it angers/sickens me.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I have a fetish for this sort of thing.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I don't feel strongly about it.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other (please specify)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

    Stable avatar temporary. Randomizer site down. Misfit
    Then the cliffhanger came.
    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jbHuEJpZrsM&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jbHuEJpZrsM&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->
    I've found 3 persons the eyes are thought to belong to: Ixis Naugus, Metal Sonic, or Knuckles. We'll throw Knuckles out right now, as that would throw out his cliche "tricked by main baddie" introduction, and I don't think he existed at that time anyway. Metal Sonic can be thrown out because the eyes opened like eyes, rather than flickering into existence. And that leaves Naugus.

    Now then, back to roboticization...<!--quoteo(post=448734:date=Apr 28 2010, 10:39 PM:name=Enzo Aquarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enzo Aquarius @ Apr 28 2010, 10:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=448734">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Partial roboticization is definitely a feasible idea in our society, and is interesting in my opinion. In fact, some could say we have already entered that kind of phase with artificial limbs. Using robotic replacements to improve a person's life through mobility and survival is definitely something that can help people, similar to the original idea that Uncle Chuck had when he first developed the roboticizer, while keeping their mind intact and merely bringing about something that was taken away (such as use of hands or walking).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Somebody agrees...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

    Member
    1,318
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449172:date=Apr 30 2010, 06:55 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Apr 30 2010, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449172">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Truthfully the good animals/bad humans thing is common with cartoons due to the 'Rule of Cute'. Animals are often cute and thus easier to represent as cute, humans aren't as cute so can be made less loveable villains. Truthfully it's no different from the early games with Eggman as the sole human, perhaps it's enthasised more in the show due to it's respective Robotnik lacking any real redeeming aspects, he's basically a walking 'kick the dog' compared to the more sympathetic Eggman of the games, Snively, though more pitiful and comical in tone, isn't that pleasant either.

    Though there was the wizard of Super Sonic episode, who despite his history of evil turned good following his awakening. Should Naugus count as human, he may have counted as a more sympathetic villain, if still self serving.

    I admit the casual tone in Sonic Boom seemed a bit jarring, I can understand balancing things with humor (eg. Antoine was there for that) but the characters came off as way too casual for the occasion considering the circumstances involving both Cat and King Acorn. It's another key example of the RedShirt syndrome (though even then Sonic's attitude was surprisingly cold at times, in Hooked On Sonics he sounded deadly serious about leaving Ant for dead).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I understand Rule of Cute and why it's typical. What I can't understand is why fans of the show cling to this notion that SatAM is this revolutionary kids show with such a good plot and world construction when it fails to at these basic story methods. Again, I'm not saying the show isn't likable. Everything is likable. It's just not well constructed. And fans can't accept that and make excuses for it, when there's no excuse to the bad storytelling. It's like Unleashed. People may hate it, people may love it, I'm personally part of the second group. The fact that it's a Sonic game and half of the time you're doing hack and slash makes it not well constructed. Being darker or employing darker concepts doesn't make SatAM better than AOSTH, when it fails to make those points meaningful. They're just there because... well there's no reason whatsoever.

    The wizard is not just a human. He's a enhanced human if you will, therefore not quite relatable to a human. Also if he was evil before awakening that reinforces the point that humans are inherently evil anyway. Naugus looked like a Goblin to me. Even if we consider him a human, he's still a villain, not a neutral or a good guy.

    <!--quoteo(post=449178:date=Apr 30 2010, 07:16 PM:name=Uncle Otis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uncle Otis @ Apr 30 2010, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449178">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I admit that would've made for more interesting stories, but I'm skeptical if this would've fit Robotnik's motivations. Not really remembering much of SATAM, was Robotnik trying to rule Mobius or was he trying to grind it into an uninhabitable state? Given his sadism, misanthropy, ego ("the entirety of the planet is subordinate to me!") and probable psychotic state of mind, I doubt he would hesitate to strive for the latter genocidal and suicidal goal. Assuming I'm right, working with the very beings he's trying to eliminate, even if it helps him to pursue that goal, seems forced to me. Besides, Robotnik probably has enough resources to do the deed himself.

    On a somewhat related point, if you're going to make Robotnik evil incarnate (as opposed to the more ambiguous Eggman of the games), then I don't want any background history on the character or pet the dog moments that could possibly portray the character in even a slightly more sympathetic light. Robotnik's character depends on him being thoroughly rotten and the viewers hating or fearing him because of that. Sure, it's one-sided take on Robotnik, but I think it's really the only way to believably portray the character.

    A more suitable character to show more depth is definitely Snively. I personally would've loved to see him try to run Robotnik's operations, fail, and eventually side with the Freedom Fighters in the canceled third season.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not a writer. I only provided an idea it occurred to me while writing the reply. And if he really wanted to subjugate everybody, what's Snively doing there? Oh sure, he rules Sniv by fear. Why didn't he rule the animals by fear then? It must be better for the ego and sadism as well, seing dozens leaving in fear instead of just one.

    Completely evil characters need to have some kind of likable treat. By likable I don't say he needs any Pet the Dog moment. He can be rotten to the core and people loving to hate him, he can be extremely witty or very good at planning or manipulating for example. Robotnik is bland though, there's nothing charming about him. He sits in chair while petting his chicken robot and saying some generic villain lines, or yells at Snively when his plans are foiled.
     
  3. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

    For some mysterious reason... Administrator
    This topic, I think, brings up one of the major flaws in the SatAM universe, and by extension the basis of the Archie comics, that makes that interpretation of the Sonic the Hedgehog mythos so fundamentally flawed.

    When I was kid, I must admit I loved the Saturday morning series. I would wake up early to watch it, would claim its superiority over its syndicated counterpart, and buy the comic whenever I had the chance. But over time, I have come to the realization that Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog is by far the more faithful show to the games, and that Ben Hurst and all his ideas were never intended to fit in with Sonic, no mater how many people loved what he did or how the entire fanbase on the Internet back in the mid-90's centered around it.

    To clear up one point about the whole "evil humans" thing. At one point, Ben Hurst admitted that the only reason Robotnik and Snively were the only humans in the show is because they were the only humans who lived on the planet. Even though it was never covered in the series (and indeed may never have been brought up if the show had finished properly), the writing staff went under the backstory that Robotnik and Snively were from "our" future but Mobius' past, and they went through a Planet of the Apes situation.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, bearing in mind that we were given no history of the Sonic characters when we came on board, we created a "White Paper" that created a history for the characters. This doesn't mean that what we created is the definitive backstory. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the document, but as I recall, Julian and Snively were part of a space expedition from about 2200 (or thereabouts). Julian attempted a takeover of the colony, but his technology got out of control and he wound up destroying everything, narrowly escaping with his (and Snively's) lives.

    Meanwhile, back on Earth, a nuclear holocaust had destroyed human life as we knew it - and the animals who survived mutated into sentient beings and built the society which you see in the form of Mobius. Einstein's ideas of the passage of time during faster-than-light space travel kick in and thousands of years have passed by the time Julian and Snively returned to find this "Animal" world. Well, Julian's thought was that in the land of the four-pawed critters, the two-handed man is king and so he set about to take over - as outlined in Blast to the Past.

    Again, this is just what we came up with and may not reflect the backstories created by the comic book writers.

    Hope this helps,

    Ben<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This does bring up one important thought - why in the world would King Acorn instantly trust not only someone he's never seen before, but someone of a species he's never encountered? With all its faults, the Archie comic has been able to handle this fact slightly better, with the whole Overlander/Human dynamic, and of course the fact that Robotnik and Snively were simply part of the Overlander tribe that was exiled and subsequently adopted by the Kingdom of Acorn to assist in the winning of the Great War.

    But focusing solely on roboticization, what always bothered me was the fact that Robotnik just stole this technology outright. In the games, he is a mad genius, and everything he comes up with is his idea (aside from all the "Monster of the Week" beings he has resurrected...and Emeral. But who cares about him). Eggman has too big of an ego to just go about and use other people's ideas and robots and inventions to take over the world. He wants to establish the "Eggman Empire," not "generic polluted city." And even in the games, Eggman never really...wanted to pollute everything. Or kill everything. He just wanted everyone to love and admire his great intellect. Sure, maybe it wasn't very clear in the Genesis games because of story limitations, but Sonic Adventure should have proved that beyond a doubt. Yes, I know Adventure didn't exist back then. But I guess I just find it hard to resolve some people's love for "Dr. Robotnik" when his game-counterpart is a completely different person.

    But I guess the super-evil "Robotnik" persona was an American creation even before the advent of the Saturday morning series. That promotional comic from 1991 places him in that stereotypical light, but they didn't have the nerve to just say he was always evil. Had to come up with the whole Kintobor backstory, which is pretty ridiculous when you think about it. I mean, that story really had no basis in the game, and when I was playing Sonic 1 and 2, I tried to resolve the whole Kintobor/Robotnik plot with what the games was telling me, and I just couldn't. I didn't know at the time, but it was because they were inherintly incompatible. I was always wondering why Sonic didn't use the Emeralds to fix Robotnik, but that's because he was Eggman and he didn't need to be fixed...remember, this was back before any of the shows or the comic. So I was allowed to be confused.

    Maybe I'm not so much mad at what the Saturday morning series turned into as much as I am confused at how Ben Hurst was able to just ignore so much of what made Sonic the Hedgehog...well, Sonic the Hedgehog. Even if you go by the "oh he only saw footage of Emerald Hill Act 1 and thought the Kintobor origin was silly," it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. How do you go from "Sonic happily jumps on a robot and an animal pops out" to "mindless robot slaves that no one knows how to turn back to normal." How do you go from "colorful surreal landscape" to "generic forest hideout." How do you go from "villain beaten time and again" to "despotic ruler who has already won and been in control for a decade." How do you stray so, so far from the concept? How many other animated series based on video games strayed that far from the source material?

    I sometimes wonder what the show would have been like if it wasn't based on Sonic the Hedgehog. And how easily they would have been able to finish it...or if it would have died in the middle of the first season. But even then, would they have been able to make a villain with...any sort of motivation? Maybe if they had touched on the "Robotnik is from the past!" thing it would have made the show a bit more credible. At least it would have given some insight into the mind of Robotnik, and why he kept Snively around. Even though he despised his nephew, he was Robotnik's only link to his old life, to his past. The implications and exploration that could be done around that could have been interesting. But no. Can't do that.

    Also, about Uncle Chuck's insight on what it was like being trapped in that state...to be honest, his explanation never really bothered me because the show never really focused on the fact that Robotnik was in power for as long as he was. Aside from the Blast to the Past episodes, we're just given a generic "Robotnik won! Oh no Sonic how did you let this happen." But I think one thing BTTP did touch on which made complete sense was "Why didn't Robotnik kill of the Great Forest when he had the chance?" The first couple episodes of the series made it quite clear Robotnik only wanted to completely ruin the planet. And yet, for some reason, he left the Great Forest completely intact. Never trying to wipe it out the way he did Mobotropolis. If he had, then he wouldn't have been resisted at all. Unless a part of him liked fighting Sonic...in the Archie comic, Robotnik never had as clear a grasp on Mobius. There was far more resistance, "sub-bosses" and plenty of non-robotocized animals running around. Just Archie flailing about trying to make sense of three continuities and ultimately failing on all accounts.

    The Roboticizer was just yet another misinterpretation of one of the fundamental aspects of the Sonic franchise, and while it could be an interesting concept on its own, just isn't compatible with what makes Sonic...well, Sonic. You throw that in there, and what you get is a show that just happens to have Sonic in it. Not a show about Sonic and his world. Honestly, having a series that had no plans on introducing Knuckles or Metal Sonic or Amy Rose...I just don't get that. (Still bothers me Sonic X never bothered to use Metal Sonic in any context, but that's neither here nor there).

    I guess this is the part where I say despite all this, I still own the show on DVD. And immediately give anyone ammunition for saying my point is null and void.

    Oh, and Chaos. The eyes are Nagus. They always were Nagus. Ben Hurst admitted that a long time ago. Though it still would have been cool if it was Metal Sonic...like everyone actually hoped for...:/
     
  4. Jebusman

    Jebusman

    Member
    39
    0
    0
    Canada
    <!--quoteo(post=449214:date=Apr 30 2010, 05:13 PM:name=Chaos Knux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chaos Knux @ Apr 30 2010, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449214">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Bunnie Rabbot wasn't a willing replacement though was it? I thought Robotnik tried to roboticize her, but Sonic stopped him.

    I mean, it IS an improvement over her original limbs, but she still was opposed to the idea to begin with.
     
  5. Selbi

    Selbi

    The Euphonic Mess Member
    1,485
    10
    18
    Northern Germany
    Sonic ERaZor
    To be honest, wtf who came up with that idea? I mean, it looks like it takes a couple of minutes to actually do it. Why would Eggman take that time to transform someone into a robot, instead of using his epic army of robots to kill everyone?
    Think about, where does this make any sense? Where?!

    So in my opinion, I don't like it, but it also doesn't scare. I'm just like, lol creapy idea. :v:
     
  6. Herm the Germ

    Herm the Germ

    Hmm, not bad. Well done, doctor! Member
    1,482
    0
    0
    Dresden, Saxony, Germany
    MIDI-to-SMPS-conversions, mostly. Takin' requests, too.
    @David: Actually, I think they did have plans to introduce Knuckles and Angel Island but couldn't do so due to the show's cancellation.
    And, in Sonic X's defense, at least the Archie comics version of Sonic X featured Metal Sonic. :v: Even if it was Metal Sonic from Archie's prime reality. 8D

    As for the topic at hand... I just never really understood nor liked the whole concept being introduced in all these various spin-off-media, good as they might be otherwise. It's just, as already pointed out, completely out of nowhere.
     
  7. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

    Member
    2,133
    345
    63
    <!--quoteo(post=449276:date=Apr 30 2010, 06:28 PM:name=Herm the Germ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Herm the Germ @ Apr 30 2010, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449276">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@David: Actually, I think they did have plans to introduce Knuckles and Angel Island but couldn't do so due to the show's cancellation.
    And, in Sonic X's defense, at least the Archie comics version of Sonic X featured Metal Sonic. :v: Even if it was Metal Sonic from Archie's prime reality. 8D

    As for the topic at hand... I just never really understood nor liked the whole concept being introduced in all these various spin-off-media, good as they might be otherwise. It's just, as already pointed out, completely out of nowhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think I heard that Hurst later queried the usage of Knuckles when asked about it later, suggesting he was just kinda suggesting a passive 'sure, maybe, why not?' on the idea.

    And the Metal Sonic use in Sonic X was only due to the crossover plotline, there were actually strict guidelines for the comic forbidding non-Sonic X characters appearing (the nearest cameo otherwise was some badniks and Bean, the later was loopholed around since it was in the form of a toy). Metal's use was pretty crappy anyway, the final issue was just corny, in the non entertaining manner the comic often was before.

    As for Robotnik using the robotocizer I kinda get the idea it was due to being derived from the show bible concepts, where Robotnik was suggested to be a more sympathetic character who thought he was making the world the better place by turning it into a robotic utopia.

    It made slight sense in early episodes, where his robots were occasionally sentient and he shown some sort of sentiment for them. He valued life, but solely in a certain form, one he could manipulate in his favor.

    Later on this aspect seemed to be dropped, and Robotnik came off as more an clitche 'evil for evil's sake' type villain. The best suggestion I can give to it's usage was mere sadistic pleasure. He turned down the chance to kill Sonic when he was granted the chance in favor of a more cruel and unusual (and ultimately unsuccessful) death trap he could savor his nemesis' suffering from. From this we see his methods were rotated less around the most ethical but what he could get the most enjoyment from, it wasn't enough to just destroy his enemies, he had to put them through a form of hell he could enjoy their torture from, the robotocizer more or less fits just that.
     
  8. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

    Member
    1,318
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449261:date=Apr 30 2010, 11:08 PM:name=David The Lurker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (David The Lurker @ Apr 30 2010, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449261">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Magnificent wall of text.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree with all points. It just doesn't fit, either with the franchise and within itself.
     
  9. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

    Oldbie
    643
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449261:date=Apr 30 2010, 06:08 PM:name=David The Lurker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (David The Lurker @ Apr 30 2010, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449261">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, I know Adventure didn't exist back then. But I guess I just find it hard to resolve some people's love for "Dr. Robotnik" when his game-counterpart is a completely different person.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Just imagine the SatAM fans who still collect the Archie comic on a regular basis, and the current writer having to readapt the original SatAM based Robotnik into today's more familiar Dr. Eggman. Not an easy feat and it must be pretty scary.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I guess the super-evil "Robotnik" persona was an American creation even before the advent of the Saturday morning series. That promotional comic from 1991 places him in that stereotypical light, but they didn't have the nerve to just say he was always evil. Had to come up with the whole Kintobor backstory, which is pretty ridiculous when you think about it. I mean, that story really had no basis in the game, and when I was playing Sonic 1 and 2, I tried to resolve the whole Kintobor/Robotnik plot with what the games was telling me, and I just couldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You and me both. I recall seeing comic scans of the European origin story for Sonic and Robotnik way back when and being confused as all hell as to why it didn't add up with any of the other stories I had read or seen. I was completely unaware that there were several other Sonic continuities beyond the American stories. What's more was that I couldn't understand why so many separate stories were written and why they just didn't use one. In truth, it may have been bad marketing. What's wrong with the idea of a blue hedgehog who jumps on robots? Was it just too flimsy for other cultures to handle? Someone apparently felt it was necessary to needlessly create a bunch of back stories for different countries, as if that was the reason any kid would play Sonic the Hedgehog. I suppose what Sega didn't count on was the internet. Now fans from different parts of the world could read up on other official Sonic continuities, which would eventually lead to a lot of inbreeding. It's amazing how Sonic still survives today and how Sega, and Archie too, seem to be making an effort to make sense of it all.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe I'm not so much mad at what the Saturday morning series turned into as much as I am confused at how Ben Hurst was able to just ignore so much of what made Sonic the Hedgehog...well, Sonic the Hedgehog. Even if you go by the "oh he only saw footage of Emerald Hill Act 1 and thought the Kintobor origin was silly," it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. How do you go from "Sonic happily jumps on a robot and an animal pops out" to "mindless robot slaves that no one knows how to turn back to normal." How do you go from "colorful surreal landscape" to "generic forest hideout." How do you go from "villain beaten time and again" to "despotic ruler who has already won and been in control for a decade." How do you stray so, so far from the concept? How many other animated series based on video games strayed that far from the source material?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No offense to Ben Hurst, but Saturday Morning cartoon stories and scripts aren't the most well constructed or thought out. It's obvious SatAM really didn't have much regard to the original source material, and honestly how much did you have to work with from the games back then? Even Sonic X had to introduce a bunch of secondary characters, because it couldn't support itself entirely on the games. Anyway, Saturday Morning cartoons have always had a reputation of being "crapped out", and the fact that the cartoons were produced through DiC is no exception. Despite many of our generation having grown up with DiC cartoons, it is renowned as one of the worst animation studios in history. Now, I don't think I'm the only one, but I can see lots of elements from other sources out right stolen and slapped into SatAM, Blade Runner being perhaps the most prevalent. It's interesting how you mentioned Planet of the Apes as well in Ben's original origin for Robotnik, because I think I think this creates even more evidence that Sonic on his own wasn't strong enough for animated cartoons. So what did the writers do? Steal from other sources to make Sonic more likable. Even if you had never seen, for example, Blade Runner, these elements played into the ignorance of young kids as a totally original concept, especially for Sonic the Hedgehog. Even Nostalgia Critic gave it a heads up! In the end, it wasn't really about Sonic at all, his name was just attached to the series. If you had never played a Sonic game in your life and decided to buy one for the first time after watching SatAM, wouldn't you feel ripped off?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I sometimes wonder what the show would have been like if it wasn't based on Sonic the Hedgehog. And how easily they would have been able to finish it...or if it would have died in the middle of the first season.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Honestly, I think the show survived for another season because it had "Sonic" in it. I wonder if it's ratings were any good at all?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless a part of him liked fighting Sonic...in the Archie comic, Robotnik never had as clear a grasp on Mobius. There was far more resistance, "sub-bosses" and plenty of non-robotocized animals running around. Just Archie flailing about trying to make sense of three continuities and ultimately failing on all accounts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm super surprised Archie never started Sonic from scratch again. I think a good part of Archie's readership were SatAM fans and Archie felt they needed to cater to them. From what I've seen of the more recent issues, there's much more of a SegaSonic influence than there was before. I'm sure that's been no easy ride for any of the writers. Especially for fear of having to deal with older fans who grew up on the SatAM based universe, as well as some of the previous Archie based canon. With SatAM nearing almost twenty years since its first air, the comic has moved on to be somewhat more representative of its original source (the games), and SatAM fans are beginning to feel less of a tickle in their memory banks when it comes to referencing those elements. I wonder what the comic fanbase consists of now? Is it mostly young kids or older fans?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Roboticizer was just yet another misinterpretation of one of the fundamental aspects of the Sonic franchise, and while it could be an interesting concept on its own, just isn't compatible with what makes Sonic...well, Sonic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think this needs to be seen again, because it's most likely where the roboticizer was robbed from:

    <!--quoteo(post=448753:date=Apr 29 2010, 12:26 AM:name=)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ Apr 29 2010, 12:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=448753">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YuSsSwg9MXs&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YuSsSwg9MXs&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
     
  10. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    If they could've gone in the same direction as Fleetway's Sonic the Comic, I think the series would've been much better. I mean, think about it. It's environments, themes and style stuck to the source material (minus whenever Robotnik went "Milton Knight" on us), but also added the edgy dark idea and multiple woodland character count that SatAM was trying to do, yet doing it way better than them by (like already said) sticking to the source material, which also made it where there wasn't a huge problem sticking the games and the media together. If StC would've been a TV show, I could bet you it would've been consistently awesome, and remembered way more than SatAM ever has been.

    On-topic: Roboticization? Heck no. Badnikization? Definitely yes.

    Of course the difference between the two is that roboticization is turning the entire body into a super-mechafied version of itself, while "badnikization" (yay for self-coined terms) is simply putting creatures inside of seperately-existing robots where the creature acts as an organic battery. Not only is the badnik deal better because of it being what Sega intended, but it's also much better than the more gritty and gruesome roboticization idea.

    <!--quoteo(post=449752:date=May 1 2010, 06:38 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 1 2010, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449752">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm super surprised Archie never started Sonic from scratch again. I think a good part of Archie's readership were SatAM fans and Archie felt they needed to cater to them. From what I've seen of the more recent issues, there's much more of a SegaSonic influence than there was before. I'm sure that's been no easy ride for any of the writers. Especially for fear of having to deal with older fans who grew up on the SatAM based universe, as well as some of the previous Archie based canon. With SatAM nearing almost twenty years since its first air, the comic has moved on to be somewhat more representative of its original source (the games), and SatAM fans are beginning to feel less of a tickle in their memory banks when it comes to referencing those elements. I wonder what the comic fanbase consists of now? Is it mostly young kids or older fans?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They had their chance. Sonic #175. It shown what was supposedly Robotnik destroying everything related to the Archie/SatAMverse, including all the extra characters they introduced over the years through both the tv show and the comic series. The only characters left standing were Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy; left in a wasteland where they would start anew on an ongoing battle against Robotnik. Then one issue later we find out "oh hay they all just sorta were teleported into these here Egg Grapes hurp durp" and they rebuilt the city in a nanofortress and then added 10,000 more characters to the already-near-exploding-from-overload character cast in the comic. One issue of awesomeness, ultimate potential, and sheer bliss went to waste.

    Never again will I be fooled like that Archie, never again :argh:
     
  11. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

    Oldbie
    643
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449758:date=May 1 2010, 07:56 PM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ May 1 2010, 07:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449758">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=449752:date=May 1 2010, 06:38 PM:name=Mr. Pictures)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 1 2010, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449752">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm super surprised Archie never started Sonic from scratch again. I think a good part of Archie's readership were SatAM fans and Archie felt they needed to cater to them. From what I've seen of the more recent issues, there's much more of a SegaSonic influence than there was before. I'm sure that's been no easy ride for any of the writers. Especially for fear of having to deal with older fans who grew up on the SatAM based universe, as well as some of the previous Archie based canon. With SatAM nearing almost twenty years since its first air, the comic has moved on to be somewhat more representative of its original source (the games), and SatAM fans are beginning to feel less of a tickle in their memory banks when it comes to referencing those elements. I wonder what the comic fanbase consists of now? Is it mostly young kids or older fans?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They had their chance. Sonic #175. It shown what was supposedly Robotnik destroying everything related to the Archie/SatAMverse, including all the extra characters they introduced over the years through both the tv show and the comic series. The only characters left standing were Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy; left in a wasteland where they would start anew on an ongoing battle against Robotnik. Then one issue later we find out "oh hay they all just sorta were teleported into these here Egg Grapes hurp durp" and they rebuilt the city in a nanofortress and then added 10,000 more characters to the already-near-exploding-from-overload character cast in the comic. One issue of awesomeness, ultimate potential, and sheer bliss went to waste.

    Never again will I be fooled like that Archie, never again :argh:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I can imagine that was really scary, not only for older fans, but Archie too. Their sales would plummet had they gone with it! Unless Archie likes to make their fanbase wet their pants.
     
  12. Glisp

    Glisp

    That one weird guy that does stuff. Member
    1,278
    1
    16
    Bloomington, IN
    None at the moment I'm afraid.
    Roboticization is different in Sonic Underground. People get turned into Cyborgs rather than full robots. However, they still lose their free will.
     
  13. The KKM

    The KKM

    Welcome to the nExt level Member
    2,179
    29
    28
    Portugal
    IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic books
    <!--quoteo(post=449768:date=May 2 2010, 12:46 AM:name=Glisp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Glisp @ May 2 2010, 12:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449768">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Roboticization is different in Sonic Underground. People get turned into Cyborgs rather than full robots. However, they still lose their free will.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I seem to recall robot Uncle Chuck on Underground.
     
  14. Greg the Cat

    Greg the Cat

    I'm gonna draw it! Misfit
    1,290
    0
    0
    A Zone Unknown of Title
    Comics from the Mind of Yours Truly, A little workshop of animation, Sonic FreeRunner
    <!--quoteo(post=449261:date=Apr 30 2010, 05:08 PM:name=David The Lurker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (David The Lurker @ Apr 30 2010, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449261">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But focusing solely on roboticization, what always bothered me was the fact that Robotnik just stole this technology outright. In the games, he is a mad genius, and everything he comes up with is his idea (aside from all the "Monster of the Week" beings he has resurrected...and Emeral. But who cares about him). Eggman has too big of an ego to just go about and use other people's ideas and robots and inventions to take over the world. He wants to establish the "Eggman Empire," not "generic polluted city." And even in the games, Eggman never really...wanted to pollute everything. Or kill everything. He just wanted everyone to love and admire his great intellect. Sure, maybe it wasn't very clear in the Genesis games because of story limitations, but Sonic Adventure should have proved that beyond a doubt. Yes, I know Adventure didn't exist back then. But I guess I just find it hard to resolve some people's love for "Dr. Robotnik" when his game-counterpart is a completely different person..

    The Roboticizer was just yet another misinterpretation of one of the fundamental aspects of the Sonic franchise, and while it could be an interesting concept on its own, just isn't compatible with what makes Sonic...well, Sonic. You throw that in there, and what you get is a show that just happens to have Sonic in it. Not a show about Sonic and his world. Honestly, having a series that had no plans on introducing Knuckles or Metal Sonic or Amy Rose...I just don't get that. (Still bothers me Sonic X never bothered to use Metal Sonic in any context, but that's neither here nor there).

    I guess this is the part where I say despite all this, I still own the show on DVD. And immediately give anyone ammunition for saying my point is null and void.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Um.... You used post 1998 material to say that the Robotnik of the games didn't steal tech to make his plans come true... BUT, you're forgetting a fan favorite game.... Sonic Adventure 2.

    Did you forget that he picked up on his grandfather's journals and stole his tech outright to... well, what else(?)... conquer the world. Are we forgetting that he woke up his grandfather's creation to aid him in world conquest? Come on now, that was a really obvious thing to ignore, man.

    Oh and about that pollution problem.....

    [​IMG]

    I mean... I'm not the only one seeing that smoke billowing from that factory back there, am I? If anything, it looks like Robotropolis.... and Scrap Brain IS Robotnik's lair as well.

    Actually, I heard there were plans to include Knuckles in the series... They just didn't get to go any further than Season 2. No plans to do so? Stop making assumptions. Hurst would HAVE to do it. I'm pretty sure he knew that.

    Straying from source material... Hahaha, you guys are funny. The show is actually quite close to what one could figure from the original games. Robotnik has his city in the Scrap Brain Zone called Robotropolis, you've got Freedom Fighters based on the animals straight from the games ('cept old Antoine), you've got the Big Bad Doctor causing misery to the animals forcing them to work for him.

    Thing is... It still has a premise very similar to the games. You can't deny it. All that was missing was the varied locations and the pretty colors and surreality of the flora and design.

    I don't know if it's better than Sonic the Comic, now... (haven't read it)... BUT, you guys just aren't giving this show enough credit.
     
  15. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Yeah, but it's very loosely based on the games. Beyond what you mentioned, there is nothing in common with the two canons, besides Sonic is blue, there's a fox named Tails theres a ring in one way or another. The lighthearted and surreal feeling is what makes up a good majority of the franchise's appeal, and they completely removed that in SatAM, which unsurprisingly led to the show being a hollow shell of a Sonic canon.

    And if you haven't read Sonic the Comic to compare the two, I'd say do it TO it, man.

    Oh yeah, I went there.
     
  16. Mr. Pictures

    Mr. Pictures

    Oldbie
    643
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449806:date=May 1 2010, 10:35 PM:name=Greg the Cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Greg the Cat @ May 1 2010, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449806">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Straying from source material... Hahaha, you guys are funny. The show is actually quite close to what one could figure from the original games. Robotnik has his city in the Scrap Brain Zone called Robotropolis, you've got Freedom Fighters based on the animals straight from the games ('cept old Antoine), you've got the Big Bad Doctor causing misery to the animals forcing them to work for him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not wrongly accusing you, but where was it said that Robotnik's headquarters was Scrap Brain? Maybe it was in one of the manuals? I'm not sure anyone saw much of Robotnik's "polluting" influence in many other aspects of the games. Maybe Oil Ocean Zone or some of Sonic Spinball? But I'd say the Robotnik in the games is pretty tidy when it comes to spreading his machinations. The bit about the Freedom Fighters being based off game animals is probably true, but they didn't exactly form a coalition with you to fight Robotnik. I agree with the part about making the animals miserable, but I think it's been stepped way up with the whole turning flesh and blood into metal. It was supposed to be kind of a moot point that you'd never actually see how the animals reacted to being inside the robots or the process in the games. Even if this is based on what little source material was available, I'd still think it's pretty removed.
     
  17. Rainer

    Rainer

    Member
    383
    0
    0
    Let's see what kind of advantages roboticisation can offer:

    1. Complete immunity from dementia-related illnesses such as Alzheimer's Disease, meaning your full personality could be kept online indefinitely.
    2. No more genetic disorders or ill-fit gene variants.
    3. Ability to increase intelligence to any arbitrary value.
    4. Possible option for immortality and cure for death.
    5. Resilience to things like muscular dystrophy can make space travel more likely without worrying on how to simulate gravitational acceleration.
    6. No more having to worry about food frees up a lot of land for farming and ultimately does good for the environment.
    7. Ability to capitalise on things that natural neural networks are weak on like fast computation and make the use of external calculators and CAS obsolete.

    I honestly don't see anything wrong with any of that, and even if it would cause the loss of free will, the fact that there are procedures that can recover that makes the loss extremely trivial to the above benefits. Sign me up!
     
  18. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

    Member
    1,318
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449806:date=May 2 2010, 04:35 AM:name=Greg the Cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Greg the Cat @ May 2 2010, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449806">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]

    I mean... I'm not the only one seeing that smoke billowing from that factory back there, am I? If anything, it looks like Robotropolis.... and Scrap Brain IS Robotnik's lair as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    SatAM Robotropolis was always grey in colour. I spy yellow, red and colourfull robot minions amidst that sea of grey, something unthinkable in SatAM. It's still a fair point.
     
  19. FinalBeyond

    FinalBeyond

    Member
    1,569
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=449806:date=May 2 2010, 04:35 AM:name=Greg the Cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Greg the Cat @ May 2 2010, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449806">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Straying from source material... Hahaha, you guys are funny. The show is actually quite close to what one could figure from the original games. Robotnik has his city in the Scrap Brain Zone called Robotropolis, you've got Freedom Fighters based on the animals straight from the games ('cept old Antoine), you've got the Big Bad Doctor causing misery to the animals forcing them to work for him.

    Thing is... It still has a premise very similar to the games. You can't deny it. All that was missing was the varied locations and the pretty colors and surreality of the flora and design.

    I don't know if it's better than Sonic the Comic, now... (haven't read it)... BUT, you guys just aren't giving this show enough credit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I struggle to see what's close to the games, other than the presence of Sonic and Tails. Sonic is a static soldier in a civil war between two unelected dictators, one an animal, the other a mixture of his game nemesis and The Claw from Inspector Gadget. They're fighting on a planet called Mobius, a dull gritty brown and dark blue land, and mainly stick to one forest and one city.

    Compare that to the games, where Sonic is a roamer, travelling around the world, often thwarting the schemes of the bumbling but intelligent Eggman/Robotnik as he goes, travelling through a variety of regions with surreal landscapes, huge cities, sprawling colourful vistas, and much more.
     
  20. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=449823:date=May 1 2010, 11:59 PM:name=Rainer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rainer @ May 1 2010, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=449823">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's see what kind of advantages roboticisation can offer:

    1. Complete immunity from dementia-related illnesses such as Alzheimer's Disease, meaning your full personality could be kept online indefinitely.
    2. No more genetic disorders or ill-fit gene variants.
    3. Ability to increase intelligence to any arbitrary value.
    4. Possible option for immortality and cure for death.
    5. Resilience to things like muscular dystrophy can make space travel more likely without worrying on how to simulate gravitational acceleration.
    6. No more having to worry about food frees up a lot of land for farming and ultimately does good for the environment.
    7. Ability to capitalise on things that natural neural networks are weak on like fast computation and make the use of external calculators and CAS obsolete.

    I honestly don't see anything wrong with any of that, and even if it would cause the loss of free will, the fact that there are procedures that can recover that makes the loss extremely trivial to the above benefits. Sign me up!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, but who in the world would you trust to ensure that your free will comes back? The ones who have full knowledge of the procedure and would know how to exploit it for their benefit?

    Anyway, enjoy your new body.
    [​IMG]
    No, not that one, the one next to it.
    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.