Sega Ages: Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Out Now on Switch

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Taylor, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Diablohead

    Diablohead

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    I like how Sonic 1 ages added in the megaplay rom with an online scoreboard for it, I had a fun month trying to top the leaderboards in that.

    Sonic 2's 100 ring challenge sucks because it's only for EHZ1, if they added it for several stages, maybe something like how sonic 2 multiplayer has a few stages to pick from, I would have said it's a great extra, but it's not when limited to one act. SAYING THAT it's a shame 2 player is not online like the XBLA version had 10+ years ago.

    The ring count total from start to end is cool but it's something I forget is even a thing, the hud for it when enabled is too big.
     
  2. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Pretty much. The challenges in the SEGA AGES are a nice touch, but still basically just a minigame limited to one single act, something akin to what NES Remix has hundreds of takes on. Nothing on a new mode to play the whole game through like Jam/Android version's Time Attack mode.

    The Ring Count is interesting as a side challenge, but still something applied to the normal campaign.

    I admit I found it a shame the SEGA AGES version didn't boost VS Mode remotely. You can't even use Drop Dash in it (likely because lack of flying for Tails would make it unfair), it's EXACTLY the same. Since display functions are a large reason many levels don't work on it I was hoping they could use their emulator tricks to use a different display function for split screen.
     
  3. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I'm aware of this. I myself am a CRT enthusiast and play games on a CRT regularly. But this has nothing to do with the main appeal of base Sonic 1 and 2. That's what I was saying. What you're talking about here is the appeal of playing older games on CRT televisions with composite video. You're initial post was interjecting into a conversation about which modern ports of Sonic 1 and 2 are better or preferred, none of which anyone is likely to be playing on a CRT. Again, the appeal of base Sonic 1 and 2 is that they won't contain the numerous changes made by the Taxman remakes.

    Preferring the games' original aspect ratio is not a novelty. Both games have been altered in the Taxman remakes to account for the widescreen conversion. I can think of multiple boss arenas that are actively made worse. The games were originally designed for a 4:3 field of view and that can't be argued with.

    Speaking of boss arenas, it annoys me that the remake of Sonic 1 doesn't let you cheap-shot the Green Hill boss.

    There are more changes than the removal of the spike pit. There are two layout/object placement changes I can think of in Chemical Plant off the top of my head. I don't like changes to the zones because under the right circumstances it forces the player to play the game differently than they're used.

    Also, the Hidden Palace boss is awful. It doesn't match any of the original Sonic 2 bosses in style or basic pattern, and it just isn't fun.

    You've apparently misunderstood what I was saying. You said that the main appeal of base Sonic 1 and 2 was the existence of visual effects created by composite video color blending on dither patterns. I disagreed with the notion that such effects have anything to do with the appeal of the original roms over the Taxman remake. That is all. Your analogy here isn't in any way related to what I said.
     
  4. Dodongobuster

    Dodongobuster

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    You're moving the goalpost, the comparison was not explicitly of software versions, but of Sonic 1 and 2 on different platforms.

    Nonetheless, you don't need to play on a CRT to get most of the blurring from composite video. The blurring is very clear to me when I played Star Fox 1 on the SNES and then started playing the emulated Nintendo Switch version so I could use savestates to repeat a couple boss battles I enjoyed. I'm completely indifferent for Star Fox because it looks jagged on any setup, but HD ruins Sonic and Donkey Kong Country. In the case of the latter, it's so bad that it's like the scene in Wizard of Oz where they all see the great Wizard is just a man hiding behind a curtain; it completely spoils the illusion of 3D graphics.

    I don't know about you, but I feel ripped off when I can cheese through a major part of a game I paid for with little to no effort.

    I thought that most of the Sonic 2 bosses were terrible in comparison to Sonic 1 and Sonic 3 specifically because you could bounce on them 8 times before they even have a chance to do their first attack. See my point above about feeling ripped off.

    Refer to my first point about moving the goalpost. Furthermore, I will add that the original hardware is the definitive way to play the original software. All the emulated releases of the unmodified ROMs contain emulation bugs that compromise the sound in some irritating way. The total experience is most certainly relevant.

    But if you want to throw away an argument in support of the notion that unmodified Sonic 1 and 2 are better on a Sega Genesis with an old CRT TV using composite video than the Taxman remakes on modern hardware with a modern HDTV, be my guest. :)
     
  5. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I didn't move any goalposts.

    The entire preceding conversation was about modern ports of the games. Laura's post said that she sometimes wants to play base Sonic 1 and opts for the M2 port as a "purist" choice for that purpose. You responded to that post saying that the main appeal of base Sonic 1 and 2 is composite video color blending on dither patterns. That has nothing to do with what Laura was talking about and has nothing to do with the primary appeal of playing base Sonic 1 and 2 (in this case by use of the M2 Nintendo Switch port) as opposed to the Taxman remakes. The Nintendo Switch does not output composite video, so I doubt that Laura plays the M2 port because of composite video blending.

    Your statement didn't make any sense and I responded to it because I am literally the demographic you are discussing. I have never preferred the Taxman remakes because they changed things that make the overall experience worse for me, despite adding some interesting quality of life improvements. The base games appeal to me over the Taxman versions because they are the unaltered experience. That is the main appeal of base Sonic 1 and 2. I can play base Sonic 1 or 2 on any kind of system or display and the appeal of that over the Taxman version remains the same. Even if they are ported or emulated, they are still basically the unchanged games and function in virtually the same way.

    What you described was the appeal of composite video signals, which is not inherently related to a conversation about different ports of Sonic 1 and 2. And that's what I said in my first response to you.

    Also, just to note, whether or not you like the changes in the Taxman remakes doesn't impact the fact that changes do exist, and to some degree they do change the way the game is played.
     
  6. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    I admit in terms of compromising extras with a still authentic experience, the SEGA AGES version is probably the best choice (Jam has Time Attack and difficulty settings that edit the levels, but also some quality differences due to being a VERY early port).

    I guess I'm just kinda lethargic to 'authenticity' since as mentioned, if I wanted an 'original release' loyal version of Sonic 2, my alternatives aren't exactly low anyway, they rerelease the original version CONSTANTLY.

    I do hope at least M2 continue dabbling in emulation tweaking and modifying. SEGA AGES was already an enhancement of their 3D lineup and keeps many of the same extras along with new ones, maybe we'll get another line that adds even MORE while still having the choice of a console loyal experience in there too.

    But seriously, they NEED to add Tails' flying for me to even consider it a definitive Sonic 2.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  7. Dodongobuster

    Dodongobuster

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    That just throws any attempt at objectivity out the window. Your first response to me wasn't "I like base Sonic 1 and 2 better". Rather, it was "base Sonic 1 and 2 are better". You started off by listing the reasons you think the original is better, I disputed those reasons as being either bad gameplay mechanics or major quality of life downgrades that don't hold up in 2021, and now you're retreating to "It's better because it's the original".

    As for whether or not composite video is relevant, my argument about dithering supported your opinion that the Taxman version is inferior to begin with, so it is fair to say you're quibbling over semantics. If you want to dispute my claim that you can't evaluate software without considering the hardware employed to use it, then great- I'd be happy to hear what you have to say. If you just want to start a debate over what exactly the conversation should be about, ain't nobody got time for that!

    You like the original solely for the novelty of playing the original. That's absolutely okay. You don't need to establish the originals as better games to have that opinion and simultaneously keep your credibility as a human with a working brain.

    It's funny that you mention the easy and normal difficulties in Sonic Jam, I wish there was also a hard mode. Sonic 1-3&K are very forgiving games, so I didn't really have much of a use for an easy mode as a 6 year-old in 1999. The idea of slightly changed layout/object placement for multiple difficulty levels was such a cool idea that never got a chance to live up to its potential.

    ... I guess that's where the past 20 years of fan ROM hacks come in.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  8. SystemsReady

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    Yeah like, it's honestly really hard for me to clamour for "authenticity" when Sega is literally selling the original ROM of Sonic 2 on Steam, right now, for like 0.99.
     
  9. E-122-Psi

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    I should maybe add that the possible reason the liberties are accepted with the remake are because a lot of the extras are foundational ones, ie. things people think SHOULD have been in the original version of the game in the first place.

    Tails flying, a more palpable 2 player mode, even a unused level from beta stages, even some of the path changes kinda fit into this since they're for areas that look suspiciously unfinished in the original.

    Obviously some key tweaks to how the game works are needed to make this stuff work sometimes, but many can take that because it expands on what was good about Sonic 2 in the first place.

    To compare Jam and SEGA AGES' extras, while appreciated, are more obtuse.