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Sega Saturn interesting finds

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by TeaTime_Beta, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Tiddles

    Tiddles

    Diamond Dust Tech Member
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    Been playing with a real Saturn today, and confirmed that the glowing spheres ring issue occurs there too. You can see a couple of rings above you at the start, but by the time you get back up there, they're gone. At the top, some rings mysteriously appear, and if you then fall down again, the others are back.

    Also, the NTSC-J version seems to have a much more serious bug: the snow never stops falling after either boss in Icecap. This causes serious object loading issues of the kind in ORKAL's video, and it's fairly easy to get into a situation where you can't complete act 2 or have a seriously difficult time doing so - so I guess this proves that while the VDP sprite limits aren't an issue any more in Jam, the object RAM limits are still very much in play. This is fixed in the NTSC-U/C version, and I assume the PAL-E version too, though I haven't tested it.

    This is all from a fairly quick test too! I wonder what other nastiness lurks within. Seems strange to think this is sometimes regarded as the "best" version...
     
  2. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

    Beta of Sokyodai Member
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    I really don't know if uploading certain files on the disc (Minus the file that loads all the files together.) would be breaking the rules or not. I do realize there is a rule on piracy/warez, and I really do not want to break that rule.

    However, because not everyone that would possibly be interested has access to a working Sega Saturn (and Sonic Jam to boot), I think uploading specific files would be useful for a more in depth look. (Because I certainly don't know how to dissect the files with anything other than a Hex editor or TLP.
     
  3. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    I have the sonic Jam moldels, Just found them on my hard drive.
    However there are no UV unwraps , and everything is a real mess.
    maybe I will clean them up and make a release.

    however first we would need all the textures lol.
    Edit: I started ripping some textures for buildings and such from VDP1
     
  4. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Don't remember seeing this bird in Jam.
    [​IMG]
    Anyone care to check? My Jam CD is packed away and I'm to lazy to find it right now.
     
  5. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

    Beta of Sokyodai Member
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    Strange. The only birds I recall being in Sonic World are the Flickies, and I don't think they use that particular model. (I mean, all they really consist of are some billboarded flat panels and rotating flat panels.)
     
  6. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Here are some other strange objects I just cleaned up.
    I don't think we will be able to rip the textures for unused models using an emulator.
    must be another way to extract the files from the game disk.
    [​IMG]

    Also Uv mapped and re-textured these by hand.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

    Beta of Sokyodai Member
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    Now, on the note of those models, how did you rip them in the first place? I don't even know what files they're located in, and I'd like to rip them. (Especially the Sonic Model.)
     
  8. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    ...Pig Picky and Flicky heads?
     
  9. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Sorry, I got them from SANik some years back.
    You may want to contact him.
    I also have the sonic model. Its in pieces though.

    Edit:
    When I'm done with the tedious clean up, and re-texturing than I can post it up here for you guys.
     
  10. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

    Beta of Sokyodai Member
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    Right. I'll contact Sanik as soon as I can about those model rips. I'm not going to stop this research until we know just as much about the Sega Saturn Sonic games as we do about the others.

    Looking in on it, that Flicky head IS used in-game for the Flicky models.
     
  11. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Captured the parts that were clipped off in Sonicstudiums screen.

    It looks like we wont be able to capture all the VDP2 textures with Satourne. There has got to be another way to view the remaining missing textures.
    Anyways,,,,That's it for me today, I cant go on any longer.
    DOWNLOAD NOW!
     
  12. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

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    Thank you, Andrew75. I wish I could have been more useful in this, but my computer's screen simply isn't tall enough. (And Satourne's inability to refresh the image is pretty sucky too.)

    What confuses me is that it loads up almost every required tile for the VDP2 background.
    The parts that do not seem to be available are the areas that are underneath the interactive models. (Almost all of the tiles for the areas directly under or around the buildings are either completely absent or only have the outside edges available.) Everything else is road tile and shadow edging. Despite these missing pieces, I've been able to piece together a bit of the map together, substituting filler pieces where the missing tiles should be.

    [​IMG]

    It's only about a quarter of the map, really. I'm still putting things together, and I apologize for any inaccuracies. My Sonic Jam disc doesn't want to work on Satourne OR SSF, so I've had to look at videos showing Sonic World.
     
  13. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Ahh man,, what a shame......
    Anyhow I have most of the level textured already, cant wait to be able to get my hands on the rest of the ground textures.
    may be able to finish working with what I have tomorrow.

    Also it while playing the game it looks like they combined vertex colors in a blend with some of the textures to simulate lighting. (if your viewing on a Saturn its noticeable)
    some emu's don't show this effect.
     
  14. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    This is a bit off topic here but I found this blender script that can export Saturn format models. perhaps it can be of use to someone here at retro.
    http://segaxtreme.net/community/topic/13160-3d-sgl-export-script-for-blender/
    Maybe... it could be reverse engineered to import Saturn models into blender?
     
  15. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Okay guys , Here is your Jam model. ( sorry did not get to this sooner, was working on AXSX stuff.
    Credit and many many thanks to SANik for his model rip that I found on some forums a while back. (can't remember where, as its been many years.)
    Without him this wouldn't have been possible.
    And credits to myself for the polygon clean up, UV mapping, limb re-positioning, Texture ripping and placement, and old-school rigging.
    Enjoy!
    [​IMG]

    Now if we can get the rest of the textures ( the ground textures) I will release the rest of the models fully texture-mapped and cleaned up.
    Including some that had to be built from scratch, since they couldn't be found anywhere else.
    Everything is already finished and ready to go except the ground.

    ( the tease)
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    OHHHHH, If you can get the playfield fully ripped, I'd be happy to port it to the source engine. The Sonic Jam play field looks perfect to be a sonic themed build or Roll play map.
     
  17. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    lol that would be cool, but without the final VDP2 textures it will stay unfinished unfortunately.
    I Was hoping that I could coax one of our many Sonic retro Super-Hackers (tech members) to do the job, but none have bit. Its a real shame.
    You guys call yourself hackers ?! (Shakes finger) Why not jump in and explore new grounds ? We've seen enough Genesis game hacking.

    (Off topic)
    Imagin making A sonic Jam hack featuring new levels. Now that would be kick ass. but yeah , Everyone is stuck doing generations mods these days. Where is the challenge in that ?
    ( I'm being sarcastic by the way)
     
  18. TeaTime_Beta

    TeaTime_Beta

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    While I would rather not talk about other types of hacking here, I do have to agree with what Andrew75 is saying.

    We're having problems ripping the VDP2 BG from Jam. To be honest we've only been able to rip from about a quarter to a half of the full ground parts. (Meaning no clouds!) Yabause provides a better environment for running the game and looking at the models for reference, but its VDP2 viewer only shows what's on screen as it is. (In its tilted and distorted form rather than a clean rip.) I really wish I could find some of SANiK's old tools, if only for a reference to build my own.
     
  19. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    If I may ask, what it the render setting of the emulator? Open Gl? a version of Direct X?
     
  20. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    for Yabause its Open GL. It also has a choice for software rendering.