SEGA launches the Sonic 2020 project, promises to release Sonic news on the 20th of every month

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DreamsComeBlue, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Getting Sonic Team to make a pure 2D title might give us another Sonic 4... I'd rather they stick to boost games.
     
  2. Blue Blood

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    I mean, Forces and Colours are already like mostly 2D anyway, and they're supposedly 3D boost games. So like, what's the difference?
     
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  3. jbr

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    I like your optimism and I hope you're correct, but to me this seems unlikely. Sonic Team didn't need Mania to learn from because they've had their very own games, Sonic 1 - 3, to learn from, and the result of that was Sonic 4. Historically they have always shown a complete misunderstanding of what Sonic actually is, instead assuming that as long as it's a platform game with Sonic in it then job done.
     
  4. Aerosol

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    The difference is that the 2D boost sections can't compare to Rush's worst sections.
     
  5. Blue Blood

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    Oh, I'm being facetious. Sonic Team's efforts are incredibly weak. Unleashed and Generations are the high points of the boost gameplay, in both 2D and 3D, and both of them are really flawed in concept and execution. Colours is a 2D, stiff and blocky snooze cruise. And then we come Forces... In a vacuum, Forces in stunning in its relentless pursuit of mediocrity. And compared to what came before, Forces is embarrassing. Forget trying to compare it to Rush, Forces takes the worst of the preceding boost games. The most bare-bones 3D and over-reliance on uninspired 2D, what can only be described as either the laziest or the most brain-dead level design I've ever seen, the shortest levels with no substance to them and the removal of features from previous boost games. All this underlined by making Sonic control poorly, with a useless double jump, no air control and totally botched movement speeds/acceleration. Let's not even talk about Lost World.

    So I went off on a tangent there. My main point was supposed to be that whilst I agree with Overlord in that Sonic Team attempting a fully 2D or fully Classic game would likely be disastrous, the boost games are more crap than they are good. And with Forces being their latest endeavour, I really don't want to see them going back to it. I guess I'm worried about seeing anything that Sonic Team put out at the end of the day. My faith is just that low.
     
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  6. Aerosol

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    I mean, that's a "secret" level that's supposed to just be a single little gimmick showcase thing. Not a strong defense of it but hey :V

    I don't really have faith in game developers these days. I do look forward to seeing what they come up with though, and intend to stick with whatever my first impressions are. They're usually right when it comes to Sonic Team.
     
  7. Blue Blood

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    The whole "one hand thing" is a bit of an exaggeration because the player is making relatively clever use of the quick step for movement and the boost in its own is forwards movement, but the low level of interactivity and the way the game plays itself is plain to see.

    I too look forward to seeing what ST come out with, but yeah first impressions are pretty accurate when we've been through this song and dance so many times before.

    So that this post remains kind of slightly in topic, I hope ST is using 2020 and all of this time without any upcoming Sonic games to really understand where the series has gone wrong this past decade and strive to improve it. Whatever news they have, I hope it's pretty small. With any luck they're just keeping the franchise alive with a middling presence at the moment (the movie helps) whilst game development is going hard behind the scenes.
     
  8. Beltway

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    To piggyback on the recent discussion, all of the above and more is why I look on with amusement at other Sonic fans losing their minds at the lack of Sonic news. For me, no Sonic games whatsoever honestly is the better outcome than the immediate alternative.

    It honestly sucks having to write that because there’s definitely other alternatives in mind as to what could be done with Sonic’s future, but they all have seem to have remarkably high amounts of implausibility. If Sega wanted to have other studios with pedigrees design their own Sonic games alongside ST or take over the series entirely, it would had happened long ago. And I doubt it’s something they’re considering even with Mania’s success.

    I guess that’s a fair rebuttal to make, but then again, it’s from the same game that had the highly previewed “it’s only the first level!1” Sunset Heights turn out to be the midway point of the main campaign.
     
  9. Pengi

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    The low interactivity is the key thing. The video does a good job of highlighting how unengaging the game can be. The "lol one hand" angle he's gone for, however, isn't the epic own it's presented as. Map "jump" to the L trigger and you can play Sonic Mania with one hand. Simple controls were always a strength of the series when it was at its best, and with the controller options available today those games can be played by people who only have the use of one hand.
     
  10. Aerosol

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    There's simple controls and then there's "give the player a lot of options but design the level so that they don't really have to engage with any of the challenges".
     
  11. Blue Blood

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    Can you even call them challenges at that point?

    "Boost to win" was always a pretty pejorative and inaccurate term, missing the point for the most part until you took a more nuanced approach and looked at the fact that games were largely designed with the expectation that you would boost the majority of the time. And then Forces happened.
     
  12. Beltway

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    (1:24) "Often with games, there are many moments where one must take time to aim before shooting. But in this game, you simply press and hold the button to attack. So you can really enjoy ultimately just dashing like a maniac through the stages."

    (2:33) "Instead of sticking to Sonic's traditional style of gameplay, we decided to design the game to be as simple and enjoyable as possible; focusing more on the excitement of dashing through the stages, without having to think about, you know, complex game controls."

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  14. Blue Blood

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    Quote boxes are a disaster on this board these days. Why does shit keep getting hidden within them?

    Anyway, that's pretty much exactly my point about "can you even call them challenges". Sure that's what they are, but when the games are designed to be as ungame-like as possible... Like, what the fuck? Forces has a lot of conscious thought behind its design. Sonic Team even gave a talk at a conference in 2017 about level design in games and used Forces as their example. It shows you just how balls their thought process is. Some highlights include the following:
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    I find it fascinating that Sonic Team talk about these scenarios as that one is any better than the other. The fact is they're all really bad, sometimes the "before" is less bad than the "after". Simple object placement isn't enough to fix the level design philosophies of Forces!

    Just gonna say... there is no input.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  15. FollOw

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    Maybe, just maybe....They will take inspiration from Sonic Mania :V
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  16. SystemsReady

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    At this point, Sonic Team's efforts are mediocre in a way that's kind of soul crushing if they led it anywhere near any of the good points of Sonic (so uh, I dread a Mania 2 by them), and I would like the series to either never give them a mainline title again or just stop entirely. I would really like an explicit pivot to Mania-like games by other developers, or just keep Sonic a feel good spinoff brand. Imagine if they game Sumo more resources and just had the next set of titles be good racing games.

    I honestly hate what Sonic Team has attempted over the past few years - not because doing anything new is bad, I just hate the result. Sonic being captured and tortured by Eggman is cringey fanfic material to me, and I'm tired of their games focusing on places or aesthetics that draw from early Sonic titles in lieu of actually knowing what the "Sonic aesthetic" is - because they don't seem to have one because they keep changing what they want to do from game to game while somehow keeping the same gameplay design forever, which is insane and would be kind of the holy grail for most devs that these people have somehow stumbled into by accident with the most mediocre gameplay loop imaginable.
     
  17. Roxie Mika

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    it feels like sonic team has mostly just been ahead of the curve in terms of turning games into ~cinematic experiences~ with less than no substance
    funny, they get lambasted (as they rightly should) for it, but AAA games from massive major studios do it and they become beloved bestsellers
    even though nobody can ever seem to describe what they've just played after they finish playing such games :eng101:
     
  18. So that Sonic Station Live stream happened, and nothing of note was shown off. They were basically just advertising games that were already out and talking about upcoming merchandise that they'll be selling. The IDW Sonic comics are also getting released in Japan, apparently.
     
  19. Overlord

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    One thing that's worth noting - while the next stream is the last Wednesday of the month, like this one was.... it's also the next day after that conference Sega is attending.
     
  20. The Joebro64

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    https://www.destructoid.com/sega-sa...al-is-going-to-take-a-bit-longer-592112.phtml

    Aaron Webber says that we're going to have to wait a bit longer for a game announcement, but that the wait will be "worth it". Oh well.

    He also says that they're giving Sonic Team a lot more development time this time around and confirms that's why there aren't yearly releases anymore. I'm feeling inclined to (sort of?) trust Aaron because, you know, it's Aaron, but who knows.